Rant about state testing in schools

[denecarter]

She devoted a full month after New Years to "reviewing for the test" where all she did was take a released version of an old test and showied her students "how to work it." I find this abhorrant.

True story... after one the benchmarks where we actually "shut the school down and went into testing mode", the principal came on the loudspeaker and congratulated the 6th & 7th graders for using and chastised the 8th graders for not using their "testing strategies". They came into the classrooms, looked at the kids tests, and noted whether or not they were using "testing strategies". Were they underlining, crossing out answer choices, etc. For me, knowing the content is the best test strategy.

 

[PlutoPony]

As a parent, I realize my child MUST test well in a variety of settings in order to get ahead today. I may not like it, but frankly I'd much rather that I find out my child doesn't handle multiple choice, essay, etc. problems well in elementary school rather than in high school when they hit the SAT and it impacts their ability to get into college! At least realizing there's a "problem" (use the term loosely) early we can work on improving appropriate skills. Just knowing material isn't enough these days, it's how you SHOW you know it, and knowing it in a variety of settings...... Went thru these tests for the first time w/ DS last year in 3rd grade and guess we're pretty fortunate - the teachers didn't "freak out the kids" and the study guides we used both a) covered the material he'd been working on for the past 2 years and b) seemed to cover what actually turned up on the test. Yes, we did spend more time reviewing than I'd like, but making sure the kids are confident that they're knowledgable on the subjects is important. Yes I agree there are problem with the overall concept (I worry about ESOL and Special Ed students being held to the same standards) but I think the bottom line is students, parents, and schools must be held accountable for knowing certain things..... and they haven't been up until now!
Anybody have a better way that doesn't add on LAYERS of bureaucracy???

 

[JulieWent]

I have to disagree. I am a great proponent of testing - high stakes included. I have not looked at a science test, but I have looked at the math tests. If the content of the science test is anywhere near the content of the math test, I would have to ask you = "what are you teaching if you are not teaching the stuff on the test?"
I have found NOTHING on the math test that should not be taught. In fact, the only problem I have is that I don't have time to get around to teaching all the stuff that is on the test because I have to spend so much time reviewing really basic fundamentals that ought not have to be reviewed in high school.
I look forward to the day that these evil standardized tests force teachers in lower levels to actually TEACH MATH instead of whatever it is that they would "rather be teaching." It is my opinion that you should not even CONSIDER teaching anything else as long as students cannot master these standard tests. These tests are NOT HARD. They are EXTREMELY EASY. If a student cannot nail these tests, it proves that he doesn't KNOW the subject. It shows that he may have "learned" some pet ideas of his particular teacher, or knows how to parrot some stuff is asked with 'just the right words' but is woefully uneducated in the subject.
I have never undertood the reluctance of teachers to have their students take these tests, unless they are afraid that their shortcomings will be revealed.
I WANT to know if what I am teaching prepares my students to answer when SOMEONE ELSE asks them a question.

I want to answer this post by telling you the story of a 4th grade boy that I know. He is very bright and verbal but needs a little extra help in math. He has been getting that help because his parents care and happen to have enough money to pay for a really good tutor.

This year, because of NCLB's testing mandates, his teacher is under huge pressures to "cover material." From November through February, she "taught" her 4th graders everything they would EVER need to know about fractions (including what fractions were, how to find equivalent fractions, how to add fractions and how to subtract fractions -- with different denominators), decimals, measurement -- both standard and metric, and geometry. I am sure you would approve since she, indeed, taught what will be on "these standard tests."

When the 4th grader's parents asked why she was moving at such a break-neck pace, she said, "I have to at least cover all this material before THE TEST."

Of course, the 4th grader didn't get fractions. He understood what fractions were, and working slowly with his tutor, he started to "get" some of the other concepts in working with fractions. But he was no where near ready to "move on." On he went, though.

Now, it is April. The 4th grader will test in math, and he will have "covered" all the concepts on the test. His math score will be about where it was last year -- in the 30th percentile. He will have gained ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

I am a 9th grade teacher. I work with 15 year olds every day who still have NO IDEA how to work with fractions. What if in 4th grade we stopped and said, "Why don't we take the time to actually TEACH this very difficult, abstract concept before we "move on" to something else because that "something else" will be on the test? Then, those 15 year olds' test scores would actually increase because they wouldn't be stuck in the perpetual cycle of cramming for a meaningless test. Then, we could teach, not what we prefer to, but what we NEED to.

That 4th grader that I wrote of if my son. He WILL get what he needs because I will make sure of it. He will work with his caring, capable tutor who does not answer to an idiotic bureaucrat with a political agenda. But this will happen only because I am able to provide this service for him. Don't we owe a REAL education to all of our children? We're trying to prove we're providing one by making the numbers dance. Any bogus politician can make numbers do what he or she wants. It takes a REAL teacher, like those who have spoken on this forum, to stand up and say we want to REALLY TEACH, we want to help children make numbers make sense.

Julie

 

[TinkerBelle2992]

I had a teacher in 5th grade she was the math teacher. She had the science teacher teach us more math to learn it all before the PSSA's. Then, after the tests, she went back and reviewed and the chapters for only a week and no one understood and everyone did bad on the chapter tests. I'm in 7th now, and the TerraNova's are Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday and they schuedule them the week of the time change!! Everyone's going to be so tired!!

 

[Caradana]

I think a lot of good points have been made on this thread, both for and against testing, but I want to throw in: I've never understood this disconnect between "knowing the material" and "being able to demonstrate knowledge of the material in a test." If you can't do the math on the test, it's because you can't do the math ... if you can't do the reading comp on the test, it's because you can't do the reading comp. I think some parents labor under a grand delusion that their kids have secret strengths and they mysteriously choke on tests - and I think that short of special education and learning disability conditions, a test is a pretty good indicator of what a kid does and does not know. And by high school, you can pretty much say who your top performers and bottom performers will be on any test ...

I might not always agree with curricula, I definitely think that NCLB is dreaming the impossible dream, but I think the intent of tests is sound. And if the kid can't do it on the test, he probably can't do it under pressure in the workplace, and then what good is the knowledge to him anyway, if he has it but can't apply it under normal conditions?

D

P.S. Plumbers and electricians need Algebra II?!?!? I would argue that 90% of professionals have no use for Algebra II on any regular basis. I wonder how many of us DISers could pass an Algebra II final today.

 

[lewdyan1]

P.S. Plumbers and electricians need Algebra II?!?!? I would argue that 90% of professionals have no use for Algebra II on any regular basis. I wonder how many of us DISers could pass an Algebra II final today.

Hello - I have a hard time with fourth grade math homework every night. Something about multiplying and dividing fractions, who's on top and I don't know is on third.

 

[janette]

I think some parents labor under a grand delusion that their kids have secret strengths and they mysteriously choke on tests - and I think that short of special education and learning disability conditions, a test is a pretty good indicator of what a kid does and does not know. And by high school, you can pretty much say who your top performers and bottom performers will be on any test ...

My oldest DD failed a practice reading test in 3rd grade, she has always excelled in school and is in the accelerated programs. I was pulled in for a conference and given all kinds of information about my "At Risk" child. I wasn't panicked since I knew she knew the information but is sometimes inattentive, I chalked it up to a bad day. Imagine my suprise in being told that my A student could be retained if she didn't pass the test. I'd always downplayed the test and didn't want her to stress about it but did tell her to slow down and make sure she paid attention. She ended up with a perfect score on the actual test.

Yes there are kids who just don't test well, sadly in todays academic world it puts them at a real disadvantage.

 

[Rokkitsci]

I think a lot of good points have been made on this thread, both for and against testing, but I want to throw in: I've never understood this disconnect between "knowing the material" and "being able to demonstrate knowledge of the material in a test." If you can't do the math on the test, it's because you can't do the math ... if you can't do the reading comp on the test, it's because you can't do the reading comp. I think some parents labor under a grand delusion that their kids have secret strengths and they mysteriously choke on tests - and I think that short of special education and learning disability conditions, a test is a pretty good indicator of what a kid does and does not know. And by high school, you can pretty much say who your top performers and bottom performers will be on any test ...

I might not always agree with curricula, I definitely think that NCLB is dreaming the impossible dream, but I think the intent of tests is sound. And if the kid can't do it on the test, he probably can't do it under pressure in the workplace, and then what good is the knowledge to him anyway, if he has it but can't apply it under normal conditions?

D

P.S. Plumbers and electricians need Algebra II?!?!? I would argue that 90% of professionals have no use for Algebra II on any regular basis. I wonder how many of us DISers could pass an Algebra II final today.

I completely agree with your post. A test is an appropriate medium for determining if you now the subject matter or not. Do people sometimes have a bad day? Of course they do. I still recall having a 'mental block' on a test in college that I knew cold. Cost me an A in a subject where I had it nailed.
But - there is no device known to mankind that is foolproof, or that works one hundred percent of the time.

I think that treachers should make their tests somewhat rigorous, so that when a student comes up against a REAL test, they will not be so freaked out.

A test is supposed to be somewhat stressful - that is why they call it a "test."

 

[janette]

A test is supposed to be somewhat stressful - that is why they call it a "test."

Agreed but 1st graders shouldn't be stressed about a test they'll take in 3rd grade. We've since changed elementary schools and the one we are in isn't as bad but my DD started stressing in 1st grade about how she'd do on these tests. She also had a teacher tell her in math that they weren't going to cover a section of the book because it wasn't on the test.

 

[swilphil]

All of the gripes and complaints about standardized testing need to be
laid at the doorstep of one place......state legislatures. They are the
ones who set the rules, CHANGE the rules when schools become successful
(here in Ohio anyway), and release the results.

A previous poster who thought the teacher released the students scores
to the newspaper may just be mis-informed. First, they are a matter of
public record, second, it is usually the state that does the releasing of
information.

State legislatures are the ones causing all the headaches, the schools,
and henceforth the teachers, are the ones being thrown under bus. I hate
the fact that my students are judged on one week's performance, in March
no less. There is a house bill in our General Assembly that would move testing
to May.....finally some commen sense....which means it probably won't pass.

This may be true in your state, but the federal NCLB is what is causing problems in mine. I began administrating state assessment tests in the early '90s, and it was relatively painless. NCLB has set up the system of reporting scores to show that some schools fail. Much of this depends on their population of minorities, non-English speakers or special education students.
Does anyone think this is eventually going to lead to government vouchers for private schools?

 

[Rokkitsci]

Agreed but 1st graders shouldn't be stressed about a test they'll take in 3rd grade. We've since changed elementary schools and the one we are in isn't as bad but my DD started stressing in 1st grade about how she'd do on these tests.

This is true - My comments are strictly relevant to high school. I have not pondered the way testing impacts elementary school students.
However, I do know that the problems I am seeing with high school students begins with their not having been properly prepared in lower grades.

 

[disneysnowflake]

Hey, TinkerBelle2992, I just commented to my husband last night about how stupid it was to have these tests the day after the time change where the students were going to be tired the first day of testing. You'd have thought someone who scheduled these tests would have thought about this before.

I have a son in 5th grade and a son in 9th grade both taking tests all week.

My 5th grader is really bright in math, but he has dyslexia. He is really, really worried this year because he's required to do an essay this year. The teacher told him and his class that everyone needs to do very well on this essay or the entire class scores will be lower if one student does poorly. This bothered my 5th grader even this morning because he doesn't want to be the one blamed for dragging down scores due to his Dyslexia.

I'll tell you honestly that the junior high and high school students in our school do NOT take this test seriously. Even though we've stated to my 9th grader the importance of doing well, he says everyone else is just going to goof off. Sigh.

My sister is a teacher of severely handicapped elementary students. They are brought in from several different districts. These students are still required and tested just like the regular education students. Clearly they shouldn't be given these tests because they are not learning the same things as the general education students. My sister has had administration and other teachers complain to her about her students dragging down school scores. Hello? Some of these children can't even hold a pencil. They are wonderful children who have varying forms of severe delay. How do they expect these children to even complete the tests?

We are not looking forward to these tests today. I just told my boys to really try their best.

 

[Figment]

P.S. Plumbers and electricians need Algebra II?!?!? I would argue that 90% of professionals have no use for Algebra II on any regular basis. I wonder how many of us DISers could pass an Algebra II final today.

Here is one link:

http://web.ask.com/redir?u=http://t...umbers offer a service people need.&tit=SCHOO

I have family in these businesses...they are not just dumb laborers.

 

[momof2inPA]

I could not disagree with you more.

In fact, I have spent a lot of time today preparing lesson plans for my return to class tomorrow, following Easter Break. One of the ideas that I am considering is to give the class a couple of very simple problems, and ask them to write down not only WHAT they do in each step but also to explain WHY they are doing it.

Writing down in words how to do a math problem is a waste of time and sometimes a discouragement for the kids who are good at Math. I can see where you might want to use Math Journaling as a teaching tool to see where the half of your students who are not grasping the concepts are screwing up, then you would not have to observe or have them communicate their methodology one on one. It would save you, the teacher, time. However, there is no situation where it would be appropriate to test a student's ability to perform this teaching method.

 

[lissawynn]

This week, 2 of my kids are taking the PSSAs. Yes, I understand that these tests are needed to make sure that the kids are learning what they need to, but I feel the schools are placing way too much pressure on these kids. Let's face it, the SCHOOLS are the ones who are being graded more than the kids are. This year, the elementary school is not only telling the kids to get a good nights sleep (nothing wrong with this all the time) and telling them if they don't have time to eat in the morning at home, they can bring breakfast in with them but they are also telling the kids that their grades will be published in the newpapers and they better do good (no pressure here ). In the middle school, they are not only giving the kids FREE breakfast, they are giving them candy during the tests to help them score better.

I think the schools need to worry about how the children are doing year-round and not just when the districts are being graded.

Individual test scores are NOT published in the newspapers. The scores for each school in the district is published, and readers are made aware if the districts' scores have improved/dropped from the previous year.
In the middle school where I teach, we allow the students to bring breakfast items to eat during the break in their tests, be we don't give the students candy in order for them to test better.
The tests, IMO, are not always an accurate representation of either the students' or teachers' abilities. I think we all know that.

 

[Bayshore Bandit]

"Writing down in words how to do a math problem is a waste of time and sometimes a discouragement for the kids who are good at Math"

There are many, many teachers who would disagree on this point. Although
it is not needed for every content area, even the best math students
have something to gain from being able to explain in words or pictures the method they used to solve a math problem.

 

[Rokkitsci]

"Writing down in words how to do a math problem is a waste of time and sometimes a discouragement for the kids who are good at Math"

There are many, many teachers who would disagree on this point. Although
it is not needed for every content area, even the best math students
have something to gain from being able to explain in words or pictures the method they used to solve a math problem.

This is absolutely true. Especially are they a good thing on a standardized test, where the objective is to really guage how much a student actually KNOWS about the subject.
Since most of these tests are multiple choice, I am glad to know that they sometimes ask a sort of essay question to allow a student to actually demonstrate his knowledge.
There are rubrics used to grade essay questions, so that it is not a 'right or wrong' situation. If you can do the problem you probably get some credit, if you can explain it at all you get more credit. If you can really explain it fully, you would get full credit.
This is good.

 

[georgina]

I think the Mars, PA school district got in trouble last year because their seniors treated the state test as a joke and did bad on purpose! Now the district is trying to get the kids to take the tests more seriously.

My school district does not stress the kids out about the tests. Individual scores are not posted in the paper, just the school average. I took standardized tests in school as a kid, but the stakes for schools are higher now.

 

[Caradana]

Writing down in words how to do a math problem is a waste of time and sometimes a discouragement for the kids who are good at Math.

Oh, massively, completely, utterly wrong. Because if your kids grow up and take jobs that touch math even tangentially ... plumbers, electricians, engineers, academia, whatever ... they will need to be able to explain how they perform their calculations, in words, logically and sequentially. Welcome to email culture. Describing mathematical approaches verbally is one of the skills that carries over to professional life. And if a kid is discouraged by being asked to write out his math, because he's "good at it," he sounds like an unpleasant little kid who should learn that in life, we all do things we're assigned to do occasionally.

 

[meandtheguys2]

Oh, massively, completely, utterly wrong. Because if your kids grow up and take jobs that touch math even tangentially ... plumbers, electricians, engineers, academia, whatever ... they will need to be able to explain how they perform their calculations, in words, logically and sequentially.

I am inclined to agree. Being able to do math in your head is a great skill, and one that I push. BUT a kid has to be able to understand and describe the process often in math to go the next level. And an instructor needs to know what/how the kiddo is working out a problem if their method isn't working.

Agree with the carry-over to adulthood also.

OP, if you think these tests are tough on the kids, you should sit in on the reviews of the questions sometime! Absolutely foolish!