Purchasing resale vs through DVC

[walt2187]

I have been a DVC owner since 1997 and just reviewed the analysis of the change in the cost of a point from Nov 2020 to Nov 2021. So if I was reviewing the restrictions of purchasing through the resale market, would it be in one’s best interest to purchase either Hilton Head or Vero Beach if you can live with a seven vs 12 month window to exchange? One issue I did mot review would be the difference in maintenance dues?
Any thoughts?

 

[Brett Wyman]

Yeah you really need to take multiple factors into consideration. For us we bought HHI as an add-on knowing we travel in usually slower times and have rarely had issues at the 7 month window(we also live 4 hours for HHI just in case). When we do, with a little flexibility we can always get what we want from the wait list. That said though, at the time we got the points for $57 dollars each. Which would be tough now I think. So that helped us accept the higher yearly dues as well as the 2042 end date. Our "main" contract is 2057 at AKV, but was also resale. So it was really multiple factors that lined up just right for us to make HHI "okay". And we are staying 9 nights split between BCV and VGF in February with those points so all is working well for us!

 

[_auroraborealis_]

The difference in dues is nasty and it is a 2042 resort.

If you are buying for WDW you are better off with SSR or BLT.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Yeah, dues are a much bigger cost over the life of a contract than upfront price. Also, you don’t know what the future will hold with 7 month availability. (As far as how hard it will be to get what you want). You shouldn’t buy a resort you would never want to stay at in my opinion.

 

[Sandisw]

I would not buy an offsite resort for stays at WDW. If 7 months come and you can’t get your trip scheduled, you are out of luck.

You could be completely shut out or be forced into staying at different resorts every few nights, etc.

Personally, would pay more for the least expensive WDW resort so you at least know you have a room and then the 7 month booking becomes a chance to try elsewhere.

 

[walt2187]

Brett,
We love HHI in general. We stayed at the DVC resort there quite a few years ago and ended up buying two weeks at MVCI resorts. We visit there at least three times a year (5 hours away and 1 1/2 hours from WDW) and WDW 1 or 2 times/ month

 

[bbeagle]

Looking at the prices of Vero Beach - You can get 150 points resale for about $10,000.
For 20 years maintenance at $1,500 a year - that's $30,000.
So the total cost over 20 years is $40,000

If you buy Polynesian direct from Disney, 150 points is currently $37,000.
For 20 years maintenance at $1,100 a year - that's $22,000.
So the total cost over 20 years is $59,000.

Assuming maintenance percentage increases are similar for both resorts, the Poly is about $20,000 more expensive. (And with 'direct' perks)

In both cases you always booked Poly at 7 months out (your times were flexible so you'll eventually stay there).

Isn't Vero Beach a good resort to purchase if this was your goal for the next 20 years? Would another property be a better deal?

Isn't $10,000 a lot easier to get started into DVC than a 150 point Poly resale at $30,000 or a direct at $37,000?

 

[Sandisw]

Looking at the prices of Vero Beach - You can get 150 points resale for about $10,000.
For 20 years maintenance at $1,500 a year - that's $30,000.
So the total cost over 20 years is $40,000

If you buy Polynesian direct from Disney, 150 points is currently $37,000.
For 20 years maintenance at $1,100 a year - that's $22,000.
So the total cost over 20 years is $59,000.

Assuming maintenance percentage increases are similar for both resorts, the Poly is about $20,000 more expensive. (And with 'direct' perks)

In both cases if you never stayed at the Poly or Vero Beach, but always booked a different resort at 7 months out, isn't Vero Beach a good resort to purchase? Would another property be a better deal?

The problem is that when your goal is WDW and you must wait until 7 months, you can be shut out. But, in 20 years, that VB contract is done. The Poly contract can be sold and you should make up most, if not all of that back!!

I would not buy an offsite resort for WDW stays...its too risky...

 

[MinBz]

Are you against Poly at resale prices?

 

[bbeagle]

The problem is that when your goal is WDW and you must wait until 7 months, you can be shut out. But, in 20 years, that VB contract is done. The Poly contract can be sold and you should make up most, if not all of that back!!

I would not buy an offsite resort for WDW stays...its too risky...

I guess I'm looking at it from the point of view that $10,000 is an easy purchase, I can get in with cash, and I would break-even over purchasing Poly rooms at racks rate in just 2-3 years.

I guess you're right that in 20 years, I could get my money back from a Poly purchase.

 

[Sandisw]

I guess I'm looking at it from the point of view that $10,000 is an easy purchase, I can get in with cash, and I would break-even over purchasing Poly rooms at racks rate in just 2-3 years.

I guess you're right that in 20 years, I could get my money back from a Poly purchase.

And, it may be worth it for you in the short term if you are fine with knowing that you could run into trouble with 7 month bookings. There are times where you won't be able to get a room for all the days you want, you may have to get a room size that isn't the one you would like...and, certain times of the year...mid September to mid January...is tough for 7 month bookings.

IMO, that is the more important piece that you save upfront and end up with a product that doesn't work for you and then you spent $$$ to become frustrated.

Also...and this is purse speculation on my part...I can see them removing VB and HH from the BVTC a few years before it expires and owners will lose trading because they don't plan on making them DVC any longer.

 

[bbeagle]

Also...and this is purse speculation on my part...I can see them removing VB and HH from the BVTC a few years before it expires and owners will lose trading because they don't plan on making them DVC any longer.

That is actually interesting. Is Disney allowed to pull any resort at any time?

Could Disney for example in 2023 pull VGF, Poly and BT into a DVC-Monorail group where they can only trade amongst themselves, then another DVC-Epcot for only the Epcot resorts? Or is there something in the contracts that says they can't?

Couldn't they even take VB and HH out in 2023? Why would they wait?

It's sort of what they're doing with the Riviera in a different way.

 

[bbeagle]

Are you against Poly at resale prices?

Poly resale is about $25-30K for 150 points. It's just a lot higher.

 

[Sandisw]

That is actually interesting. Is Disney allowed to pull any resort at any time?

Could Disney for example in 2023 pull VGF, Poly and BT into a DVC-Monorail group where they can only trade amongst themselves, then another DVC-Epcot for only the Epcot resorts? Or is there something in the contracts that says they can't?

Couldn't they even take VB and HH out in 2023? Why would they wait?

It's sort of what they're doing with the Riviera in a different way.

Trading happens when resorts stay as part of BVTC (Buena VIsta Trading Compnay). As long as a resort is associated with that, other owners can trade to it.

At any time, they can remove the resort. Now, its not as simple as them saying lets remove it...there are rules and guidelines...but its possible. The rules are in the POS that explain it.

That is why it is important to understand that you are really only guaranteed use at your home resort. While highly unlikely that they would remove things, legally, they can.

For VB and HH, if the plan will be to let them expire and not continue, removing them, selling them off early, could make sense. Again, its my own speculation of what will happen.

Its why some of us believe that in 2042, BWV, BRV, BCV will become new resorts and resale buyers will no longer be able to trade into those (similar to RIV)...but that VB and HH won't even be an option any longer.

In order to do what you mention with VGF, BLT, etc., what I think it would require for BVTC to be dissolved, all resorts on their own, and then a new trading company created. IMO, that would be way more work than is needed and something they don't want.

The resale restrictions were put in place to encourage new sales direct. Trying to piecemeal things doesn't really make sense. Long term, it makes sense to just let current resorts expire, and then redevelop over time as part of the new, and slowly remove resale points from trading...

 

[bbeagle]

It's very interesting. Thank you for the details.

I also wonder if something like theming can change. Say, for example, The Riviera flops, and not many people want to buy into that. It's costly, but can they change the theming to something completely different, like to mimic the All-star sports/movies/music resorts with big giant gaudy Woody and Buzz characters? Would the people who booked The Riviera originally wanting a calm classy resort have any say?

 

[_auroraborealis_]

It's very interesting. Thank you for the details.

I also wonder if something like theming can change. Say, for example, The Riviera flops, and not many people want to buy into that. It's costly, but can they change the theming to something completely different, like to mimic the All-star sports/movies/music resorts with big giant gaudy Woody and Buzz characters? Would the people who booked The Riviera originally wanting a calm classy resort have any say?

Theming can change, although unlikely. When a resort goes to full refurb we have seen decor shift significantly. OKW and SSR are key examples, although we can also reference the dumbing down at BWV and BCV.

 

[Ruttangel]

Looking at the prices of Vero Beach - You can get 150 points resale for about $10,000.
For 20 years maintenance at $1,500 a year - that's $30,000.
So the total cost over 20 years is $40,000

If you buy Polynesian direct from Disney, 150 points is currently $37,000.
For 20 years maintenance at $1,100 a year - that's $22,000.
So the total cost over 20 years is $59,000.

Assuming maintenance percentage increases are similar for both resorts, the Poly is about $20,000 more expensive. (And with 'direct' perks)

In both cases you always booked Poly at 7 months out (your times were flexible so you'll eventually stay there).

Isn't Vero Beach a good resort to purchase if this was your goal for the next 20 years? Would another property be a better deal?

Isn't $10,000 a lot easier to get started into DVC than a 150 point Poly resale at $30,000 or a direct at $37,000?

The Poly will still be worth $20,000 at the end of your 20 year period.

 

[BamaGuy44]

And, it may be worth it for you in the short term if you are fine with knowing that you could run into trouble with 7 month bookings. There are times where you won't be able to get a room for all the days you want, you may have to get a room size that isn't the one you would like...and, certain times of the year...mid September to mid January...is tough for 7 month bookings.

IMO, that is the more important piece that you save upfront and end up with a product that doesn't work for you and then you spent $$$ to become frustrated.

Also...and this is purse speculation on my part...I can see them removing VB and HH from the BVTC a few years before it expires and owners will lose trading because they don't plan on making them DVC any longer.

Outside of a few weeks a year, (Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc) Is it really a thing where you wouldn't be able to get a room in all of WDW right at 7 months? Like literally not at all? I honestly don't know since I have only been following DVC for a few months. Would there really be times at exactly 7 months I couldn't get any studio for 5 or 6 nights in a row in all of WDW?

 

[Sandisw]

Outside of a few weeks a year, (Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc) Is it really a thing where you wouldn't be able to get a room in all of WDW right at 7 months? Like literally not at all? I honestly don't know since I have only been following DVC for a few months. Would there really be times at exactly 7 months I couldn't get any studio for 5 or 6 nights in a row in all of WDW?

With DVC it is more than a few weeks. Mid September to mid January is a very busy time and most owners book right at 11 months. Traveling then could provide tricky at 7 months.

Something will almost always be available but it may not be the room size you want, the exact dates or number of nights yoy want, or all at the same resort..

Most of the year, SSR and OKW in 1 bedrooms are pretty good bets. But, finding a full week may not be easy. Studios are becoming much harder, especially at near park resorts.

So, it really all depends on when yoy want to travel and how much flexibiity you have, I was a teacher and so we could travel anytime July or Auguat so our 7 month window was pretty wide,

Its a risk you have to be prepared for, if you don’t own on property.

 

[Sandisw]

It's very interesting. Thank you for the details.

I also wonder if something like theming can change. Say, for example, The Riviera flops, and not many people want to buy into that. It's costly, but can they change the theming to something completely different, like to mimic the All-star sports/movies/music resorts with big giant gaudy Woody and Buzz characters? Would the people who booked The Riviera originally wanting a calm classy resort have any say?

Once a resort is sold out, all improvements are paid for by owners via capital reserves. So, while owners don’t choose the materials and design during the refurbs,

It just wouldn’t make a lot of sense to make wild changes as at that Point.