Questions on my first purchase

[rwthompson82]

Hi All,

I have read a lot of threads, and would appreciate some expert advice before we go ahead and start making offers. Any information would be great!

We have decided to purchase AKV resale. This is the only resort we have stayed at, but we have visited all others except VWL, SSR, and OKW. The 2057 date is important to us. We also need 1 BR units. We thought AKV had the best value for 1 BR and we loved the resort. Is there something I'm missing here? VGF is expensive and BLT is okay, but we didn't love it. Poly has no 1 BR and VWL and the Epcot resorts are 2042. We are not that interested in the DS resorts. Anything I'm missing here?

For the number of points, since we are Canadian and have to fly, we are planning trips for every 2nd year. My thought therefor is to buy half the points (or 60%) of the points we need. Our thought here is we can always buy another small contract if we decide we need more points, and it gives us flexibility later (at an increased cost per point).

For use year, we will be traveling generally between Jan - Mar, so we were thinking Nov or Dec UY.

Anything else I should think about?

Thanks!

 

[pork]

I'm not sure what room category you're looking at but I'd make sure to have enough points for a standard. Even owning at AKV the value class rooms can be hard to get.

 

[rwthompson82]

I'm not sure what room category you're looking at but I'd make sure to have enough points for a standard. Even owning at AKV the value class rooms can be hard to get.

Thanks. We were looking for 120 points which would be at least a week in a standard every other year (or 6 nights in premier season). But if we can get a value, great.

 

[dsnydaddy]

I would also plan for an expanding/aging family. I was happy with studio accommodations when my kids were very young and had no problem sharing a bed, but now that they are older, it's becoming more and more not an option. Also, now that they have near adult tastes in food, they are much more expensive to feed. As a result a room that will sleep 5 with a kitchen became the biggest reason I bought into DVC.

 

[disneynutz]

Visiting a resort and staying in a room there are two different things IMO. Room stays you experience the views, where the trash rooms are, the noise, the room layout and style. It's an important part of choosing a home resort.

We own AKV and while nice, the novelty of the animals has worn off. The rooms were very dark, waiting to see what the new room color looks like. The location is remote, we like resorts that have several things to do like BWV. If you don't want to hang at BWV, you have the boardwalk and 4 other resorts and 2 parks within walking distance.

Bill

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

The part about AKV that is brought up is that it's possible to book there at 7 months which is why it's possible to own another resort, such as SSR, which has similar up front costs but lower dues. However, if you plan to book in the home priority and will look to get the values then owning AKV can change those numbers. Otherwise the "thing" is that you're paying a little bit more per year to get the room that you could get for a little less. But that's not a terrible thing to just go ahead and book what you want in the 11-7 month period.

The UY's you are looking at are what I would for similar travel times.

And buying 50-60% of the points you will need for your average stay and using banking or borrowing to stay every 2 years is also the correct thought.

 

[rwthompson82]

Visiting a resort and staying in a room there are two different things IMO. Room stays you experience the views, where the trash rooms are, the noise, the room layout and style. It's an important part of choosing a home resort.

We own AKV and while nice, the novelty of the animals has worn off. The rooms were very dark, waiting to see what the new room color looks like. The location is remote, we like resorts that have several things to do like BWV. If you don't want to hang at BWV, you have the boardwalk and 4 other resorts and 2 parks within walking distance.

Bill

Thanks Bill. I agree with most of what you say. BWV is a great resort, but my children didn't really enjoy the Epcot area as much as we did. I imagine this will change in 10 years, but I can't predict the future.

I would ideally like to travel and do a VWL, BWV split stay, but since we will not be going every year, it will take will cut into they pay back.

I also think that from time to time we should be able to get (non-standard) 1 BR units at 7 months or rent points as if absolutely necessary. And, if we are really wrong, we can always sell and rebuy.

The part about AKV that is brought up is that it's possible to book there at 7 months which is why it's possible to own another resort, such as SSR, which has similar up front costs but lower dues. However, if you plan to book in the home priority and will look to get the values then owning AKV can change those numbers. Otherwise the "thing" is that you're paying a little bit more per year to get the room that you could get for a little less. But that's not a terrible thing to just go ahead and book what you want in the 11-7 month period.

The UY's you are looking at are what I would for similar travel times.

And buying 50-60% of the points you will need for your average stay and using banking or borrowing to stay every 2 years is also the correct thought.

At this point, we can easily plan out vacations at 11 months, so I expect that I will be able to get some values from time to time. I also think since we will be looking for 1 BR units, we can book at other resorts at 7 months (maybe).

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

At this point, we can easily plan out vacations at 11 months, so I expect that I will be able to get some values from time to time. I also think since we will be looking for 1 BR units, we can book at other resorts at 7 months (maybe).

Currently the months you are looking to go are generally easy to book at 7 months. I have not doubt you will get 1BR's at other locations and if you book at 11 months will likely get the 1BR values most, if not every time.

 

[Minniesgal]

We are AKV owners and love it but we also love the VGF 1 bedrooms they are so roomy. So we ended up with a second contract at VGF. It is now our favourite resort.

 

[disneynutz]

Thanks Bill. I agree with most of what you say. BWV is a great resort, but my children didn't really enjoy the Epcot area as much as we did. I imagine this will change in 10 years, but I can't predict the future.
I would ideally like to travel and do a VWL, BWV split stay, but since we will not be going every year, it will take will cut into they pay back.
I also think that from time to time we should be able to get (non-standard) 1 BR units at 7 months or rent points as if absolutely necessary. And, if we are really wrong, we can always sell and rebuy.

At this point, we can easily plan out vacations at 11 months, so I expect that I will be able to get some values from time to time. I also think since we will be looking for 1 BR units, we can book at other resorts at 7 months (maybe).

You bring up an important point. Many of us offer suggestions based on our experiences and tastes hoping to keep you from making the same mistakes that we may have. Your situation and taste may be different. The important part is that you can always sell if things don't work out. It may cost you some money but being able to enjoy your expensive vacation in the resort and room that you want is priceless in my book. Holding on to a contract that doesn't make you happy is a mistake.

Bill

 

[Dean]

Thanks. We were looking for 120 points which would be at least a week in a standard every other year (or 6 nights in premier season). But if we can get a value, great.

I'd suggest you consider more points than you're looking at for future options and in case there are changes later such as a reallocation, maybe 150-170. Also I'd suggest you at least consider SSR. It'll be cheaper long term and it's likely you can get into AKV standard routinely plus it'll have the standard view options going forward. And if you plan to use your points elsewhere, it'll be a better value. If you end up doing it the way you've laid out AKV likely is the best option though, it's just that most don't end up using it exactly the way they thought they would going in.

 

[rwthompson82]

We are AKV owners and love it but we also love the VGF 1 bedrooms they are so roomy. So we ended up with a second contract at VGF. It is now our favourite resort.

If money was no object, we would love VGF.

You bring up an important point. Many of us offer suggestions based on our experiences and tastes hoping to keep you from making the same mistakes that we may have. Your situation and taste may be different. The important part is that you can always sell if things don't work out. It may cost you some money but being able to enjoy your expensive vacation in the resort and room that you want is priceless in my book. Holding on to a contract that doesn't make you happy is a mistake.

Bill

I agree completely. There is no point to owning if the contract doesn't make us happy.

I'd suggest you consider more points than you're looking at for future options and in case there are changes later such as a reallocation, maybe 150-170. Also I'd suggest you at least consider SSR. It'll be cheaper long term and it's likely you can get into AKV standard routinely plus it'll have the standard view options going forward. And if you plan to use your points elsewhere, it'll be a better value. If you end up doing it the way you've laid out AKV likely is the best option though, it's just that most don't end up using it exactly the way they thought they would going in.

I'm not that concerned with re-allocation, as I will be buying more points than I need already. If something changes, we will consider a 50 point add on. We feel we would rather pay extra $/point later than spend more up front for something we may never use. We have considered SSR, but based on my numbers, we would only need to get value rooms once per 2-3 trips to break even on the cost. We also get an extra 3 years.

 

[ColinBlair]

Just to cover anything you may have missed, make sure you used the 2017 point chart for SSR for your numbers since the new standard view has lower point requirements than the 2016 chart. There are also extended OKW contracts available with the same end year as AKV. I know Dean in particular is worried about what will happen at OKW when the contracts that opted out revert to DVD ownership so that isn't a recommendation, just pointing it out.

 

[Dean]

I'm not that concerned with re-allocation, as I will be buying more points than I need already. If something changes, we will consider a 50 point add on. We feel we would rather pay extra $/point later than spend more up front for something we may never use. We have considered SSR, but based on my numbers, we would only need to get value rooms once per 2-3 trips to break even on the cost. We also get an extra 3 years.

The last time I ran the numbers was before the change in the SSR points but it wouldn't matter for this situation. To break even buying AKV for value vs SSR for standard one had to both stay in value rooms at least 2/3 of the time, buy the proportionate lower points totals at AKV and never get value using SSR points. It doesn't take much of trying other things or not being able to get value rooms even at 11 months out to make SSR cheaper even with the higher number of points. If it doesn't interest you that's appropriate but the numbers are more different than most people realize. AKV for the same number of points is at least 20% more long term given the same buy in. Personally I don't see a difference between 2054 and 2057 RTU dates but I know some do.

 

[rwthompson82]

The last time I ran the numbers was before the change in the SSR points but it wouldn't matter for this situation. To break even buying AKV for value vs SSR for standard one had to both stay in value rooms at least 2/3 of the time, buy the proportionate lower points totals at AKV and never get value using SSR points. It doesn't take much of trying other things or not being able to get value rooms even at 11 months out to make SSR cheaper even with the higher number of points. If it doesn't interest you that's appropriate but the numbers are more different than most people realize. AKV for the same number of points is at least 20% more long term given the same buy in. Personally I don't see a difference between 2054 and 2057 RTU dates but I know some do.

I ran the numbers again, and you are right. I made the mistake of not deducting maintenance fees from the profit I would get by renting the excess points. Rookie mistake!

Now I will have something to think about...

 

[Dean]

I ran the numbers again, and you are right. I made the mistake of not deducting maintenance fees from the profit I would get by renting the excess points. Rookie mistake!

Now I will have something to think about...

If you're set on AKV most of the time, it's not that big of a deal but from a financial standpoint it can be significant. I also tend to believe the dues at SSR will hold better than all else other than running about the same long term as BLT.

 

[drusba]

Some additonal points:

Note that there is no Novermber use year. December would be ideal if your travel time is always between Jan and March. However, if you think you will be considering lower point cost October or November times in the future, you could also consider a September or October use year.

Do not know your family size. The standard and savanna view 1BRs at AKV sleep five with a king in the bedroom, queen pull out sofa and twin size pull out chair in the living room. Thus, AKV allows you to grow to five, if not yet there, and still use the 1BR. However, the values are smaller rooms and do not have that sleeper chair and do not allow 5.

As to getting a value 1BR during Jan to March, one should always try to book exactly 11 months out online at 8 a.m. If you do that, your risk of being beat out by others at 11 months out is fairly low and will mainly exist for the period of Jan 1 through the Sunday of Marathon weekend (January 8 this year). Thereafter in Jan through March, you should be able to get a value 1BR as long as you book exactly 11 month out.

In the battle you may be having with yourself over whether you should buy AKV or just buy SSR and mainly stay at AKV standard, you may have considerations other than which is actually less expensive when annual dues are also considered. The AKV 11 month window gives the comfort of certainty. Also, there is the issue of airfare -- when is the usual best time where you are located to get the more favorable airfares to Orlando. If that is more than 7 months out from desired dates, that AKV certainty factor at 11 months would also assure you could purchase desired flights and not have to pay to change them.

 

[rwthompson82]

Some additonal points:

Note that there is no Novermber use year. December would be ideal if your travel time is always between Jan and March. However, if you think you will be considering lower point cost October or November times in the future, you could also consider a September or October use year.

Do not know your family size. The standard and savanna view 1BRs at AKV sleep five with a king in the bedroom, queen pull out sofa and twin size pull out chair in the living room. Thus, AKV allows you to grow to five, if not yet there, and still use the 1BR. However, the values are smaller rooms and do not have that sleeper chair and do not allow 5.

As to getting a value 1BR during Jan to March, one should always try to book exactly 11 months out online at 8 a.m. If you do that, your risk of being beat out by others at 11 months out is fairly low and will mainly exist for the period of Jan 1 through the Sunday of Marathon weekend (January 8 this year). Thereafter in Jan through March, you should be able to get a value 1BR as long as you book exactly 11 month out.

In the battle you may be having with yourself over whether you should buy AKV or just buy SSR and mainly stay at AKV standard, you may have considerations other than which is actually less expensive when annual dues are also considered. The AKV 11 month window gives the comfort of certainty. Also, there is the issue of airfare -- when is the usual best time where you are located to get the more favorable airfares to Orlando. If that is more than 7 months out from desired dates, that AKV certainty factor at 11 months would also assure you could purchase desired flights and not have to pay to change them.

Thanks for the feedback. We only have 4 in our family so far. I did figure out there was no November use year, we will be looking for October or December.

From my numbers, the extra cost will work out to $135 extra per year (13% increase, 2016 dollars), assuming that we stay value 50% of the time, and we can transfer an extra 30 points when we do for a profit of $6/point (also assumes 3% maintenance fee increase at both resorts, 2% general inflation, purchase of 120 points $82 for SSR and $85 for AKV). It may not be realistic to transfer that few points, I don't know. If we couldn't do that, the difference is $165/year (But then of course we would have more points to use for an extra day). We would also get an extra 3 years as AKV owners. The difference in Maintenance fees in 2050 is over $350 (assuming both resorts increase an average of 3%).

Whether that is worth the uncertainty, I don't know. We live in the Toronto area, so there are lots of options for flights to Orlando (and we could fly out of BUF if needed too). Generally, we find flights cheapest around 3-4 months out.

I'm doing a bit more research on availability of 1 Bedroom units at all of the resorts, to see what options we will have at 7 months. The biggest problem of course is there are no guarantees. And with Poly being sold now, any Poly owners that want 1 BR units will be added to the pool of people looking at 7 months.

 

[ColinBlair]

If it helps, my opinion is that factoring in inflation and increasing maintenance fees is only useful when evaluating DVC as a whole as part of your overall financial planning. So, you do it a the beginning of the process when deciding if DVC makes sense to you and you do it at the end of the decision process to make sure you didn't let yourself creep higher than you meant to. At the point where you are comparing different resorts to each other, all of that future guessing just adds lots of extra noise which doesn't mean much since it is all guesswork anyway.

 

[drusba]

One bedrooms tend to be the last rooms to fill at the WDW resorts except for VGF, where dedicated 2BRs and GVs last the longest, BLT standard and Theme Park view where 1BRs occassionally fill before studios, and AKV club level and value where they often do last longer than studios and 2BRs but for those that can sometimes mean a difference of only hours.

Otherwise for 1BRs here is the current annual patterns at 7 months out at WDW, which takes into consideration that you will be looking for 6 or 7 nights in a row. From the Monday after Marathon weekend in January until late Sep, DVC's low to moderate demand season at WDW, you will usually find the following 1BRs open at 7 months out and usually for some time beyond the 7 month window: SSR, OKW, BCV, BWV (incuding standard and boardwalk view), VGF, BLT lake view and usually theme park view, and AKV standard and savanna view. During that time, you can sometimes get lucky and also find an AKV value 1BR or BLT standard 1BR, although if that occurs it will more likely be during DVC's lowest demand times of the year -- Feb 1 to the Thursday before Presidents' Day weekend in mid-February, Feb after the Princess half-marathon weekend to about mid-March, last week of April, and July 10 to end of July.

DVC's high to extremely high demand season at WDW runs from late September to marathon weekend in Jan. For 1BRs, SSR, OKW and AKV standard and savanna view will usually be open. AKV club level, value and BLT standard are usually out of the question (particularly for any 6 or 7 night stay). BCV, BWV standard and boardwalk view, and VGF 1BRs are also low probability but sometimes you can get lucky. BWV pool/garden is hit or miss much of time with higher chance of hitting early Oct, Mid-Nov after Food & Wine ends and before Thanksgiving week begins, third week of December, and Jan 3 until the Thursday of marathon weekend. VWL is also hit or miss much of the time but its 1BRs tend to be open even more than BWV pool garden 1BRs.