Radio Hosts Criticizes Autistic Children - Your Thoughts

[*NikkiBell*]

I just heard about this idiot tonight on the news. Anyone hear about this?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008/07/21/2008-07-21_radio_host_michael_savage_incites_protes.html

 

[handicap18]

Never underestimate the stupidity of people!

 

[Luv Bunnies]

I heard about that the other day. The newscaster said the autism community is asking for an apology and air time on his show to properly educate people about autism. I sure hope they get it and he has to eat his words.

The problem is that this guy says outrageous stuff all the time just to get attention. It keeps his name in the news which means higher ratings which means he can sell more advertising. It all comes down to stroking his own ego and making money. Some people know he's full of it. The problem is that many people will believe him and further perpetuate untruths about autistm.

 

[jodifla]

Yeah, he's a piece of work. But he has a show on right now where he seems to be backpedaling....

Problem is, this lunatic has a point! ASD IS being over diagnosed -- particularly that it's been turned into a "spectrum". They had a school psychologist on basically saying the same thing....lots of screeners were completely unqualified to screen kids, and there's money in it for schools if they declare kids "autistic".

But Savages little rant totally torpedoed one of his main point: Autism is a BIG business now, and there's lots of people making lots of money off desperate parents on COMPLETELY unproven treatments.

 

[BeckyScott]

What's almost as interesting as the article, are the comments at the bottom. That is some gooooood readin' !

I think there should be some sort of test you have to pass before you're allowed to get on the internet. I love reading comments after news articles, like on Yahoo and stuff, they're always as entertaining as the article itself.

And obviously, some sort of test you have to pass before you get to spew your opinions on air. There's been kind of a problem with that lately, hasn't there?

jodi, he might have a point, but unfortunately he's made such a butt out of himself that nobody's gonna listen.

 

[ahecht]

I agree with Jodi -- he was WAY off base, but there probably are 10% or so of Autism cases that are simply behavioral issues, or where the autism is very mild but the parents don't discipline their children because they are told that it is a disability. As Jodi said, the people doing the diagnosis have a financial incentive to want the child to have autism, whether it's a public school that will now get federal funding to deal with problem children or a private psychiatrist who would get ongoing payments from the parents/insurance. The same thing happened with ADD, and made it that much harder for those with real learning disabilities to get the help they needed. That number is nowhere near 99% though.

 

[kaffinito]

I agree with Jodi -- he was WAY off base, but there probably are 10% or so of Autism cases that are simply behavioral issues, or where the autism is very mild but the parents don't discipline their children because they are told that it is a disability. As Jodi said, the people doing the diagnosis have a financial incentive to want the child to have autism, whether it's a public school that will now get federal funding to deal with problem children or a private psychiatrist who would get ongoing payments from the parents/insurance. The same thing happened with ADD, and made it that much harder for those with real learning disabilities to get the help they needed. That number is nowhere near 99% though.

I agree with the previous comments on this matter. That talk show host was just trying to boost his public persona by being a jerk.

Soapbox time..... I also think that the comments in bold above highlight a very common problem. A lot of parents do seem to feel that their HFA kids have a disability and give the kids way too much leeway, IMHO. I see it all the time at my youngest boys' school. I'm trying to teach both my kids that Autism is not a disability in their case, that its actually an advantage that they have over other "regular" kids. I'm always saying "Autism is not an excuse for bad behavior" (Especially to the oldest!)

Yet, I see parents who will not use even basic discipline with their HFA children because they're "disabled" Ok, I'm done with my little rant... Thanks for reading!

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I have never understood the appeal of these "shock jocks". I frankly don't care to listen to a person say whatever he thinks will get a rise out of people while spouting off opinions on issues he knows nothing about. I've got better things to do with my time.

I agree with the previous comments on this matter. That talk show host was just trying to boost his public persona by being a jerk.

Soapbox time..... I also think that the comments in bold above highlight a very common problem. A lot of parents do seem to feel that their HFA kids have a disability and give the kids way too much leeway, IMHO. I see it all the time at my youngest boys' school. I'm trying to teach both my kids that Autism is not a disability in their case, that its actually an advantage that they have over other "regular" kids. I'm always saying "Autism is not an excuse for bad behavior" (Especially to the oldest!)

Yet, I see parents who will not use even basic discipline with their HFA children because they're "disabled" Ok, I'm done with my little rant... Thanks for reading!

It's such a slippery slope. You need to hold the child accountable for their actions, but you also have to take into account how the disability affects their behavior. I had one student in my class this summer with Asperger's and another that I strongly suspected (and later confirmed) had Asperger's. Both of them had a very hard time with directions and getting started. With most of my students, if they were up out of the seat after the bell rang they would be in trouble. One of the students with Asperger's on the other hand needed more time to process the directions which were written on an overhead. I did tolerate behavior from him that I would not from another student because I knew it wasn't about defiance or being off task.

I also have worked in an autism classroom for preschoolers, and tantrums are a normal part of our day. Now, we do discipline for tantrums, but we are also aware of what they can and cannot help. I admit that I will not discipline a child with autism (or other developmental disabilities that affect behavior) the same way I discipline a neurotypical child. I will also admit to at times accepting behavior from children with special needs that I would not accept from other students. Of course, it depends on the child, the behavior, and the situation, but I think you have to find a balance between discipline and understanding.

 

[BeckyScott]

I admit that I will not discipline a child with autism (or other developmental disabilities that affect behavior) the same way I discipline a neurotypical child.

Yes, but it probably has less to do with preferential treatment, and more to do with the fact that it just won't work.

For example, DS had a teacher that, if he decided to be cranky and not do his work, would put him in a time-out kinda thing. That was class rules. If you were having a problem being a productive member of class, you were sent over to this one area to hang out and think about your crime for a little while. It was very close to a time-out, most kids "got it".

My son, however, this was like a reward. Letting him go off by himself, undisturbed by the outside world... he'd just sit there and do stuff with his fingers... perfectly content... completely missed the point. The teacher didn't want to change the rule for him because it would make him stand out, but modified it to send the para over there and have him talk out the problem or write about it.

Youngest DS also got sent to the counselor for something he said in class, that he was just repeating something he'd heard me say (my bad!) and I am pretty sure didn't understand that you don't say to a teacher. It didn't turn into a huge deal, the counselor just tried to explain to him that those words weren't good words to say to a teacher. The teacher, on the other hand, (it wasn't his regular classroom teacher or any SpEd staff) got a little bent out of shape about it, and I just don't think she really understood-- she didn't realize he was quoting his mother-- whoops.

I've found that w/ one autism and one ADHD that typical discipline isn't effective. Not to imply that it isn't needed, but to someone who doesn't know better and who is judging on limited exposure, they might think the child isn't being disciplined at all...

I think many of us have been through or heard horror stories of kids tantruming in public. Normal parenting rules say that when that happens, you bust their butt for it. Autism parenting rules say that you ignore the behavior until the kid figures out it isn't doing any good. If you don't know the autism parenting rules, it would look like you're letting the kid get away with bad behavior.

 

[jodifla]

I agree with Jodi -- he was WAY off base, but there probably are 10% or so of Autism cases that are simply behavioral issues, or where the autism is very mild but the parents don't discipline their children because they are told that it is a disability. As Jodi said, the people doing the diagnosis have a financial incentive to want the child to have autism, whether it's a public school that will now get federal funding to deal with problem children or a private psychiatrist who would get ongoing payments from the parents/insurance. The same thing happened with ADD, and made it that much harder for those with real learning disabilities to get the help they needed. That number is nowhere near 99% though.

But I don't know that they are behavioral issues because parents don't discipline, although that might be the case.

Our DS has marked auditory processing difficulties. He's 6, but at a 4-year- old level of verbal comprehension. So he tends to act young.....but when you see a 6-year-old acting like a 4-year-old, it can be easy to jump to a brat conclusion.

Savage also wanted to make it all about the money...that parents are somehow scamming the system. But in reality, once parents are sent into a tailspin of an autism diagnosis, a lot of times they end up spending their own money ...tens of thousands of dollars oftentimes...on a lot of unproven treatments. There's BIG MONEY in autism "treatments" and that's really a problem.

Schools doing the diagnosing is the other really big problem. The IDEA sets up the system in that their rules for "assessing" someone as autistic can be much broader than the actual DSM-V rules. So you get states like Oregon, whose autism stats are absolutely sky high because of their broad criteria.

Lots of parents are being bullied into taking an autism diagnosis by school personnel, who basically blackmail them the parents taking the diagnosis by saying (quite illegally!) that their children won't get services unless they accept the label. (Sapping resources for parents whose kids ARE autistic and can't find rooms in the program!)

It's all a mess.

 

[kaffinito]

I've found that w/ one autism and one ADHD that typical discipline isn't effective. Not to imply that it isn't needed, but to someone who doesn't know better and who is judging on limited exposure, they might think the child isn't being disciplined at all...

I think many of us have been through or heard horror stories of kids tantruming in public. Normal parenting rules say that when that happens, you bust their butt for it. Autism parenting rules say that you ignore the behavior until the kid figures out it isn't doing any good. If you don't know the autism parenting rules, it would look like you're letting the kid get away with bad behavior.

Very true! You have to parent differently with an autistic kid than you do with a regular kid. When those tantrums start with my youngest, I have to console him and empathize with his feelings in order to calm him down. To others, it looks like I'm catering to him, but I'm really trying to head off a full blown four alarm meltdown. If I walk away, then the tantrum will turn into a meltdown.

I think my point is those parents who allow their kids to engage in inapproriate behaviors such as touching, grabbing, kicking, etc., and who just shrug and say" well he can't help it" Those parents aren't helping their kids modify socially inappropriate behaviors, they don't seem to understand that autism does not give blanket permission for acting in ways that others around them find unacceptable. They also seem unwilling to expore other ways to teach their kids approppriate behaviors. Again, I am only speaking of parents of HFA kids, and this is just what I have observed.

 

[KPeveler]

I do not have kids with autism, but i have several adult friends with Aspergers... i think the biggest problem some of these kids will face is that not all parents of Aspie kids are teaching them how to function in the real world... my understanding is that kids with Aspergers are verbal (unless there are coexisting problems) but social interactions and behavioral rules are either misunderstood or simply not there (which descirbes my Aspie friends). Treating Aspergers as a disability which will keep you out of the "real world" i think is damaging (as opposed to children who are completely non-verbal or with developmental delays which would make it unsafe/impossible for them to function in the "real world").

Yes, you have to parent differently if your kid has Aspergers, but too often it turns into a "crutch" for both child and parent. For example, my friend was 18 when she was diagnosed with Aspergers. Now, a year later, she has been told by so many doctors that she is "different" (which is true), and since her behavior is "hard-wired" she should not/can not change it. so if she says something rude and insensitive, she will say later when i tell her she was being rude (i say it politely, but how will she ever learn what is rude or not if no one tells her?), she says "yes, i know you consider that rude, but I have Aspergers so I just say it anyway."

While she does have Aspergers and has problems with impulse control in social situations, she is not being prepared for life in hte real world. She has no developmental delays (actually is very bright and talented, speaks 2 languages), and can definitely hold a job and go to school (she does so now). However, she can never hold a job if she is going to say rude things to co-workers and then say "but i have Aspergers, so you should ignore it."

I am not aware of the full range of Aspergers cases, but I will admit I am confused when I hear people say they needed a GAC for their 18 yr old with Aspergers because he cannot wait in line. Unless there are coexisting problems, which there may be, I admit, I do not need how at age 18 a verbal person cannot have "you must wait" explained to them... perhaps someone can explain it to me better, since I know a few people with Aspergers, but I certainly do not know them all.

I understand some of the challenges of living with somewhat-similar issues - I have SPD/SID and mild synesthia, and I am a "seeker." I have almost-uncontrollable impulses to touch things, including things like strangers clothes, if they look soft. However, I know that is inappropriate in most cases, so I wear soft clothes on my own and "pet" them. I have learned coping skills, and I fear that too many kids with autism and Aspergers and SID are being labeled as "disabled" and are not being taught necessary skills for living in hte "real world." obviously not all kids can be taught everything, I understand, but I worry too many parents are afraid or exhausted by all the challenges in their lives and just let things go and use autism as an excuse, rahter than working on such issues.

That does NOT mean i think michael savage was right, or that people are calling "brats" autistic as an excuse. I am saying I think the "hype" has turned the name of the disorder into a crutch, when it should be a TOOL to help children live as close to normal/fulfilling/enriching/happy lives as possible

 

[KirstenB]

Guy's a complete tool, like all shock jocks. Everything in life is just so simple to them.

 

[skoi]

Lots of parents are being bullied into taking an autism diagnosis by school personnel, who basically blackmail them the parents taking the diagnosis by saying (quite illegally!) that their children won't get services unless they accept the label. (Sapping resources for parents whose kids ARE autistic and can't find rooms in the program!)

It's all a mess.

This is interesting. I'm preparing for our first IEP with our son. When he was evaluated (he had been in the US about 4 months after living his life in a very poor Chinese orphanage, had hearing issues that were undiagnosed until he saw a cleft palate team here in the US, and could speak no Chinese let alone English), they were asking questions constantly about repetitive behaviors, lack of affect, lack of interaction with others, etc. and then would argue with me when I said he wasn't like that at home. My husband (who as you can see from my sig is deployed from home) is a social worker who works with dd/mh population and has for 20 years, said it sounded like they were trying to work an autism diagnosis. Pediatrician said the same thing when I talked to her about it.
So not to hijack the thread, but is there anyway to respectfully resist the diagnosis at this point? And how long is too long to wait for him to adjust to English, American life, get over orphanage delays, etc before we look at other issues? This agency was in no way equipped to deal with the adoption angle in all of this, and they're not very well regarded by other professionals and agencies in the area, but that's another issue.

Julie

 

[jodifla]

This is interesting. I'm preparing for our first IEP with our son. When he was evaluated (he had been in the US about 4 months after living his life in a very poor Chinese orphanage, had hearing issues that were undiagnosed until he saw a cleft palate team here in the US, and could speak no Chinese let alone English), they were asking questions constantly about repetitive behaviors, lack of affect, lack of interaction with others, etc. and then would argue with me when I said he wasn't like that at home. My husband (who as you can see from my sig is deployed from home) is a social worker who works with dd/mh population and has for 20 years, said it sounded like they were trying to work an autism diagnosis. Pediatrician said the same thing when I talked to her about it.
So not to hijack the thread, but is there anyway to respectfully resist the diagnosis at this point? And how long is too long to wait for him to adjust to English, American life, get over orphanage delays, etc before we look at other issues? This agency was in no way equipped to deal with the adoption angle in all of this, and they're not very well regarded by other professionals and agencies in the area, but that's another issue.

Julie

Yes, you can disagree. We certainly have been from the beginning.

We had some ammunition....First, we got a correct Dx from a research hospital (Vanderbilt). Then we hired a lawyer to advise us behind the scense (she's an expert in IDEA law in the area and serves as an area mediator on special ed issues.)

How old is your child? Do you have any evalautions of him? Certainly, he's been through a lot in his young life. What you said about him being different at home speaks volumes (as the clinician who diagnosed our son told the IEP team..."You can't be autistic just at school.")

If you can''t come to an agreement at the IEP meeting, there's a box to check that you disagree and are requesting mediation. That sort of freezes everything until you go to a mediator.

If your child is under 8, he could get a broader "developmental delay" assessment that would make him eligible for all services without an ASD label.

 

[skoi]

How old is your child? Do you have any evalautions of him? Certainly, he's been through a lot in his young life. What you said about him being different at home speaks volumes (as the clinician who diagnosed our son told the IEP team..."You can't be autistic just at school.")

He'll be four next month. We have only the evaluation China Center for Adoption Affairs sends with the medical information- where they check off boxes next to things like "stacks blocks", "recognizes colors". He seemed more or less on target, but it's not exactly a complete evaluation. He had a severe cleft palate and lip and has several surgeries in his future, as well as a need for extensive speech therapy, along with the tubes in his ears which have done wonders for his hearing/beginning speech. We're more concerned with his attachment than his cognitive lag, which is there, but the adoption therapists always say "one month delay for every three months of institutionalization", so I had a very laid back attitude about his cognitive delay and they didn't seem to get that.I think they thought I was somewhat neglectful in that respect, but we want to work on any attachment issues, especially with new dad going off two months after he came home.

If you can''t come to an agreement at the IEP meeting, there's a box to check that you disagree and are requesting mediation. That sort of freezes everything until you go to a mediator.

If your child is under 8, he could get a broader "developmental delay" assessment that would make him eligible for all services without an ASD label.

Thanks for that info. I think that's what will end up happening. We're being handed off to a new agency- one does all the assessment and intake then sends you off to different service providers. It used to be your closest service provider did everything, which makes more sense to me. My husband works in the system and hates the new set up. He says it takes at least twice as long to get services for people.

Thanks again.

 

[jodifla]

He'll be four next month. We have only the evaluation China Center for Adoption Affairs sends with the medical information- where they check off boxes next to things like "stacks blocks", "recognizes colors". He seemed more or less on target, but it's not exactly a complete evaluation. He had a severe cleft palate and lip and has several surgeries in his future, as well as a need for extensive speech therapy, along with the tubes in his ears which have done wonders for his hearing/beginning speech. We're more concerned with his attachment than his cognitive lag, which is there, but the adoption therapists always say "one month delay for every three months of institutionalization", so I had a very laid back attitude about his cognitive delay and they didn't seem to get that.I think they thought I was somewhat neglectful in that respect, but we want to work on any attachment issues, especially with new dad going off two months after he came home.




Thanks for that info. I think that's what will end up happening. We're being handed off to a new agency- one does all the assessment and intake then sends you off to different service providers. It used to be your closest service provider did everything, which makes more sense to me. My husband works in the system and hates the new set up. He says it takes at least twice as long to get services for people.

Thanks again.

Well, good luck to you and your son. We've been in some great preschool programs, and some not so great ones. It really all depends on the personnel and their outlook and qualifications, as well as the programming!

 

[SueM in MN]

Here are some further developments in the story the OP mentioned.

 

[ireland_nicole]

It's kind of funny; we're trying to fight to "get" an AU label for DD. There are many services which would really help and benefit her at school that are only available for kids designated austistic. According to the school, our Neurologist's dx of DD as ASD isn't valid. She's not "autistic enough" to meet their criteria, even though they haven't done a full assessment; well, "once more back into the breach" I guess. It's just interesting how different different school districts are.

 

[PlainJane]

Somehow I knew it was him when you said it was a radio host. I never liked him, I always disliked what he had to say about kids with ADHD. I've always found him to be very arrogant, he thinks he knows everything about everything, and for the most part he very misinformed, and he's not one who will take correction.

As far as what he said on kids being misdiagnosed, if he had put it like that it would have been one thing, but he said 99 percent are, which is a gross overstatement. He also thought Autism is just a behavioral problem, but it's so much more than that. I had a friend whose little brother is autistic. I remember how excited her parents were to tell me that he had opened the microwave and took out the food inside when it went off a couple of nights before, it was the first sign that they had ever seen that he knew what was going on around him. He was ten years old and he still didn't speak, but that one little act gave them so much hope.

I won't go on since so many of you know so much more than I, why preach to the choir?