Question about military draft

[Laura]

It must be so nice on the streets, living there by choice.

Sure, some people are on the streets because of their own bad decisions. Some are there because they have nowhere else to go. Some are there because their parents are.

Guess I should start ignoring my local shelter's requests for donations, if the homeless have all the $$$ they need.

 

[sha_lyn]

It's like the saying... you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.
The programs are there. If someone refuses to take advantage of them, it is no ones fault but their own. How would not spending money on the miltary, make them take advantage of programs.
I also don't get the argument that "those are the boys who join the military". Do you have demographic that back that up. Please show us facts that show the % of homeless that join the miltary.

DH and I haven't met a single one in all the yrs of his miltary service (active and reserve), which BTW is 20 yrs this month. If those are the people joining, don't you think he would have met at least 1 in 20 years?

 

[ToriLammy]

Originally posted by Planogirl
Again I ask...

Many conservatives seem to want a larger military. How will that be accomplished since the inevitable likelihood under the current system might be a smaller one as reservists reach the end of their terms of service?

First I'd like to remind folks that the reason the Guard and Reserves picked up as much responsibility as they have today is because of the "Peace Dividend" most politicians and voters demanded at the end of the Cold War. Active Military forces were decreased and the Guard and Reserve increased because well, it costs less. "Everyone" was sure we'd never fight a war requiring lots of ground troops ever again - "everyone" was wrong.

Now to your question. By adding personnel authorizations to the active force while decreasing those Guard and Reserve they can increase the size of the military. To fill those authorizations they have numerous options available to them, the most frequently used is of course reenlistment bonuses. Back in the early 90s when they were decreasing the size of the military one way they did that was to lower the High Year of Tenure (how long a person can remain on active duty) - to increase the size of the military they can change those HYT restrictions (even just temporarily) - allowing an E-4 who has not made E-5 to stay over 10 years instead of forcing them out, allowing an E-6 who was supposed to retire at 20 to stay until 22. Basically just by doing the oppposite of what they did during the draw down times of the early 90s. While keeping those active duty members who want to stay in- they can increase their recruitment, again offering bonuses, etc.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

Laura,

Some people on the street have drug problems, alcholics, mental problems and we can't help them unless they want help. They choose not to get help.

I work with 108 families at a time, most do not have a high school diploma or a GED. Do they want to get one? 90% say no, can we make them get a GED and find a job. NO, we can't. You can not make someone do something. The families that I work with don't want to work, they don't want to go to school. WHy? THey make more money sitting at home. THey know the loop holes for welfare and they use them.

Some families do try, but most do not.

 

[poohandwendy]

Sure, why don't you? And why don't you ask these parents what happened to get them on the streets and in vans in the first place? ......

I already have, our church goes out a few times a year to round up homeless people to offer assistance and get them into shelters, me being one of the volunteers. Very sad, but the majority of time drug abuse and mental illness is what keeps them from seeking help.

Maybe we should make it easier to remove children from parents who refuse to seek help? No, that would be 'mean'.

 

[Laura]

Originally posted by gottaluvPluto
Laura,

Some people on the street have drug problems, alcholics, mental problems and we can't help them unless they want help. They choose not to get help.

I work with 108 families at a time, most do not have a high school diploma or a GED. Do they want to get one? 90% say no, can we make them get a GED and find a job. NO, we can't. You can not make someone do something. The families that I work with don't want to work, they don't want to go to school. WHy? THey make more money sitting at home. THey know the loop holes for welfare and they use them.

Some families do try, but most do not.

I'm fully aware that there are people who are gaming the system. I'm fully aware of the drug/alcohol/mental problems. But how can someone get a job when they can't go get a shower and get decent clothes? How can they be contacted by their employers? How can they afford ID? And what jobs can they get that will pay a living wage?

If the people you work with make more money sitting at home, it sounds like they HAVE a home.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

You can go to a shelter for a shower, interview clothes and you can use a phone number at a shelter for contact info. The shelter will even take you to the interview and help you prepare for the interview.

You need to finish high school for a decent wage.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

The people I work with have a home because of programs that we referred them to or they are living in a shelter. We had few families living in a tent, but we finally talked them into going to a shelter.

 

[Laura]

Originally posted by poohandwendy
I already have, our church goes out a few times a year to round up homeless people to offer assistance and get them into shelters, me being one of them. Very sad, but the majority of time drug abuse and mental illness is what keeps them from seeking help.

I know there are people who refuse help. I've had homeless people refuse my assistance too. Pride is also an issue, on top of mental illness and drugs. And I thank you for making the attempt on their behalf.

But the thing is, there ARE people who are trying to get off the streets. And part of me is maddest that they're on the streets in the first place. If we have such a great welfare system in place, why are these people not taking advantage of it before things start spiralling down the drain? Where is the prevention?

I know that Republicans want to help people. But just dismissing all homeless as living on the streets by choice, as gottaluvpluto did, just makes me sick. You can't blame them all. Blame lies elsewhere too.

Anyway, I'm done with you guys. If some of you want to believe people don't want to pick themselves up, go right ahead. I'll go ahead believing that some of them just can't.

 

[poohandwendy]

But how can someone get a job when they can't go get a shower and get decent clothes? How can they be contacted by their employers? How can they afford ID? And what jobs can they get that will pay a living wage?

EVERY person who seeks help, goes to a shelter and follows the advice of the people helping them would have a job, clothing, housing and food. I don't think you understand the severity of the refusal for help in homeless people. They may take it for a night or twon when it is cold, then they wander off again...as said before, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

 

[Laura]

Originally posted by gottaluvPluto
You can go to a shelter for a shower, interview clothes and you can use a phone number at a shelter for contact info. The shelter will even take you to the interview and help you prepare for the interview.

You need to finish high school for a decent wage.

One last thing because I typed my last reply while you posted this...

So what kinds of jobs are the homeless with mental illness and histories of drug abuse, time spent in prison going to get? How is someone with a mental illness supposed to get a job? Who's willing to hire these people?

Do you think that some of the people you're trying to help have tried before and failed?

And for the last time, I KNOW THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO REFUSE HELP. But that's too simple, too easy an answer for me. I can't just brush that issue off that easily. And then I hear you say they're taking advantage of the system. So which is it? People either refuse help or game the system?

Goodbye to this thread for good. And thanks for letting me know that even if you think that the homeless are homeless due to their own screw-ups and not anybody else's, at least you're trying to help. Thank you for that.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

Laura,

Do you know anyone on the street that has tried to get help and was refused help? If so, I would be willing to help that person get off the street. It is very easy to do.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

Laura,

I work with both, people who refuse help and people who take advatage of the system.

I do have to say that this year out of 108 families we are working with 3 are actually doing something to help themselves.

 

[sha_lyn]

So what kinds of jobs are the homeless with mental illness and histories of drug abuse, time spent in prison going to get? How is someone with a mental illness supposed to get a job? Who's willing to hire these people?

There goes your whole arguement about the miltary. These people can't join the military

 

[Brer_Papa]

I'm just venting a little bit....I'm not going to participate in the homeless versus a draft/volunteer military needs...

I lived thorough the "draft era"....

my generation and generations before me did....

I remember the Selective Service Registration....the draft notice..

I remember going to the physical...

I remember the quest for deferments...the "4-F's"

I remember friends who enlisted in other branches of the military to avoid the draft....

I remember those who filed for Conciensus (sp) Objector status...

I remember the flights to Canada for some..

I remember the unrest, the protests, the division in America...

the prospect of the draft returning is not a pleasant one...

IF...underline IF....the draft returns...

it could be much worse than it was in the late 60's -early 70's...

especially, if our Nations young Ladies become draftable...

no amount of "spin"...such as: "

If you question the draft then you don't support the troops"

or "opposition to a draft makes you Un-American"

should be allowed or acceptable....

in the event a draft is resurrected...not only would it be a broken campaign promise....it would further divide an already divided Country...

No one is right on this issue today...no one is wrong today....

only will the next 4 years determie who had the correct instinct on the matter of a return of the draft

 

[poohandwendy]

So what kinds of jobs are the homeless with mental illness and histories of drug abuse, time spent in prison going to get? How is someone with a mental illness supposed to get a job? Who's willing to hire these people?

I can answer the mentally ill end of your question (my sister is mentally ill-schizo-affective disorder). They actually do not need to get a job, if they are unable. They qualify for social security disability. My sister has worked, but usually cannot handle it for very long, unfortunately. We are hopefully that eventually she will be able to work full-time, I don't know that it will happen but she works towards that goal. She will qualify for SSI until she has proven to be able to be 'on her own'. It is likely that she will never get there.

It is not a bed of roses, but NO metally ill person is on the streets because there is no help for them, I guarantee that. They are on the streets because their illness prevents them from seeking help and we cannot force them into treatment for a long enough period of time to help them unless they are a harm to themselves or others. Anyone out there willing to propose that we force treatment on people who are unwilling and not a harm to others?

Btw, many companies are willing to hire mentally ill people (McDonalds is one). She has never had trouble getting a job, her case managers have always been able to help her with that end. It's keeping her focused enough to stick with it that is the problem.

Have to add, as a family member of a person disabled by mental illness, I do not push for more social programs...I push for more research into the illnesses. Until we learn more about the brain, there will be no real improvements.

 

[katerkat]

Originally posted by crazyforgoofy
Yeah, I've heard that thousands and thousands of young men and women are standing in line just waiting for "increases in the size of the military" so they can sign up. It's getting deep in here!

Actually, the Air Force is currently over-staffed. Congress does not allow the AF to have as many members as it does right now. Many people are being offered deals to switch to the Army or just not being allowed to re-enlist. (Depends on your MOS, of course.) We get the Air Force Times and most of the articles are about what jobs are being forced out. If Congress approved an increase in active duty AF members, this would not have to happen.

 

[BibbidiBobbidiBOO]

The army is having more trouble getting new soldiers as they have the longest deployments right now: 12-18 months for Army soldiers, 7 months for Marines, and AF just went from 3 to 4 months ( I am thinking Navy is 6mo. if in country). And yes, they are training troops from other branches to switch over to the army. I read about it in Army Times. Rumsfield would like the army to lower deployments to 6-9 months, but Army says it is not feasible.

 

[JPN4265]

Originally posted by shortbun
My new favorite bumper sticker,"Four More Wars!"

Distasteful but poignantly possible. If Bush means what
he says about no draft, he should end selective service
registration now.

Shortbun, I have been reading your comments for a number of weeks, and have come to the realization that you don't have a clue.