Purely Something For Discussion...

[kristenrice]

Just for discussion...

I see a lot of talk about renting (both good and bad) and I know that DVC cannot legally ban it. Renting is direct competition for Disney's CRO booking but it also has also increased competition for rooms, particularly studios, among members. The latter has resulted in grumblings about curtailing rentals and that's what got me thinking...how can Disney discourage renting and compete without banning it? I would not want to see them place restrictions or fees on the membership, so what can they do?

One thing that came to mind was offering a benefit to those who book through CRO. They could ADD something to what they have to offer. Then it hit me...what is the biggest promo that lures people to book full, rack-rate rooms year after year? Free dining! In order to sweeten the deal against the low cost of rentals, could they offer free dining to those who book a rack-rate villa? Would that do anything to sway people away from renting and lure them into booking direct with Disney?

I suggest this under the assumption that free dining will no longer be offered for any of the other resort categories. If it were ONLY available for cash bookings for DVC villas, do you think that this would have any impact on the rental market? Would this be a benefit that would cause people to think twice about the amount of money they can save by renting? Along the same lines, could Disney offer benefits/offers to those who book only the villas? Like, if you book a room at OKW, you can save 10% on your tickets...something like that.

Don't get me wrong, I have NO ISSUES with renting, renters, rental brokers or anything related to renting. I was a renter before I was an owner and I have rented my points to others as well. I am merely wondering if there is any way that Disney is going to be "competing" with the rental market.

 

[LittleFishy101]

I don’t think disney will do anything about it. The free dining might be tempting to some, but our family never sees it as worth it. We have considered it multiple times and it just doesn’t make sense for us. I’m not sure disney is really very concerned about renting, but of course I could be wrong.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I doubt there are enough rack rate studio villas at the highest demand resorts to really dent demand, even for those who get swoony about FD.

Disney has no concern with renting. If the dues get paid and people spend money on tickets and food, the points are doing their job, regardless of who is staying in the room the points booked. Some owners get cranky about rentals, but they are deluding themselves that having people (including themselves) unable to use points would free up the availability they're not seeing. A lot of people would trade to RCI, which puts villas into RCI, not into additional points availability. It would take a lot of breakage to really shift availability.

 

[hakepb]

Any discount Disney offers on cash villas comes out of the pockets of DVC owners that trade their points for cruises or Disney Collection, because the discount would mean a lower exchange rate in those points for cash-equivalent transactions.

..unless you are arguing that the CRO villas have a low occupancy % and promos would increase CRO villa occupancy to a high %.

 

[DebbieB]

Just for discussion...

I see a lot of talk about renting (both good and bad) and I know that DVC cannot legally ban it. Renting is direct competition for Disney's CRO booking but it also has also increased competition for rooms, particularly studios, among members. The latter has resulted in grumblings about curtailing rentals and that's what got me thinking...how can Disney discourage renting and compete without banning it? I would not want to see them place restrictions or fees on the membership, so what can they do?

One thing that came to mind was offering a benefit to those who book through CRO. They could ADD something to what they have to offer. Then it hit me...what is the biggest promo that lures people to book full, rack-rate rooms year after year? Free dining! In order to sweeten the deal against the low cost of rentals, could they offer free dining to those who book a rack-rate villa? Would that do anything to sway people away from renting and lure them into booking direct with Disney?

I suggest this under the assumption that free dining will no longer be offered for any of the other resort categories. If it were ONLY available for cash bookings for DVC villas, do you think that this would have any impact on the rental market? Would this be a benefit that would cause people to think twice about the amount of money they can save by renting? Along the same lines, could Disney offer benefits/offers to those who book only the villas? Like, if you book a room at OKW, you can save 10% on your tickets...something like that.

Don't get me wrong, I have NO ISSUES with renting, renters, rental brokers or anything related to renting. I was a renter before I was an owner and I have rented my points to others as well. I am merely wondering if there is any way that Disney is going to be "competing" with the rental market.

Free dining is the big promo of the year, they will not take it away except for DVC rooms. Most people going for it want value or moderate. They aren’t going to pay rack rate for a DVC.

I don’t think Disney is concerned about the rental market, it doesn’t make a big dent overall.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I thought that DVC villas also end up in the free dining promo already but then I haven't really looked at it for years. I know they usually end up in the discount promos.

But sure, if Disney is concerned they could offer more incentives to rent out the rooms they have under their availability.

 

[bumbershoot]

I’m not sure disney is really very concerned about renting, but of course I could be wrong.

I agree they aren't worried about it.

Some owners get cranky about rentals, but they are deluding themselves that having people (including themselves) unable to use points would free up the availability they're not seeing.

100% agree.

If renting weren't possible people would just use their points for their own trips. Or they would sell those points, and the people who bought them would use them for their own trips.

 

[Chuck S]

I don't know if they could legally do this or not...but one way to discourage some renting would be that names can not be changed on a reservation made during the home resort priority (11 month) window. That would stop people from using their home resort privilege for booking rooms at popular time and trying to rent them later.

We have tried to discourage speculative bookings here on the DIS by not allowing pre-existing reservations to be offered more than 30 days before check-in date, or if you really want to do so, paying a Rent/Trade Board premium membership of $199.95.

 

[ziravan]

If I were DVC, I’d create a point broker system that’d draw points now being rented under their control.

Rules.

1. Minimum 75 direct points to participate.

2. Avail 9 months to 7 months out.

3. 10% premium to trade. If you own BWV and want to trade into a 100 point Poly reservation, it’ll cost you 110 points.

4. Disney is basically point skimming and most of those points over time will go from high demand to large capacity resorts: from Poly and VGF to OKW and SSR but at 7 months, Disney gets those excess point as CRO.

5. Works like a ticket exchange program for season tickets. I search at 9 months, if I find 100 Poly points avail, I trade my 110 BWV points which become avail for the next searcher.

Since Disney is collecting a 10% “point fee” on each transaction, at the 7 month window, 10% of all points traded will belong to DVC. If 2,000,000 points trade a year, that’s 200,000 points that shift to pure profit CRO. Points that used to go to brokers.

DVC would be providing a new service to direct owners, creating a new revenue stream, and breaking to back of brokers by poaching their supply of points.

 

[Chuck S]

If I were DVC, I’d create a point broker system that’d draw points now being rented under their control.

Rules.

1. Minimum 75 direct points to participate.

2. Avail 9 months to 7 months out.

3. 10% premium to trade. If you own BWV and want to trade into a 100 point Poly reservation, it’ll cost you 110 points.

4. Disney is basically point skimming and most of those points over time will go from high demand to large capacity resorts: from Poly and VGF to OKW and SSR but at 7 months, Disney gets those excess point as CRO.

5. Works like a ticket exchange program for season tickets. I search at 9 months, if I find 100 Poly points avail, I trade my 110 BWV points which become avail for the next searcher.

Since Disney is collecting a 10% “point fee” on each transaction, at the 7 month window, 10% of all points traded will belong to DVC. If 2,000,000 points trade a year, that’s 200,000 points that shift to pure profit CRO. Points that used to go to brokers.

DVC would be providing a new service to direct owners, creating a new revenue stream, and breaking to back of brokers by poaching their supply of points.

If you allow them to be used at 9 months out at non home resorts, you are messing up the home resort priority for people that DO own there...WHat Disney is doing now. giving them to CRO and using them for the 25 point one time rental to DVCers is likely making them more $ and is less complicated to manage.

 

[Dean]

I don't know if they could legally do this or not...but one way to discourage some renting would be that names can not be changed on a reservation made during the home resort priority (11 month) window. That would stop people from using their home resort privilege for booking rooms at popular time and trying to rent them later.

We have tried to discourage speculative bookings here on the DIS by not allowing pre-existing reservations to be offered more than 30 days before check-in date, or if you really want to do so, paying a Rent/Trade Board premium membership of $199.95.

They could legally do so but it'd have to be for all reservations, not just rentals, likely making each a cancelation and rebooking. They could make all changes a cancelation/rebooking or just the ones that are done day one 11 months out. They could effectively stop walking at the same time & in the same way. IMO the current DIS setup doesn't discourage rentals, just profits from it. While I disagreed with the old approach which didn't allow rentals of confirmed weeks, believing it to be activist, at least it was consistent.

I would agree that DVD likely doesn't care much, at least enough to put much effort into preventing it. They could chose to profit from it as well and offer some type of broker service if they wanted but in the big scheme of things, it probably isn't enough for them to fool with. They could more easily prevent brokering if this were something truly on their radar.

If you allow them to be used at 9 months out at non home resorts, you are messing up the home resort priority for people that DO own there...WHat Disney is doing now. giving them to CRO and using them for the 25 point one time rental to DVCers is likely making them more $ and is less complicated to manage.

A VIP system would potentially bypass this snag and makes sense for DVD/DVC to have created, there's likely too much water under the bridge to do so at this point in time.

 

[iheartglaciers]

I don’t think Disney is that worried about renting. There are already benefits to booking through Disney even without extra promotions like free dining. It gives you security (since there’s always the risk of an owner cancelling the reservation), exactly what you want (no need to line up an owner to book at 11 months for certain reservations), and flexibility (you can cancel without penalty fairly close to the trip date).

Yes you can save a lot of money renting, but not everyone wants to take the risk or plan as far out in advance as is usually necessary with DVC points.

 

[The Jackal]

Free dining is the big promo of the year, they will not take it away except for DVC rooms. Most people going for it want value or moderate. They aren’t going to pay rack rate for a DVC.

I don’t think Disney is concerned about the rental market, it doesn’t make a big dent overall.

Free dining almost always the last few years is more expensive then getting the room at the discount rate and getting the dining plan. Lots of people see Free and jump on it. The price difference is not much. It’s not free and they are doing fewer and fewer rooms every year with free dining.

 

[lovin'fl]

On one of my last BWV stays, during F&W 2017, there were several conference folks staying at BWV as they got off the elevator with me and I saw them enter their 1BR villas (it was like 3 folks all on same floor as me...if 3 then probably more). So I don't think DVD has any issues renting out DVC rooms via CRO.

 

[DebbieB]

Free dining almost always the last few years is more expensive then getting the room at the discount rate and getting the dining plan. Lots of people see Free and jump on it. The price difference is not much. It’s not free and they are doing fewer and fewer rooms every year with free dining.

Depends on party size. If you have a family of 4 and stay at a value or moderate, it’s going to be a better deal than a room discount. Plus as you said, there’s the psychological factor that it’s a great deal. With a DVC room with a rack rate of $500+, I doubt a lot of people will go for it.

 

[zavandor]

How many people have rented a few time before understanding it made sense to buy their own contract? Or as a trial run before ownership?
My guess is that renting makes the mouse money anyway so they don't have much incentive to remove it.

 

[iheartglaciers]

How many people have rented a few time before understanding it made sense to buy their own contract? Or as a trial run before ownership?
My guess is that renting makes the mouse money anyway so they don't have much incentive to remove it.

Agree with this!! I rented a couple times and then ended up getting my own contract

 

[Ben E N]

Agree with this!! I rented a couple times and then ended up getting my own contract

Same here. I initially took a sales call from DVC a few years ago in order to get a gift card and ended up laughing them off. Then I rented DVC points just to change up where we stayed, with the full intention of only staying there once. 2 weeks after that trip, our resale contract was accepted, and a month later, Disney made money selling me a direct add-on.