Question about day-care out of someone's home...

[stinkerbelle]

a little back ground:
My house is set very far back from the road...so basically my 'back/side yard" abuts our neighbors (who's house is kidna in front of ours) back yard.

My question:
Our neighbor just opened up a day care out of her home. (I just saw the sign go up yesterday, and a bunch of cars at "pick up time" around 6:30 last night).

She has alot of toys in her back yard - your typical play houses and yard games.

But she doesn't have a fence around her yard. Nor do we.

We have a dog...our dog is NEVER outside unsupervised. She is out there either with me or DH...but not on a leash. (She will stick close by to us.) However, she's been known to "run off" around the yard and into the woods behind us.

do you see where I'm going? In the off chance that we are home at some point during the day, outside with our dog, and she bolts to their yard (she loves people - seeing kids would make her exicted and want to play - she's not a vicous/mean dog at all, just a *very hyper* Brittany Spanial.)

Now - we are not required, by law, to have a fence because we own a dog...but is a day-care required, by law, to have a fence around their back yard? Especially if children will be playing out there?

I don't mean to say that I won't take great care to restrain my dog in our yard when children are outside - because I will most definetly - but my question is mainly about them having a fence. For the safety of the children she is watching.

sorry this got so long...thank for any advice you could send my way.

 

[edcrbnsoul]

I dont know about the laws in your town but I would think to have licensce for a day care someone would have to come out and do an inspection and I would think that a fence would be among the top priorites?

 

[Hillbeans]

Personally, if I were to be running a daycare or putting my child in a home daycare, I think a fenced-in yard is a requirement - not only for dogs, but for cars, etc. I know for myself, if a home daycare didn't have a fenced in yard, i'd not use them - regardless of how far back the yard is from the street as well.

I'd not feel comfortable with a dog around kids that aren't mine, regardless of how friendly the dog is (i've always been afraid of dogs after being bit when I was 3).

JMHO.

 

[Traveliz]

A day care isn't necessarily required to have a fenced area...there are so many different rules etc.

Depending on the number of children she cares for (or their relationship to her) she may not even need to be licensed.

If you are truly concerned about it either talk to her about it or call your state's DCFS office...they are generally in charge of the state requirements, individual cities, towns, townships may also have additional requirements.

You will get a gazillion different responses to this but bottom line is each state has their own guidelines (this is not a universal thing) and to find out what goes in your area you need to talk to someone who is in charge in your area.

Liz

 

[Kimberle]

I think that depends upon the town in which you live. Maybe you could call the town hall and ask.

Personally, as a parent with a child in daycare, I wouldn't feel to comfortable about my child playing outside in an area that wasn't fenced in. Not because of your dog, but because anything could happen. My child could wonder off, other animals (deer, stray animals, etc) could come near the children.

If you're on good terms with your neighbor, maybe you could casually ask her? "Hi Carol, just wanted to congratulate you on your new business. These kids are lucky to have you as a caregiver....... " Casually bring up your dog...."as you know, we don't let our dog out unsupervised, however, there is always a chance he could get out by mistake......" "just wondering if you're going to put up a fence".......

I don't think she would take offense. Maybe she has intentions of putting up a fence, but just hasn't gotten to it yet or wanted to make sure she'd have enough clients.

Good luck!

 

[Meriweather]

My state requires a fence to become licensed.
But many people have day cares that are not licensed

 

[stinkerbelle]

Originally posted by Hillbeans
I'd not feel comfortable with a dog around kids that aren't mine, regardless of how friendly the dog is (i've always been afraid of dogs after being bit when I was 3).

JMHO.

Nope - I totally agree...i would not feel comfortable with MY dog around children that aren't mine. The liability is too great...I feel bad when my dog licks the faces of my friend's kids...I just get worried.

How do you think I should approach this? Our house was newly built on this lot...and we moved in about 7 months after the neighbor moved into THIER house...they knew a house was going up "behind" them...so hopefully they aren't sore about that...

should we speak to the neighbors about this? I just want to cover my own butt on this...you know? And, to be honest, DH and I really don't have the money to put up our own fence right now. If we did - we would.

 

[Hillbeans]

Stinkerbelle,

Unfortunately, even though she's the one watching the kids, if your dog runs off after a squirrel and then goes and bites one of the kids, you're going to be the one with the problem.

Is it fair? No, canl it happen, yes.

It's her issue, but it can become yours.

Maybe you could just talk with her, honestly, and somehow agree on putting up an inexpensive fence that both of you can pay for. It'll help both of you out, right? She may also already be considering putting one up, so i'd talk with her honestly and go from there.

 

[stinkerbelle]

Hillbeans - that's EXACTLY what I'm thinking...it effects me much more than her just because it's my dog.

I just did a google search...if what I'm looking at is correct - in the state of CT...all day-cares should have licenses (and even if she's just taking care of family kids - she still has a sign out front, meaning she's went 'public') but it clearly states:

h) Outdoor play space

(1) There shall be access to a minimum of seventy-five (75) square feet per child of outdoor space for the number of children using the space at any one time. This could include parks, school yards, parking areas or elevated or roof top play areas. The outdoor area shall be fenced or protected for safety.


oye...need to talk to hubby about this...get his opinion...he;s friendly with the husband (we hardly know these people - they really keep to themselves...plus we've had issues with their family members dumping stuff on OUR property...long story that involves the police...oye)

 

[Pluto2003]

many people don't........I hope your neighbor understands her responsibilties....

 

[The Mystery Machine]

You can try and get the law involved with the fence issue. I must say that little claus really SUCKS! (or protected for safety). Really leaves it open for interpretation, imho.

The bottom line is you are required to keep control of your dog. If it leaves your property and does damage you are setting yourself up for a lawsuit. Possibly for more than one party, maybe even several.

 

[stinkerbelle]

Originally posted by The Mystery Machine
The bottom line is you are required to keep control of your dog. If it leaves your property and does damage you are setting yourself up for a lawsuit. Possibly for more than one party, maybe even several.

I totally understand.

Yep...the dogger will be going out on a leash (as much as she hates it) when day-care is in session...I just don't want to run the risk.

But I still think..as much as *I'm* being proactive about this...I still think the neighbor should too...it's HER business after all.

 

[Jeafl]

The woman who lives next door to us also has an in-home day care. She is licensed by the state of IL to watch TWELVE children by herself. She has a very small backyard since they are on a pie-shaped lot, and it is not fenced in. I can't tell you how many times I would look out my window to see her daycare kids on MY swingset. I was really nervous that one of them would fall and get hurt and I would be the one sued. I had to talk with her calmly about my concerns and ask that they stay out of my yard. She said she was not required to get a fence, therefore she wouldn't be getting one, but that she would TRY to keep them out of my yard.

First of all, I think some parents must be desperate to leave their kids with a woman who was also watching 11 others at the same time. I don't care how good you are, it's not possible to keep an eye on 12 kids at once. They have a rottweiler/chow mix dog who isn't very friendly as well. For awhile there her husband was growing pot in the backyard too. Sorry for getting off track here, I guess the point of the story is, unless they have a fence, it's going to become your problem whether you like it or not. Just do your best to keep your dog on a leash, and hope for the best. Good luck!

 

[antkim]

Just want to ask if there is a leash law in your state? For your own protection, if there is one, don't let the dog off the leash when daycare is in session at all. I know you watch the dog but you just never know. She needs to put up a fence for sure! That's the law and I don't understand how she got her license if it is required!

Kim

 

[stinkerbelle]

Originally posted by antkim
Just want to ask if there is a leash law in your state? For your own protection, if there is one, don't let the dog off the leash when daycare is in session at all. I know you watch the dog but you just never know. She needs to put up a fence for sure! That's the law and I don't understand how she got her license if it is required!

Kim

Yes - leash law...of course that really applies when you off your own property:

from the state website:

The general statutes do not mandate that dogs be on leashes at all times. But (1) a dog's owner or keeper must not allow it to roam on another person's land or on a public highway, including sidewalks...

of course this applies to my situation, and like I said - I'll keep my dog on a leash...

but like you mentioned...I'm stil wondering how/why she doesn't have a fence.

 

[Hillbeans]

Originally posted by stinkerbelle
but like you mentioned...I'm stil wondering how/why she doesn't have a fence.

because she may only be doing this for a few months or a year and she doesn't want to be "licensed". Lots of people do this, and i'm sure a large percentage of home childcare is NOT licensed.

I'm sure she should be, and it sounds like she watches a lot of kids also. Correct me if i'm wrong, but if you're not licensed, then you probably don't have to pay taxes on the money you're making.

 

[C.Ann]

If my child - or grandchild - were going there the yard would have to be fenced or it just wouldn't happen..

However, in our area, if you have a dog you have 2 choices - your yard must be fenced or your dog has to be on a leash or chain at ALL times.. Do you know what the restrictions are in your area?

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by stinkerbelle
Yes - leash law...of course that really applies when you off your own property:

from the state website:

The general statutes do not mandate that dogs be on leashes at all times. But (1) a dog's owner or keeper must not allow it to roam on another person's land or on a public highway, including sidewalks...

of course this applies to my situation, and like I said - I'll keep my dog on a leash...

--------------------------------------------

Town laws and state laws often differ.. You'll need to check on that to be safe..

 

[stinkerbelle]

there are no restrictions on my dog - however once she leaves my property she considered "roaming" and we are then breaking the leash law...so no, we are not require to tie her up or have a fence.

"because she may only be doing this for a few months or a year and she doesn't want to be "licensed". Lots of people do this, and i'm sure a large percentage of home childcare is NOT licensed."

well...that makes me want to become a stay at home mom when I have a child...or shell out big bucks for the "chain" daycares.

 

[kadaten]

Originally posted by stinkerbelle
Hillbeans - that's EXACTLY what I'm thinking...it effects me much more than her just because it's my dog.

I just did a google search...if what I'm looking at is correct - in the state of CT...all day-cares should have licenses (and even if she's just taking care of family kids - she still has a sign out front, meaning she's went 'public') but it clearly states:

h) Outdoor play space

(1) There shall be access to a minimum of seventy-five (75) square feet per child of outdoor space for the number of children using the space at any one time. This could include parks, school yards, parking areas or elevated or roof top play areas. The outdoor area shall be fenced or protected for safety.


oye...need to talk to hubby about this...get his opinion...he;s friendly with the husband (we hardly know these people - they really keep to themselves...plus we've had issues with their family members dumping stuff on OUR property...long story that involves the police...oye)

Was going to post that exact quote from the CT day care licensure site....also this one....

f) Operating a Family Day Care Home Without a License; Civil Penalty

Any person or officer of an association, organization or corporation who shall establish, conduct, maintain or operate a family day care home without a current and valid license or in violation of these regulations is subject to a civil penalty of not more than one hundred dollars($100) a day for each day that such facility is operated without a license or in violation of these regulations pursuant to Sections 19a-79(b) and 19a-87c of the Connecticut General Statutes.

(g) Operating a Family Day Care Home Without a License; Court Action by Attorney General

When evidence indicates that the provider is operating a family day care home without a valid license or in violation of the adopted regulations, the Commissioner may request the Attorney General to bring an action in the Superior Court for the judicial district in which the facility is located, to enjoin the provider from maintaining the family day care home without a license or in violation of the regulations pursuant to Section 19a-87d of the Connecticut General Statutes.

So it looks like they DO have to have a license and THEY are required to provide the barriers from hazards. Hope you can find a nice way to bring it up and stay on good terms with them. Or if you don't think it will be amicable, there's always the anonymous report to appropriate authorities.... I just wouldn't want to always have to worry about it. And as a parent, would never leave my kids in a daycare without a fence around the play area!!