Rant: The DDP is ruining everything!

[kaytieeldr]

I want to be able to dine at fine restaurants with great food and great service and not surrounded by hoards of diners waiting to jump on my table and servers rushing me through a meal.

Now I'm really confused - at which fine restaurants should diners expect to be surrounded by hordes of diners waiting to jump on their tables?

This whole DDP thing really saddens me as the quality of the individual restraunts was one of the major WDW things to do. Most of the signature restraunts require better attire than one would wear to a park.

Require? Yes. Demand? Nope. I was told by one Signature restaurant server that this restaurant dropped enforcement of the dress code based on Guest complaints. That's not to say they don't expect Guests to dress appropriately - but they're not turning away men in t-shirts, either.

No offense, but twice, big deal! Are you the person keeping WDW in business?

No! People like me are! With my DVC, my annual passes, my 60 plus trips in 30 years.

First Timer specifically? No. But the millions of visitors LIKE the First Timer family each year? Yeah, just maybe... think about it. DVC members keep DVC in business (and yes, I know, Disney owns the DVC properties - but much of what each Member pays is for, well, the buildings, the staff,,, separate from, of course, annual dues which pay for upkeep). Annual Passes? A person paying $462 for an AP and visiting 360 days that year isn't really keeping Disney in business with the $1.28 per days' admission NEARLY to the degree that 36 Guests, each using every day of their ten-day hoppers at $283.29 (for a total outlay of $10,198.04) are, with the $28.33 they're each paying each day... or the 360 Guests who each purchase a one-day base pass at $70+ per day....

You can book the dining along with a room code.

Absolutely. You just couldn't combine the limited-run free dining promotion with a code.

 

[deltachi8]

This is a tough thread.
On one hand you get a great value.
On the other hand you get cheaper quality.

It is very tough because both your statements are subjective. Some view the DDP as a great value, others do not. Some think quality is slipping, others think this statement is over-blown.

When things are subjective, it is never an easy argument.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

Yes, I am offended. I was dicussing the convenience of the plan and because of it AND THE ATTRACTIONS at WDW, and other offerings I am going back a second time. Not because of FINE DINING - which I can get every single day on any block surrounding my work location. So for me the FINE DINING issue is on the bottom of the totem pole.

If you aren't interested in fine dining, and you like to get a large amount of food for a small amount of money, I can see how you would like the dining plan, but I am also hoping you can see the other side.

Imagine that you are a person with annual passes (like me) who has done most of the rides and shows and enjoys going at a leisurely pace and relishes fine dining as one of her top three priorities. When I go to WDW, I want to take in the atmosphere, relax and discover new things. For me, discovering new things includes new restaurants. In my past trips, I have loved returning to old favorites like Kona and finding new places like Jiko.

For me, dining is high up on my totem pole. Everyone's totem poles are different and whether they are in WDW for rides, shows, shopping, resorts, food or anything else, why shouldn't they expect quality? I am not *wrong* for my priorities.

We cannot get food of the same quality as past trips. Many of my favorite menu items are gone. Others have considerably shrunk, or have poorer presentation. Whenever I see those plates, it makes me sad. It's like looking at a favorite place that has been destroyed. I don't have any option to get those back, but I am still paying the same price as I used to. Can you see how we feel cheated?

First timers and WDW devotees alike deserve a wonderful Disney experience. No one deserves "better" than another, but for a loyal "guest" who has spent a considerably percentage of his/her salary in WDW, to be put in the position of never tasting your favorite dishes again, paying the same amount or more, and getting less and watching people throw plate after plate of food away since it's so much they just can't finish it is extremely frustrating. We just want to pay for the kinds of dishes we have grown to love from our favorite place. We don't want to vacation elsewhere. We don't want to eat vast amounts of inferior food. We don't want to have to suddenly rent a car and venture to Orlando or beyond to find fine dining. We used to get it at "home" in our favorite place- Disney.

I don't begrudge anyone the opportunity to enjoy free dining or the DDP, but modifications and adjustments need to be made to bring back some of the magic for a rather large segment of WDW guests who like me, would like to enjoy the quality we used to get. If people who had never eaten lobster before in their lives were suddenly ordering tails left and right and it got too expensive, we can understand, but why remove the dish? Can't we have a few items excluded from the DDP or available for an extra price. When I did the Fantasmic Dining Package, I had to pay an extra $2 to get the Coffee Tartufo for dessert. Why can't there be something like that to accomodate everyone? Why did all the sizes need to shrink? If we're paying OOP, can't we get the "old" portion size?

Rather than have this degrade into a debate over which guests Disney should consider more important, or completely bash or glorify DDP, why not just admit that it was a good idea with flawed implementation that needs to be fixed in order to live up to the Disney ideals. Maybe we can come up with suggestions and improvements and maybe communicate those to WDW and hopefully see some changes. I would much prefer to stand by Disney and fix this. The day I, as an AP holder, have to rent a car just to eat elsewhere will be an extremely sad one and I hope never to see it.

 

[jodifla]

Yes, I am offended. I was dicussing the convenience of the plan and because of it AND THE ATTRACTIONS at WDW, and other offerings I am going back a second time. Not because of FINE DINING - which I can get every single day on any block surrounding my work location. So for me the FINE DINING issue is on the bottom of the totem pole.

Well, of course you're not going back for the fine dining. You haven't experienced it! Many of the special touches that were there are gone now.

 

[lillygator]

Lulu - excellent post!

And while you can do the math all day long on the AP per day admission compared to a 10 day hopper...compare the $200 TS meals that those AP's are shelling out for on their multiple visits along with souvies, resort stays and everything else.

 

[CPer'sMom]

Lulu - excellent post!

Yes, thanks Lulu for that excellent post I so agree with what you stated.

It's hard for anyone going to Disney for the 1st (or 2nd) time and using the DDP to realize just what many of us are missing from our favorite WDW restaurants since they've never had the opportunity to do so. But that doesn't mean we're wrong to want places the way they "used to be".

 

[Lewisc]

There have been very few menu changes noted in the signature restaurants.
It's not clear which of the changes are directly a result of the dining plan, which changes are just normal menu changes and which may be a result of the restaurants popularity. Artist Pointe reduced the number of "exotic" menu items before the current dining plan was instituted.

There have been changes made to the one credit restaurants, some may be a result of the current dining plan but the food at LTT was cut back before the current dining plan. I would question how many of the one credit restaurants ever offered "fine dining".

V&A, Bistro, blueZoo, Shula's, new Italian restaurant in Swan and 3 or 4 fine restaurants in DTD. Even those very few posters who claim Disney has ruined the "signature" restaurants still have a nice selection of restaurants to chose from.

If you aren't interested in fine dining, and you like to get a large amount of food for a small amount of money, I can see how you would like the dining plan, but I am also hoping you can see the other side.

Imagine that you are a person with annual passes (like me) who has done most of the rides and shows and enjoys going at a leisurely pace and relishes fine dining as one of her top three priorities. When I go to WDW, I want to take in the atmosphere, relax and discover new things. For me, discovering new things includes new restaurants. In my past trips, I have loved returning to old favorites like Kona and finding new places like Jiko.

For me, dining is high up on my totem pole. Everyone's totem poles are different and whether they are in WDW for rides, shows, shopping, resorts, food or anything else, why shouldn't they expect quality? I am not *wrong* for my priorities.

We cannot get food of the same quality as past trips. Many of my favorite menu items are gone. Others have considerably shrunk, or have poorer presentation. Whenever I see those plates, it makes me sad. It's like looking at a favorite place that has been destroyed. I don't have any option to get those back, but I am still paying the same price as I used to. Can you see how we feel cheated?

First timers and WDW devotees alike deserve a wonderful Disney experience. No one deserves "better" than another, but for a loyal "guest" who has spent a considerably percentage of his/her salary in WDW, to be put in the position of never tasting your favorite dishes again, paying the same amount or more, and getting less and watching people throw plate after plate of food away since it's so much they just can't finish it is extremely frustrating. We just want to pay for the kinds of dishes we have grown to love from our favorite place. We don't want to vacation elsewhere. We don't want to eat vast amounts of inferior food. We don't want to have to suddenly rent a car and venture to Orlando or beyond to find fine dining. We used to get it at "home" in our favorite place- Disney.

I don't begrudge anyone the opportunity to enjoy free dining or the DDP, but modifications and adjustments need to be made to bring back some of the magic for a rather large segment of WDW guests who like me, would like to enjoy the quality we used to get. If people who had never eaten lobster before in their lives were suddenly ordering tails left and right and it got too expensive, we can understand, but why remove the dish? Can't we have a few items excluded from the DDP or available for an extra price. When I did the Fantasmic Dining Package, I had to pay an extra $2 to get the Coffee Tartufo for dessert. Why can't there be something like that to accomodate everyone? Why did all the sizes need to shrink? If we're paying OOP, can't we get the "old" portion size?

Rather than have this degrade into a debate over which guests Disney should consider more important, or completely bash or glorify DDP, why not just admit that it was a good idea with flawed implementation that needs to be fixed in order to live up to the Disney ideals. Maybe we can come up with suggestions and improvements and maybe communicate those to WDW and hopefully see some changes. I would much prefer to stand by Disney and fix this. The day I, as an AP holder, have to rent a car just to eat elsewhere will be an extremely sad one and I hope never to see it.

 

[disneygirl29]

No offense, but twice, big deal! Are you the person keeping WDW in business?

No! People like me are! With my DVC, my annual passes, my 60 plus trips in 30 years.

AND I WANT MY QUALITY BACK! And my DS's chicken tenders, too.

I am editing my reply…

Your comment is offending… even to an annual vistor (29 times in 32 yrs)! My how disappointed would Walt be in you! Disney is meant to be shared by all… it is great you have the opportunity to go twice a year for the past 30 yrs… but wouldn’t you want newcomers to get to experience what you love so much about Disney! Yes you may think that the quality has gone down, if so go somewhere else… or write to Disney, do not bash first timers for enjoying what they see! Disney is more than just food and fine dining. I guess you could bash me, since I go with my children, and do enjoy a good meal… I did take the DDP because it saves me a ton of money… and I see nothing wrong with that! And I still think the food is yummy! Maybe I am just not a picky!


Actually look at what you spend per year to Disney (per person) mine is $944/pp (x9 people) that is once a year... resort, DDP (first time), and tickets... I'd love to see what a first timer, or a once in a lifetimer spends on that... and what you spend per year... and see who really is supporting Disney! There are many factors here too... so you go twice a year, for how long? I am there for 8 days... many factors to look at and average... and getting off the point a bit... but your comment offended me even... and it wasn't even posted to me! lol!

 

[kaytieeldr]

I don't begrudge anyone the opportunity to enjoy free dining or the DDP, but modifications and adjustments need to be made to bring back some of the magic for a rather large segment of WDW guests who like me, would like to enjoy the quality we used to get. If

But while you may be a rather large segment, I'm thinking Guests such as you describe are GREATLY outnumbered by Guests for whom dining is far secondary to the theme parks.

Rather than have this degrade into a debate over which guests Disney should consider more important, or completely bash or glorify DDP, why not just admit that it was a good idea with flawed implementation that needs to be fixed in order to live up to the Disney ideals.

I don't think Disney thinks it's flawed. It's not as if some Dining Executive was sitting at his/her desk one day suddenly/magically instituted the DDP. I really think a LOT of time, energy, money, and research went into the whole process.

Maybe we can come up with suggestions and improvements and maybe communicate those to WDW and hopefully see some changes. I would much prefer to stand by Disney and fix this

You mean without complaining or ranting? In an intelligent, reasonable manner? THAT could work. mAYBE Get some food service professionals to toss in some suggestions, poit out what ideas are reasonable and which aren't? I know there are a few on the DIS. Yep - could work.

 

[Rhongepooh]

There are members of the "Old Guard" who visited WDW year after year, yet could not afford TS meals.

I have friends that have many trips under their belts, but ate most meals offsite. They didn't get to experience WDW TS meals until the MYW dining plan was introduced.

I for one love " WDW's Food Stamp Program" There's no way my son and I could afford to have TS meals each day without it. I glad Disney has come up with an affordable dining plan.

add me to the "WDW Food Stamp Program" too!!! I LOVE IT!!!

 

[adrock1976]

I think it is very hard if not near impossible to argue that the DDP is not a good value. The only premise is that you need to use all of its parts. As I have said many times before, it is like paying for a TS meal each day, and getting a CS and a snack for free. If you were never a person who enjoyed or wanted to pay for a TS each day, then the plan might seem like a poor value for you. But in and of itself, for those that make dining a part of the whole experience, it is still very hard to argue with price.

 

[First timer]

For Pete's sake. Forgive me for making a statement or for giving my oh so inexperienced opinion on the subject of dining. Perhaps when

I have traveled to WDW 6,000 times,
have purchased stock,
have purchased DVC,
have acquired a Disney credit card,
have given up my first born up to WDW,
have tatooed mickey on my person,

then and maybe then I can make a statement without being insulted.

And on that note.... I shall unsubscribe from this thread.

 

[disneygal33]

For Pete's sake. Forgive me for making a statement or for giving my oh so inexperienced opinion on the subject of dining. Perhaps when

I have traveled to WDW 6,000 times,
have purchased stock,
have purchased DVC,
have acquired a Disney credit card,
have given up my first born up to WDW,
have tatooed mickey on my person,

then and maybe then I can make a statement without being insulted.

And on that note.... I shall unsubscribe from this thread.

I totally know how you feel!! I like this site a lot, but some of these people are just very unwelcoming to both the site and WDW

 

[Rhongepooh]

Agreed. I run restaurants and you are right on target.

I dont think Disney is looking backwards. This is the first step toward all inclusive packages. They will build critical mass. When they hit a target threshold of percentage of guests utilizing the plan, they will "pull the trigger" and include it in all of their resort stays.

Paying for meals in the parks and resorts will go the way of the "E" ticket.

"Disney Crack". . . So THAT'S what it is!!!! I thought so!!!!

No disney yet. . . must find fix. . .must sell children to buy disney tickets!!!!

 

[MiamiBeach]

Stop fighting! Everybody is right, and Disney is wrong. The DDP is a great marketing tool and its success is filling seats, keeping people and their $$ on-site and thus in Disney's pockets. They COULD have kept the restaurant quality-portions-presentation with the Dining Plan but they didn't. Instead of fixing the problem by charging a little more for the Plan or hiring more servers and line cooks, they have dumbed-down restaurant fare. Instead of tinkering with the Plan so guests AND employees don't feel like they are on a treadmill run amok, they decided to just pocket the profits.

DISNEY has chosen to make more profits by giving EVERYBODY less quality, even those who don't recognize it. Disney should treat their customers better!! We're the good guys, the loyal customers, whether we've been to WDW once or 100 times. Shame on Disney for not serving us all with respect!

 

[PlutoLuvr]

No offense, but twice, big deal! Are you the person keeping WDW in business?

No! People like me are! With my DVC, my annual passes, my 60 plus trips in 30 years.

AND I WANT MY QUALITY BACK! And my DS's chicken tenders, too.

Please remember, Jodi, it's really the tourists like First Timer -- and all the other tourists who spend their vacation $$$ in our beautiful state -- that keep us Floridians alive. How many posts do you see a week from tourists asking about cool places to stay and eat on the way to the Keys (passing right through your neck of the woods)? I see a ton.

Unfortunately, us Floridians do not keep WDW in business. That's very plain to see when we visit in the off-season months.

For as long as you've been going to Disney, I'm sure you remember that "quality food" was nonexistent until recently. They gave us a taste, a quick one for a little less than a decade, and obviously the "Dollar Menu/Meal Deal" strategy we're seeing everywhere suits WDW better. Like you, I'll miss it, but I sure am not going to let it ruin my Orlando vacations. There's much better places to eat right now than WDW.

You're DVC, an AP holder (I am, too, but I bought off site to be able to enjoy all that Orlando has to offer), and you probably have access to a car. You've got a kitchen in your timeshare. There's a Publix right around the corner. Like us, you probably get home from a WDW trip and start planning your next (we're only an hour and a half north, so we try and go every two or three months). I don't eat at McDonalds, so I don't know the exact amount, but I see McDonald's everywhere when I'm walking and driving around WDW. Can't your child get some nuggets there and/or you guys go off-site to enjoy some quality foodie dinners with children's menus your child will eat (no sarcasm...I'm a foodie, too)?

I mean, obviously WDW sees us as the minority. Time to move on. I have -- I actually moved on before the DDP when I noticed a decline in quality and service a few years ago. If you really want to send a message to WDW, send it with your wallet.

 

[jodifla]

For Pete's sake. Forgive me for making a statement or for giving my oh so inexperienced opinion on the subject of dining. Perhaps when

I have traveled to WDW 6,000 times,
have purchased stock,
have purchased DVC,
have acquired a Disney credit card,
have given up my first born up to WDW,
have tatooed mickey on my person,

then and maybe then I can make a statement without being insulted.

And on that note.... I shall unsubscribe from this thread.

You are taking it too personally. I wasn't saying in a yelling, mean way, I was saying it in an exasperated way.

Once you've gone as many times as I have, you may just find that the dining takes on more importance.


They could cut the theme parks in half. Would you still feel it's a great value now that you've seen it? Sure, new people might....but I doubt you would.

That's the point I was trying to make. It used to be STUPENDOUS! And now it's turning into passable.

 

[k5thbeatle]

Well, I didn't read this whole thread and can only imagine some of the arguments.

We just returned from a 2 week stay but I say this based on observations over the last several years.

One thing is painfully obvious...the quality of the dining/food has definitely gone down these last few years. Anyone who cannot see that is in Disney denial . The causes may be debateable but I submit to you that the decline is real!

PS... I swear the "steak sauce" in the CG filet is the same crap on the BBQ beef at Pecos Bill's which is also passed off as the "Maple BBQ glaze" at LeCellier!

 

[Ms. WDW]

No offense, but twice, big deal! Are you the person keeping WDW in business?

No! People like me are! With my DVC, my annual passes, my 60 plus trips in 30 years.

AND I WANT MY QUALITY BACK! And my DS's chicken tenders, too.

Shame on you for making a comment like that. It's all the "firstimers" who keep WDW in business; not just you. She was simply stating her opinion. There was no reason for you to make that rude comment. I'm a DVC member with an anual pass and even more trips than you!!!! But I don't have that attitude like you do. Thank goodness too; I'd loose all my friends.

 

[adrock1976]

You are taking it too personally. I wasn't saying in a yelling, mean way, I was saying it in an exasperated way.

Once you've gone as many times as I have, you may just find that the dining takes on more importance.


They could cut the theme parks in half. Would you still feel it's a great value now that you've seen it? Sure, new people might....but I doubt you would.

That's the point I was trying to make. It used to be STUPENDOUS! And now it's turning into passable.

Maybe you should visit a non-Disney theme park and see how UN-Stupendous they are. Disney is still the benchmark, and I think your comment is quite a exageration