Race Etiquette: should runDisney provide more instructions?

[Lawyer Mommy]

This would be a great idea. Especially for someone like me who is new to running a marathon or half mary. I don't know any of the etiquette that more experienced runners may be familiar with .For example signaling when you are about to stop or change from running to walking. Now I do have enough sense not to come to a dead stop in front of someone but I knew nothing about a signal.

I also was new to the half marathon and didn't know anything about the hand signal. I did read the instructions in the program -- more than once. I wish someone had told me about the hand signal. I knew to move to the right when I was going to walk or slow down, and I looked behind me so that I didn't just halt right in front of someone. But I must admit that I did not signal, not because I am rude, but because I simply did not know. A video would have helped me with this. I would have watched it.

 

[afnaechiquita]

I seem to recall that there is a mention of race etiquette by Jeff Galloway in his video on the Disney site. He mentions about moving to the side and raising hand when coming off the run for the walk portion.

Is it a visually appealing video though? I'm imagining something with the fur characters running with Major Domo and showing the do's and don't's - much more appealing to watch, I think.

 

[afnaechiquita]

For PHM, there were just too many people. Period. But, the reason stopping for pictures makes it worse is:

Say you start it C. Without picture stops, you would expect to clear each mile marker before some who started in Coral F. However, if you stop for pictures and the person in Coral F doesn't... suddenly you are running with that person in Coral F because they have caught up to you. Magnify that by 2000 and you've got a problem. (Especially since many people in the later corals don't tend to stop as often because they know they don't have as much of a cushion as the earlier corals do)

I started in C and did stop for a few pictures and ended up finished the race about 45 minutes slower than I intended even though my running pace (when I was able to find space to run) was normal. When the course got really crowded, I noticed that there were a ton of runners from D, E and F along with me. At that point, it was very difficult be be able to run at a faster pace to get ahead of them.

Because of all the picture stops (and yes, incorrect coral placement, injury, heat, etc) the corals did not stay spread out throughout the course. In my opinion, the middle corals all seemed to merge into one big mass of people. Now, given the fact the Disney intentionally puts those picture stop there, they should anticipate this and have a course wide enough to accommodate the crowd. Just my two cents.

Lengthening time between the corrals would be an easier fix, but that would lengthen the overall absolute finish time of the race, thus also lengthening the amount of time that the roads are shut down. I don't see that happening.

Making the course wider would be too difficult as well.

The only best option is the non-option of putting a cap on runners. Absent that, educating runners is the best trauma fix to making it a more enjoyable race.

 

[dburg30]

Lengthening time between the corrals would be an easier fix, but that would lengthen the overall absolute finish time of the race, thus also lengthening the amount of time that the roads are shut down. I don't see that happening.

Making the course wider would be too difficult as well.

The only best option is the non-option of putting a cap on runners. Absent that, educating runners is the best trauma fix to making it a more enjoyable race.

heh.. or start the race even earlier and spread them out so the overall time is longer but the finish time is what it is now?
Or just limit the entries but again, it's a cash cow to them (well not really a cash cow as it takes a TON of money to do what they do) but still, they make jack off these races.. I am hoping that the 21st marathon isnt as crazy and maybe will be more enjoyable for my 2nd marathon.. first goofy.

 

[BackstoryWorthy]

I wish someone had told me about the hand signal. I knew to move to the right when I was going to walk or slow down, and I looked behind me so that I didn't just halt right in front of someone. But I must admit that I did not signal, not because I am rude, but because I simply did not know.

My first 5k is coming up. Being new to any type of running (and not so very young) I used Galloway 1:1 intervals in training and will for this event. I too only knew about staying to the right - not lifting my hand up to signal a transition from a jog to a walk. My experienced runner pals just suggested I start WAY in back with the walkers to avoid annoying anyone running the longer distances that day.
I admit, the level of toward "Gallowalkers" on various running boards has made me want to over-educate myself on issues like interval/race etiquette but also has me questioning future events. A method that made this athletic activity accessible to someone like me seems to diminish it for others. Not so much on here though I appreciate the additional etiquette info.

 

[Phdmama06]

My first 5k is coming up. Being new to any type of running (and not so very young) I used Galloway 1:1 intervals in training and will for this event. I too only knew about staying to the right - not lifting my hand up to signal a transition from a jog to a walk. My experienced runner pals just suggested I start WAY in back with the walkers to avoid annoying anyone running the longer distances that day.
I admit, the level of toward "Gallowalkers" on various running boards has made me want to over-educate myself on issues like interval/race etiquette but also has me questioning future events. A method that made this athletic activity accessible to someone like me seems to diminish it for others. Not so much on here though I appreciate the additional etiquette info.

As a fellow Galloway runner, I see where you are coming from. Much as I've seen some runners put down "Gallowalking", I still appreciate that it makes distance running so much more accessible to so many people. And interestingly enough is what made me look into Galloway in the first place: when I first started running, I just ran straight through, no intervals. I was at one of my first races, and as I was muddling through, I noticed another woman running and walking at regular intervals, but keeping pace with me, and eventually passing me and finishing in front of me once I got tired. I was intrigued, especially since she looked very NOT distressed by the racing. I found out more about it, and made the switch, and have been very happy with it! Don't let anyone ever tell you that it's not "real" running or that you shouldn't be in whatever race catches your fancy!

 

[mickeysgal]

Unless they get rid of those really narrow stretches, it doesn't really matter.

Even if you wanted to move over to walk during the hill at the Contemporary, it was next to impossible due to the single lane allocated for this race and the thousands of runners wedged into it. I ran on the left side sidewalk. The lane of runners were so packed, most were walking. Too many runners, too narrow a course at times. But that's the price you pay to run Main Street and the Castle. All roads going into and out of the MK just aren't wide enough to handle these masses.

Can you imagine the outrage if Disney hears these complaints and switches to a wider course elsewhere on property and therefore drops running the MK? Bet the runners would opt for the bottlenecks again.

 

[indygirl99]

I am relative new to running. Been doing this since June of last year. My experience:

I ran a huge 10k race in september that the runners kept yelling for the walkers to "run on the left".

A smaller 10K in November where the walkers and interval runners were told to run/walk the middle of the road.

And read on here that the run/walkers are supposed to move to the right, and signal. Which I tried to do for Tinker Bell and got run over many times. I had better results staying to the left for Tinker Bell.

And the best was this weekend I ran/walked a 6K and we were run/walking in single file on the right side and had runners keep coming up saying "on your right" when there was a ton of room on the left.

So I'm not really sure what is supposed to be "runners etiquette" and that it is really the same throughout the country. This might be where the confusion is. It is not the same everywhere and people think they are doing the right thing.

Just my observations and experiences, limited as it is.

 

[John VN]

I am relative new to running. Been doing this since June of last year. My experience:

I ran a huge 10k race in september that the runners kept yelling for the walkers to "run on the left".

A smaller 10K in November where the walkers and interval runners were told to run/walk the middle of the road.

And read on here that the run/walkers are supposed to move to the right, and signal. Which I tried to do for Tinker Bell and got run over many times. I had better results staying to the left for Tinker Bell.

And the best was this weekend I ran/walked a 6K and we were run/walking in single file on the right side and had runners keep coming up saying "on your right" when there was a ton of room on the left.

So I'm not really sure what is supposed to be "runners etiquette" and that it is really the same throughout the country. This might be where the confusion is. It is not the same everywhere and people think they are doing the right thing.

Just my observations and experiences, limited as it is.

A simple solution would be to follow the driving rule "slower traffic keep RIGHT, pass left" as on every roadway in the US but we all know that is not reality.

 

[MightyDuck001]

The pace groups were a problem. I grabbed onto one in WWOS because if you can't beat 'em, join 'em (You could not get around them even though the leader did try telling people to walk single file) and at that point I was dying and just wanted to be done and wanted someone to lead me out of the labyrinthine hellhole... I lost them during the on ramp to Hollywood Studios at a water station because I got stuck behind people who just stopped and sipped...

During the marathon I think runners blamed the run/walkers the most--five seconds after starting (we were about 10 feet past the starting line) people's watches started beeping and they started walking. This prompted a verbal altercation between a person who wanted to run and a few people who were now walking and blocking those behind them in the corral... It was not pretty.

The worst part was going past the contemporary... And the WWOS of sports was a little congested, but aside from that I didn't think it was too bad. Animal Kingdom for the marathon was much easier to run than Animal Kingdom during w&d. I run on city sidewalks so I'm used to dodging things like people, dogs, bicyclists... It didn't bother me too much.

 

[jeanigor]

My first 5k is coming up. Being new to any type of running (and not so very young) I used Galloway 1:1 intervals in training and will for this event. I too only knew about staying to the right - not lifting my hand up to signal a transition from a jog to a walk. My experienced runner pals just suggested I start WAY in back with the walkers to avoid annoying anyone running the longer distances that day.
I admit, the level of toward "Gallowalkers" on various running boards has made me want to over-educate myself on issues like interval/race etiquette but also has me questioning future events. A method that made this athletic activity accessible to someone like me seems to diminish it for others. Not so much on here though I appreciate the additional etiquette info.

You have every right to be there as the next guy. If walking of any sort is not allowed, it should be advertised upon registration. (example: Paris is a run only race, it specifies before you sign up and pay: "No walkers.")

I am relative new to running. Been doing this since June of last year. My experience:

I ran a huge 10k race in september that the runners kept yelling for the walkers to "run on the left".

A smaller 10K in November where the walkers and interval runners were told to run/walk the middle of the road.

And read on here that the run/walkers are supposed to move to the right, and signal. Which I tried to do for Tinker Bell and got run over many times. I had better results staying to the left for Tinker Bell.

And the best was this weekend I ran/walked a 6K and we were run/walking in single file on the right side and had runners keep coming up saying "on your right" when there was a ton of room on the left.

So I'm not really sure what is supposed to be "runners etiquette" and that it is really the same throughout the country. This might be where the confusion is. It is not the same everywhere and people think they are doing the right thing.

Just my observations and experiences, limited as it is.

Limited it may be, but still a valid point and to me, even more of a reason for runDisney to be a bit more proactive on putting the information out there. "Welcome to the runDisney race. Here are our running protocols:"
Would it help with things like congestion at the underpass before the Contemporary? No. But it may make for a more enjoyable and safer race if everyone was on the same page.

 

[PrincessV]

I truly don't think a video or PA address will help in the least. I think you will always have a a fair number of people in a large race that caters to casual runners who don't know or don't care about proper race etiquette. I also think, based on personal experience, you'll always have a fair number of people who want to do the right things but aren't able to from time to time, due to narrow sections of the course, other participants blocking the way, etc.

I run Disney races much differently that I run smaller, local events. At the smaller races, I'm nearly always able to move to my right for walk intervals and I always have plenty of time to do so. I've also always had plenty of room to pass slower runners/walkers during run intervals. Those things just don't happen as much in Disney races. My approach at Princess (and shout-out to Coach Charles, here, for his advice to reduce the zig-zagging - it worked!) was to run like I drive on our very congested Florida roadways: defensively. I did my best to make sure I was in no one's way when I slowed to walk, skipped some run or walk intervals when I couldn't transition safely, looked to see what the people around me were doing (in some parts, the entire left side of the course was walkers with runners on right - I followed suit and walked on the left in those cases, to be safe), and waited for an opening that required no more than a step or two left or right to pass slower folks. I can't promise that I was never, at any point, in someone's way, but I think I did the best I could to avoid that. And I wound up having a great race, on top of it: I spent nearly all of miles 8 through the finish passing people, but never felt like they were badly in my way and I was able to do so without adding much distance to my total at all (13.15, according to my GPS.)

 

[WhereInFlorida]

Common sense is just lost at these events and I do not understand it. The number of banana peels in the middle of the road, through wet pavement water stations was unreal. What are people thinking throwing the peels in the middle of the road... have they never seen cartoons and what happens when people step on them?

 

[MoonFaerie]

The thing that I actually found the rudest during the Princess Half was the guy (that wasn't running it) that proposed to his Princess (that was running it) right in front of the castle. We came to a complete standstill, just waiting to move again. Sweet for the couple, very inconsiderate of the thousands of runners waiting.

I was disappointed in not actually being able to run through the castle. Shuffling through the castle in a mob was not what I was expecting at all. I also didn't get to run across the finish thanks to large groups of people walking across all arm in arm.

When I think of my internet friend that had the sweeper bus pull out right in front of her at mile 8, all I can think is that Proposal Guy and the time she lost standing there cost her finishing and getting her coast to coast medal. She got swept by literally seconds, and I know I lost more than mere seconds there. My mile through the Magic Kingdom was 5 mins slower than all the miles leading up to it, and I only stopped for 1-2 mins for a pic in front of the castle.

 

[Lawyer Mommy]

I truly don't think a video or PA address will help in the least. I think you will always have a a fair number of people in a large race that caters to casual runners who don't know or don't care about proper race etiquette. I also think, based on personal experience, you'll always have a fair number of people who want to do the right things but aren't able to from time to time, due to narrow sections of the course, other participants blocking the way, etc.

I run Disney races much differently that I run smaller, local events. At the smaller races, I'm nearly always able to move to my right for walk intervals and I always have plenty of time to do so. I've also always had plenty of room to pass slower runners/walkers during run intervals. Those things just don't happen as much in Disney races. My approach at Princess (and shout-out to Coach Charles, here, for his advice to reduce the zig-zagging - it worked!) was to run like I drive on our very congested Florida roadways: defensively. I did my best to make sure I was in no one's way when I slowed to walk, skipped some run or walk intervals when I couldn't transition safely, looked to see what the people around me were doing (in some parts, the entire left side of the course was walkers with runners on right - I followed suit and walked on the left in those cases, to be safe), and waited for an opening that required no more than a step or two left or right to pass slower folks. I can't promise that I was never, at any point, in someone's way, but I think I did the best I could to avoid that. And I wound up having a great race, on top of it: I spent nearly all of miles 8 through the finish passing people, but never felt like they were badly in my way and I was able to do so without adding much distance to my total at all (13.15, according to my GPS.)

Your approach makes a lot of sense to me, and I wish I'd approached the Princess that way. You're right that sometimes the walkers were on the left, and I just would think that they were doing it wrong. The walkers were supposed to be on the right. Going with the flow would have made a lot more sense. And your efforts not to zig zag were great! My total distance according to my GPS was 13.7 miles! Running through Epcot, I could totally feel that I was over the 13.1 limit too! I was so ready to be done.

I still think a video would help. It would at least put most people on the same page. There will always be those who do not care, but I actually think that is the minority.

 

[DOOM1001]

I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to include it in your race packet. One thing that honestly blew my mind was how many people stopped on the side of the road at the beginning of the race to relieve themselves!

Had to be done,it's not every day you get a chance to pee on the side of World Dr.Now when I'm driving into MK on World Dr. with other people I can brag about literally having done everything at Disney.

 

[Stitch_lover_Sith]

Had to be done,it's not every day you get a chance to pee on the side of World Dr.Now when I'm driving into MK on World Dr. with other people I can brag about literally having done everything at Disney.

This post literally had me laughing out loud. Well said. I would like to add to that sometimes the porta let lines are just too long.

So I am going to just say something, the worst race and worst offenders I have ever come across was the Japanese at Honolulu marathon. Come to a dead stop on a downhill to take a picture only they can understand. Disney was a welcome change.

 

[goofeygirl]

I don't think videos would help. It would require someone to stop and look at it and then think and take note about it.
Its the same problem in other areas. I live near a bike trail that not only hosts bikes, but walkers, runners, horses and various types of skaters. There are dogs too.
People are told to walk against traffic (they don't) to not walk side by side as to allow others to pass (they don't). The cyclists are told that when they stop to pull off to the side of the trail and allow others to pass (they don't).
If you are on a bicycle and you call out 'on your left' the side by side walkers or cyclists need to get in line to allow you to pass but sometimes they don't. I guess they think, if you want to pass me than you have to figure out a way to do it because thats not my problem.
This issue being on the bike trail or the Disney marathon weekend will always be an problem when you are dealing with large crowds. You can tell them and show them and make them read it but as far as they are concerned, its not about them. You are not talking about them.
So overall I think it wouldn't work.

 

[cewait]

This post literally had me laughing out loud. Well said. I would like to add to that sometimes the porta let lines are just too long.

So I am going to just say something, the worst race and worst offenders I have ever come across was the Japanese at Honolulu marathon. Come to a dead stop on a downhill to take a picture only they can understand. Disney was a welcome change.

Actually, they were at Disney on 2013 as well. The mile 20 extravaganza was awash with groups stopped in the middle of the danged road taking photos. Not nearly as bad as Honolulu, but bad enough so that I was ready to bowl through a group or two.

 

[cewait]

I don't think videos would help. It would require someone to stop and look at it and then think and take note about it.
Its the same problem in other areas. I live near a bike trail that not only hosts bikes, but walkers, runners, horses and various types of skaters. There are dogs too.
People are told to walk against traffic (they don't) to not walk side by side as to allow others to pass (they don't). The cyclists are told that when they stop to pull off to the side of the trail and allow others to pass (they don't).
If you are on a bicycle and you call out 'on your left' the side by side walkers or cyclists need to get in line to allow you to pass but sometimes they don't. I guess they think, if you want to pass me than you have to figure out a way to do it because thats not my problem.
This issue being on the bike trail or the Disney marathon weekend will always be an problem when you are dealing with large crowds. You can tell them and show them and make them read it but as far as they are concerned, its not about them. You are not talking about them.
So overall I think it wouldn't work.

Here in the Houston area, we cyclists have a strong culture of verbally calling out intentions (other cities do as well but when I ride in certain events in other cities I hear very little). I have learned through the years that walkers on my single track course do not fully understand what "on your left" means. Maybe half will move LEFT thinking I am coming through on the right. I have morphed that call to hold your line. I guess what got me thinking was that if I get out early on the single track, walkers (who are not allowed on the tack) and their pets are not expecting a cyclist on the path.