R Card? (Debate)

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by poohandwendy
....my guess is that 18 year olds were expected to be adult like back then. And they were. Then came the "parenting(protecting) til they are 30" mentality....

MTE.

 

[Betsyt82]

quote:
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Originally posted by poohandwendy
....my guess is that 18 year olds were expected to be adult like back then. And they were. Then came the "parenting(protecting) til they are 30" mentality....
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Right on!

 

[Maleficent13]

Originally posted by poohandwendy
Ok, gotta don my flame retardant suit for this one....my guess is that 18 year olds were expected to be adult like back then. And they were. Then came the "parenting(protecting) til they are 30" mentality....the result was the most immature young adults in the history of the world.

(I KNOW that not all young adults are immature, but for the many who are, I blame the parents for not doing their job and preparing them for adulthood well before they graduate from HS) The few that are mature lose due to the idiots.

JMHO

Had to add MTE and ITA.

 

[stinkerbelle]

Originally posted by poohandwendy
(I KNOW that not all young adults are immature, but for the many who are, I blame the parents for not doing their job and preparing them for adulthood well before they graduate from HS) The few that are mature lose due to the idiots.

JMHO

Ok - MAYBE it's because times are different now? Most don't "leave the nest" at 18. Most go to school and return to their parents house during breaks. Still on their parents health insurance, still living under their parents roof....still being teenagers, without adult responsibilities yet?

 

[Toby'sFriend]

. Kids grow up (and in some cases are encouraged to grow up) too soon these days. To me, the R card looks like one more way for kids to grow up too soon.

There is a difference between "growing up too soon" and expecting your kids to mature appropriately.

When my sons reach age 16 they will be expected to maintain good grades in High School as well as work at a Part-Time job to pay for their automobiles and save a little for college. Those are some pretty adult responsibilities and when a teen performs them then I see nothing wrong with giving them a few adult rights.

There is nothing magical about the 18th birthday. A person doesn't wake up one morning suddenly much more "adult" than what they were the day before when they were only 17yo. I've always gradually given my kids more responsibility, and then more freedom as they prove they can handle that responsibility. If they screw up then the freedom is taken away again.

These cards are simply another way to follow that path.

 

[caitycaity]

He *is* dealing with it - he's just saying (accurately IMNSHO) it's bull**** that he can't have a glass of good wine with his CG pork tenderloin.

actually, i don't know about disney reataurants, but a lot of upscale restaurants will serve people under 21 a glass of wine with dinner when they are with their parents.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

Raising the legal drinking age in New York anyway had to do with drinking and driving. Young adults (under 25) have a hands down lock on reaction time when it comes to driving. Unfortunately that is coupled with a total lack of experience behind the wheel...or behind the bottle.

And, FWIW, I'm a year older than when they started raising the drinking age in NY. I think I know one person from my high school graduating class that struck out on their own after high school. There were probably more but going off completely on your own was NOT the norm. Mommy and Daddy did take care of us.

If you lower the drinking age again you will resume coupling an inexperienced driver with alcohol. One has to wonder if there was a better way to handle this. DWI laws are a heck of a lot tougher now than they were back then...I would think most kids know a DWI charge is a mighty serious thing. So lowering the age could be doable. I could see experimentally lowering it to 19 to see what happens.

As for the movie cards. Seems like a fine idea. Gives the theatre solid grounds for tossing out some kids without tossing them all.

 

[poohandwendy]

Ok - MAYBE it's because times are different now? Most don't "leave the nest" at 18. Most go to school and return to their parents house during breaks. Still on their parents health insurance, still living under their parents roof....still being teenagers, without adult responsibilities yet?

No, times aren't different, parents are. Parents aren't encouraging mature behavior. They are going to the college to talk to their 'professors' about their kids grades/schedules, they are typing their school reports in middle and high shool, they are writing their resumes, they are looking for their kids jobs, calling their employers when their kids are sick...the list goes on and on....

I DO expect my children to leave the nest when they are finished with HS. Whether that be college or a job and a new apartment. They know that they are expected to have plans to leave the nest after HS in some capacity. Yes, they will come home for college breaks, but they will be adults and expected to act as such. I do not see 18 yos as children. I also don't see them as 'teenagers' when they are legally adults. The process of preparing them happens WAY before the end of HS, IMO. Unfortuntately, many parents see their adult children and older teens as just kids who cannot handle anything. With that mentality, of course they can't.

When you set the bar low, you cannot expect them to achieve high standards can you?

 

[stinkerbelle]

Originally posted by poohandwendy
No, times aren't different, parents are. Parents aren't encouraging mature behavior. They are going to the college to talk to their 'professors' about their kids grades/schedules, they are typing their school reports in middle and high shool, they are writing their resumes, they are looking for their kids jobs, calling their employers when their kids are sick...the list goes on and on....

wow - i'd love to meet these parents.

being 27 years old...I never knew any parents that acted as such.

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by poohandwendy
calling their employers when their kids are sick...

Minor quibble here, but I don't have a problem with that one. I've had my roommate call me in when I've been so sick that talking would just make me more miserable, and I've done the same for her.

 

[Maleficent13]

Originally posted by stinkerbelle
wow - i'd love to meet these parents.

being 27 years old...I never knew any parents that acted as such.

As a former employee at a retail store where you had to be 18 to be hired, I can tell you they abound. If I had a nickel for everytime Momma Jones called and said "Johnny's sick today and he can't come in" or even better, "Johnny can't work today because we've planned a family picnic and everyone will be so disappointed if he can't attend. So we'll just send him along tomorrow, okay?" Or the parents who came into the store after a disciplinary action against little Johnny and reamed the manager a new one while standing at the cash register...

All true stories, and very plentiful in my personal experience...

 

[poohandwendy]

Minor quibble here, but I don't have a problem with that one. I've had my roommate call me in when I've been so sick that talking would just make me more miserable, and I've done the same for her.

Well, I thinkt here are exceptions (I am not talking about horribly ill, I am talking about minor flu). I will give you an example:

19 yo who works in our salon. Lives in an apt with her boyfriend, her mother calls EVERYTIME she is sick to report her off for the day. She had to call her mother to even say she was sick. Another (17 yo) had her mother call to say she was quitting her job and wanted her last paycheck. (My boss refused to give the last paycheck to anyone but the employee) Please tell me why employers are dealing with mommies? It is not unsual here at all. Why should an employer take an empoyee seriously when they are having mommy call everytime they will be sick or late?

 

[faithinkarma]

Originally posted by Maleficent13
As a former employee at a retail store where you had to be 18 to be hired, I can tell you they abound. If I had a nickel for everytime Momma Jones called and said "Johnny's sick today and he can't come in" or even better, "Johnny can't work today because we've planned a family picnic and everyone will be so disappointed if he can't attend. So we'll just send him along tomorrow, okay?" Or the parents who came into the store after a disciplinary action against little Johnny and reamed the manager a new one while standing at the cash register...

All true stories, and very plentiful in my personal experience...

Yep ! And then Johnny turns 30 and still can't stand on his own two feet and the parents are still wondering what they did wrong.

 

[MHopkins2]

Uh, please ignore my previous quibble! I didn't realize the extent of the ridiculousness y'all were talking about. Sheesh!

 

[poohandwendy]

LOL< MH, I knew what you were talking about. I called in for my husband once when he was puking non stop.

When it comes to lowering the drinking age to 18, at this point I would say NO. I would feel differently if I felt the majority of parents were raising mature 18 yos. They just don't seem to be around here. So, for societies sake, I would have to say no.

 

[stinkerbelle]

I worked a fast food place form age 17 until after I graduated college (they let me back on breaks)

If my mother ever walked in and spoke to MY manager like that - I would have moved out of the house.

That's absolutly NTUS that parents would do that. I apologize that I sounded so naive when I said I've never seen parents do that...my parents taught me to stand on my own two feet...she never bailed me out of anything.

BUT - I still don't see how parents 'babying' their children and lowering the drinking age/allowing them to see R-Rated movies before age 17 are hand-in-hand.

 

[Maleficent13]

Originally posted by stinkerbelle
BUT - I still don't see how parents 'babying' their children and lowering the drinking age/allowing them to see R-Rated movies before age 17 are hand-in-hand.

I think the side debate got started because we were talking about why they raised the drinking age from 18 to 21, and somoene speculated they had to raise it because today's 18 yr olds were nowhere near as mature as the 18 yr olds were when drinking was allowed at that age.

Did that make sense?

 

[Lewisc]

Originally posted by doubletrouble_vb
Raising the legal drinking age in New York anyway had to do with drinking and driving. Young adults (under 25) have a hands down lock on reaction time when it comes to driving. Unfortunately that is coupled with a total lack of experience behind the wheel...or behind the bottle.

Actually it was a result of a FEDERAL law that basically said that the states had to raise the drinking age to 21 or get screwed out of some their share of the highway tax revenue.

Same thing that was done to make the states lower the speed limit to 55 MPH.

It was done at a time in which the attitude toward DWI was a lot more tolerant and the rules were not as strict as they are now. Really no reason to allow DWI at any age. Enforce the DWI laws and possibly have lower blood alcohol levels from younger drivers makes more sense than just having an age 21 drinking age.

Name another activity requires the person be age 21 to be considered adult.

 

[stinkerbelle]

Originally posted by Maleficent13
I think the side debate got started because we were talking about why they raised the drinking age from 18 to 21, and somoene speculated they had to raise it because today's 18 yr olds were nowhere near as mature as the 18 yr olds were when drinking was allowed at that age.

Did that make sense?

ahh - ok - gotcha (sorry I got lost there.)

umm...no one better tell the 18 year olds this...just another thing for them to blame their parents for!

 

[Son of the Morning]

I believe that an overly conservative stance on drinking has really kicked this country in the *** in regards to the number of irresponsible teenage drinkers.

Here's something I pulled from my journal this past March:

"We had another AFS student guest speaker in Sociology... a senior from Quebec.

...

When asked what the biggest adjustment was in coming to America, she said it wasn't being able to drink. While she said that to legally buy alcohol, you had to be 18, drinking was just not a big deal: It was very common. She recounted times where she'd just have a Tequila with her mom or a beer with her grandmother, and always, a wine with dinner. And drunkeness or irresponsible drinking was uncommon... and frowned upon. Imagine that!

Of course, a full-scale removal of the age restrictions now would lead to days, or weeks, or months of rampant binging, but I'm inclined to think that it would balance out in the end. I believe that what we need to do is ease back on the restrictions... start to lessen the age requirements and stop the zero-tolerance bull****: Allow a kid to have a glass of wine with dinner... it's good for them.