Question for Catholics

[Buckalew11]

Yes, they have to believe, that is, accept the gift of salvation (as the Bible states).

Just wondering. It sounded like you meant you just thought since Jesus died for sin that all were forgiven. I didn't know what you believed from past posts so I thought I'd ask.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

I've been Catholic all my life-- being raised Catholic, you get a very different viewpoint on the faith than someone who comes into the faith as an adult. I sponsored my GF Nikkie when she became Catholic three years ago. We took intensive classes on the church, and everyone was invited to ask any question they had. Our priest teaching the class was open and honest and answered everyone's questions as best as he could. This was important, because there is so much misinformation about the church out there. As best as I understand, here is the modern church's teaching:

For sin to be present, the following two conditions must be met:
1. The person must know the act is a sin, and
2. The person must commit the sin willingly, with intention.

Therefore, suicide may not be (and 99.9% of the time probably is not) a sin, because someone who commits suicide usually has some kind of mental illness that "caused" them to end their life-- therefore, they did not do it willingly, with full intention.

Also, the Catholic church teaches that we can never judge who is in heaven or hell, because we are mere mortals and don't understand everything about an individual's life. The judgement is left up to God-- not us, priests, or even the Pope.

Also, I wanted to clear up a bit about mortal sin. Mortal sin is not "unforgivable". It's not really an action either-- more like a state of being. It simply means that the person has closed themselves off from God. Someone who has commited a mortal sin can turn back to God and be forgiven.

Hopefully this helps a bit. If you have any other questions about the Catholic Church, I'll be glad to answer them. I'm not an expert, but I can always call on my brother (a Catholic youth minister with majors in philosophy and religious studies-- way smarter than me. )

God always forgives. You only need to accept what Jesus did on the cross.

God does not rank sin, and no matter how sin is defined, God forgives AND forgets it. Sin does not close ourselves from God. He sees not our sin, but the blood of His Son Jesus, who washes our sin clean.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Just wondering. It sounded like you meant you just thought since Jesus died for sin that all were forgiven. I didn't know what you believed from past posts so I thought I'd ask.

No problem. I should have included that essential point!.

 

[GarrettJD]

God always forgives. You only need to accept what Jesus did on the cross.

God does not rank sin, and no matter how sin is defined, God forgives AND forgets it. Sin does not close ourselves from God. He sees not our sin, but the blood of His Son Jesus, who washes our sin clean.

Actually, in many ways, I agree with you. I was just trying to explain the modern Catholic Church's position on things.

The Catholic Church's teaching on sin now is very different from the way I was taught as a child. I had one religion teacher who told me that our souls were like white pieces of paper, and every time we sinned, God marked a black mark on our souls, and if we had too many black marks when we died, we went to Hell. I didn't accept that then, and I don't agree with that now. That kind of teaching is probably mostly due to the poor quality of Catholic education in general. I've noticed that, as a whole, "cradle Catholics" (slang for those Catholic from birth) know less overall about their own religion than people of other religions know about their own religion.

 

[Mickey527]

I remember quite a few years ago, when I was a child, a neighbor committed suicide. Our catholic church would not allow the funeral mass to be held there and he could not be buried in a Catholic church.
Many things have changed since that time thank God, a few Popes and priests. Peggie

 

[numbersman]

The effect of suicide on one's soul doesn't need to be looked at from the viewpoint of any church, b/c it really doesn't matter what any church thinks about it. It matters what the Bible says about it. Does the Bible say explicitly anywhere that suicide will keep you from going to Heaven? No, not directly. What it does teach is that SIN keeps you from going to Heaven, unless you accept Jesus as your Savior, who died to cover all of our sins, not just some of them. That means that any sin can keep you out, unless your faith is in Jesus Christ. So, does that mean that each and every individual sin must be confessed before you can enter Heaven? Well, I don't believe so. We all sin each and every day, even those who have accepted Jesus still sin (see 1 John). We should continually be asking for forgiveness for our sins and striving to sin no more, however, we will never be perfect this side of Heaven, so we will still sin. But it is not the confession of each and every sin that gets us into Heaven, it is our saving faith in Jesus Christ. So if a Christian who has accepted Jesus commits a sin of any kind at 5 PM, and then gets in a car wreck and dies at 5:05 PM without having confessed that sin, is he kept from Heaven? No. Nowhere does the Bible teach that. God knows the condition of each man's heart, and He knows whether the person was "saved" or not. The same holds true of suicide. Is a person kept out of Heaven b/c they could not repent of the sin of suicide (by virtue of the fact that they have killed themselves)? No, for the same reasons as above. This doesn't give us a license to sin, as we should be striving to NOT sin. But it also doesn't condemn us for each and every mistake we make as Christians, b/c Jesus has covered our sins through his death on the cross.

It has nothing to do with Catholicism, hell, Heaven, or which religion you are. That is a teaching of the Bible.

 

[BelleMcNally]

It has nothing to do with Catholicism, hell, Heaven, or which religion you are. That is a teaching of the Bible.

That's all well and good, but the OP was asking for the Catholic stance on the matter.

 

[Crankyshank]

It used to be that if you committed suicide you could even be buried in a Catholic cemetary because it was a mortal sin to kill yourself (or anyone else for that matter)
Since Vatican II that has been lifted and the Church has changed their stance on suicide. I'm sure there are priests and nuns out there that still believe it's a mortal sin but it's not a belief espoused by the RCC any longer.

 

[BelleMcNally]

I've been Catholic all my life-- being raised Catholic, you get a very different viewpoint on the faith than someone who comes into the faith as an adult. I sponsored my GF Nikkie when she became Catholic three years ago. We took intensive classes on the church, and everyone was invited to ask any question they had. Our priest teaching the class was open and honest and answered everyone's questions as best as he could. This was important, because there is so much misinformation about the church out there. As best as I understand, here is the modern church's teaching:

For sin to be present, the following two conditions must be met:
1. The person must know the act is a sin, and
2. The person must commit the sin willingly, with intention.

Therefore, suicide may not be (and 99.9% of the time probably is not) a sin, because someone who commits suicide usually has some kind of mental illness that "caused" them to end their life-- therefore, they did not do it willingly, with full intention.

Yes, this is what I was taught as well.

 

[Crankyshank]

The effect of suicide on one's soul doesn't need to be looked at from the viewpoint of any church, b/c it really doesn't matter what any church thinks about it. It matters what the Bible says about it. Does the Bible say explicitly anywhere that suicide will keep you from going to Heaven? No, not directly. What it does teach is that SIN keeps you from going to Heaven, unless you accept Jesus as your Savior, who died to cover all of our sins, not just some of them. That means that any sin can keep you out, unless your faith is in Jesus Christ. So, does that mean that each and every individual sin must be confessed before you can enter Heaven? Well, I don't believe so. We all sin each and every day, even those who have accepted Jesus still sin (see 1 John). We should continually be asking for forgiveness for our sins and striving to sin no more, however, we will never be perfect this side of Heaven, so we will still sin. But it is not the confession of each and every sin that gets us into Heaven, it is our saving faith in Jesus Christ. So if a Christian who has accepted Jesus commits a sin of any kind at 5 PM, and then gets in a car wreck and dies at 5:05 PM without having confessed that sin, is he kept from Heaven? No. Nowhere does the Bible teach that. God knows the condition of each man's heart, and He knows whether the person was "saved" or not. The same holds true of suicide. Is a person kept out of Heaven b/c they could not repent of the sin of suicide (by virtue of the fact that they have killed themselves)? No, for the same reasons as above. This doesn't give us a license to sin, as we should be striving to NOT sin. But it also doesn't condemn us for each and every mistake we make as Christians, b/c Jesus has covered our sins through his death on the cross.

It has nothing to do with Catholicism, hell, Heaven, or which religion you are. That is a teaching of the Bible.

Well now that's fine and dandy but the OP was asking about something specifically related to the Catholic Church. There's no need to turn this into a this is why Catholics are wrong thread.

 

[mrsltg]

Anyone who tells you they know where anyone is in the afterlife is a moron. No person has any idea what is in the heart of another person or what their relationship with God is. No one knows whether or not there was a heartfelt reconciliation prior to the last breath.

God bless your daughter's friend.

Erin

 

[numbersman]

Well now that's fine and dandy but the OP was asking about something specifically related to the Catholic Church. There's no need to turn this into a this is why Catholics are wrong thread.

No one's "turning" this thread into anything. All I said was that the answer behind whether suicide is a sin that will keep you out of Heaven doesn't lie with any church, but with the Bible. It is irrespective of Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc...

Don't turn it into more than it is.

 

[mickeyfan2]

My dd has a friend whose mother shot herself last week.
The funeral was like week.
I was not able to attend.
Another friend said that it was REALLY sad since the girl couldn't be comforted by knowing that her mom was in heaven, since Catholics believe that if you kill yourself you go to hell.

If she was mentally ill when she killed herself then she will be going to heaven, but just suicide then she does go to hell.

If that is the case, what is said at the funeral? Did they tell the little girl her mother is in hell?

I have never attended the funeral of somebody who committed suicide so this is just a guess. I think the same mass was performed and only G-d nows why she did this, so only he knows where she will end up.

 

[mickeyfan2]

p.s. i find it interesting that the catholic church believes that choosing to opt out of some technological "life support" options is out and out suicide and therefore a mortal sin (i guess the mental health of a suffering, terminaly ill person who does'nt want to be kept alive by artificial means is'nt worth consideration).

I have never heard this. No Catholic has to go on life support.

 

[mickeyfan2]

I've been Catholic all my life-- being raised Catholic, you get a very different viewpoint on the faith than someone who comes into the faith as an adult. I sponsored my GF Nikkie when she became Catholic three years ago. We took intensive classes on the church, and everyone was invited to ask any question they had. Our priest teaching the class was open and honest and answered everyone's questions as best as he could. This was important, because there is so much misinformation about the church out there. As best as I understand, here is the modern church's teaching:

For sin to be present, the following two conditions must be met:
1. The person must know the act is a sin, and
2. The person must commit the sin willingly, with intention.

Therefore, suicide may not be (and 99.9% of the time probably is not) a sin, because someone who commits suicide usually has some kind of mental illness that "caused" them to end their life-- therefore, they did not do it willingly, with full intention.

Also, the Catholic church teaches that we can never judge who is in heaven or hell, because we are mere mortals and don't understand everything about an individual's life. The judgement is left up to God-- not us, priests, or even the Pope.

Also, I wanted to clear up a bit about mortal sin. Mortal sin is not "unforgivable". It's not really an action either-- more like a state of being. It simply means that the person has closed themselves off from God. Someone who has commited a mortal sin can turn back to God and be forgiven.

Hopefully this helps a bit. If you have any other questions about the Catholic Church, I'll be glad to answer them. I'm not an expert, but I can always call on my brother (a Catholic youth minister with majors in philosophy and religious studies-- way smarter than me. )

Thank you for a great description.

 

[Mishetta]

We had a suicide family funeral several years ago (like maybe 4 or 5) & we are Catholic & I was surprised that the religious services were held at the funeral home. I asked why Grandma 'Smith's' (to protect the innocent) service was not held at the church & was told by other family that since she committed suicide, she could not have her final mass in the church. Actually, all but Communion was done during her service too.....so I'm confused now?

BTW, poor Grandma "Smith " commited suicide because she had been recently diagnosed with Lou Gehrig's disease & she didn't want to become a burden on her family. Is that sad or what?

 

[barkley]

I have never heard this. No Catholic has to go on life support.

they don't have to go on life support per se, but there is discussion and debate in the church as to what type of "end of life" treatments can be waived by a person and not be considered suicidal in nature. one of the big issues is with feeding and hydration tubes. the argument is weather voluntarly (as with and advance medical directive) to have a feeding tube/hydration tube withheld is acceptable. some catholics hold that "volunteering" to not take food or water results in death in any situation and should therefore be considered suicide.

 

[Mercy]

Jesus died for ALL sin.

Jesus' sacrifice was PERFECT. There is no sin (even if its "mortal" (what nonsense) that is not covered.


(I used to be Catholic, but this stuff about mortal sin and pergatory, etc. made me leave for a Bible church. )

I agree with your Joe, I left for the similar reasons. Catholic church has a lot of rules (man made), but very little biblical understanding.

 

[JennyMominRI]

God always forgives. You only need to accept what Jesus did on the cross.

God does not rank sin, and no matter how sin is defined, God forgives AND forgets it. Sin does not close ourselves from God. He sees not our sin, but the blood of His Son Jesus, who washes our sin clean.

I.
Edited because it was too offtopic. sorry

 

[sodaseller]

Priests are instructed during seminary formation that fidelity does not require than they refrain from positive words at a funeral, even if the decedent was known to have led a life that would suggest otherwise, as none know whether absolution was sought at the end, nor the mental state of the sinner that committed suicide. A sin must be committed in a clear mental state to incur separation, and that is usually not the case in a suicide. I know one suicide victim whose fumeral Mass was concelebrated by seven priests. He was former seminariam whom we now believe may have dropped out and been forever disturbed by sexual abuse ( he enetred at 13)