Puppy Love - Westies to be specific.

Octoberbeauty said:
She is working on her site. In fact, she was doing a lot of work on it this morning while I was trying to look at it. So, I think she's new to the "website" thing. Also, she is not listed on any of the 'puppy for sale' sites.

How can you tell the pedigrees are full of puppymill dogs? I don't know how to read them and be able to tell that.

Okay, here's another site that is much stricter: http://www.freewebs.com/hallmarkpups/pupsinformation.htm I've considered getting on her waiting list. She does show some, and I believe there are some champions in the bloodlines. What are the opinions on this one? She is also located near me and not completely out of my price range. :earboy2:

Well, I can tell because I know some of the puppymill names- most don't limit themselves to one breed. Another giveaway is that there are no champions- a conformation breeder is breeding for show quality so they will almost always breed to champions.
 
We have Scotties.. love them with all my heart... but I secretly admire Westies.... don't tell Bridget or Angus. After purchasing Bridget.. second hand I did some investigation and came to find out she was a puppy mill dog. She is a great dog.. but not anywhere near breed standard. Angus is a Scottsh Terrier Rescue dog. We have had Angus with us for 7 months.. he is a corker.
When I was thinking of getting a Westie.. I wanted to know if they were prone to fits of barking or yapping... from what I was told by many owners, they are known to do so.
After living for 6 months behind owners who let their Westie bark CONSTANTLY while in a kennel in the back yard.... I tend to agree. I just wish they would take care of their dogs... and give them some attention.

I wish you the best in your search. I am glad to see you are listening to the information given to you by these wise dis members. They are giving some of the best information that you could find.
 
lizdotcom99 said:
Here is my $.02...as an owner of a puppy mill westie. DO NOT get the puppy from this lady!! 13 years ago I bought my first puppy ever...the cutest westie ya ever did see. Of course I had NO IDEA about anything and just paid the money and got my dog! BIG mistake! Now, I will tell ya that Barkley is definately the love of my life and spoiled rotten. But I can promise you that I will NEVER buy a dog from anyone who is not a reputable breeder.The first year of Barkley's life we spent well over $5000 to keep him alive. He had MANY bouts will all kinds of stuff and had little to no immune system. He was in and out of the emergancy hospital I don't know how many times. It was very sad.....but he is "fine" today. We still spend LOTS of $$$$$ on him at the vet due to his various health issues. Liz


This is our story as well. We've learned our lesson about trusting breeders. Cody is a much loved family member and we feel we 'rescued' him but he has cost us big bucks. Plus I hate that I put money into that dreadful man's pocket.

I think there are breeders out there who are trustworthy and it's great that you are taking your time and asking questions, etc. I wish we had taken the time. OTH, I'm glad I have my Cody.
 
I have a Westie and unfortunately she is also a puppy mill westie which I will never do again. Next time, animal shelter pup or rescue. She is a cutie, stubborn like all good terriers and has the skin conditions that many westies get. We wouldn't change her for the world but I do not want to encourage puppy mills again. To Purplebell: Your westie does have some behavior issues because westies do not usually nip and bite. I have had 2 westies and neither one would bite. Snowy will gently take your finger behind her teeth and try to lead you to the treats but that is it. Your westie could be spoiled but she needs some behavior modification. Good luck.
 

Thank you, Kasmir and Snowysmom:

I didn't think Nellie's behavior was normal, either. My mom is just like, "she's a mean dog, get over it." :earseek: When Nellie does nip I look her in the eyes and say a stern 'no' and sometimes i tap her snout, but i don't want that to be making her meaner (the tapping). The westie is definitely spoiled. If she bites one of us, my mom will say something like, "dont you know you're not supposed to pet a dog when approaching it from it's side?" Excuse me...what?

It at least sounds like she is not too old to be trained (mom/Nellie--LOL). I will check out Petco for lessons this summer when I move home. It's true that dogs do kinda of test their boundaries b/c when I take time to teach Nellie tricks (up/lie down/sit/stay/up) she loves it. I just worry b/c I'm not the only one around this dog. In fact, I'm around her least of all 6 people... :sad2:
 
Can someone please supply me with an official description of a puppy mill? There seems to be a great deal of subjectiveness (has two many litters each year/operates a website, etc) in labelling breeders as "puppy mill" or "backyard breeders". Surely every dog that comes from unregistered stock does not come from a puppy mill!

I always believed that the derogatory term "puppy mill" was coined to describe dog owners who bred their dogs rampantly and indiscriminately, and/or kept the adults and pups in unsafe/unsanitary/unhealthy living conditions with out proper socialization, exercise and health care. If I am able to buy the breed of my choice, and these conditions are NOT present, and I don't plan to breed or show my pet, why should I care if they came from a " reputable breeder"? And please don't tell me it is to ensure conformity to breed standard and temperment, because in the same breath, someone will say I have to "rescue" a dog from either a rescue organization or an animal shelter and then you have NO idea what you are getting.

OP, the pictures of your "Heidi" look like she has been bred in a loving and caring home. Go and check out the breeder, and set your mind at ease. We commited the Cardinal sin of buying our Westie from a pet store. She is nearly 1 yr old, absolutely no health problems or temperment problems,(except for harrassing the cat ( which we got from a shelter BTW) and she is a joy in our lives. She is great with our children (8 & 10) and fits well in our home.
 
FayeW said:
Can someone please supply me with an official description of a puppy mill? There seems to be a great deal of subjectiveness (has two many litters each year/operates a website, etc) in labelling breeders as "puppy mill" or "backyard breeders". Surely every dog that comes from unregistered stock does not come from a puppy mill!

I always believed that the derogatory term "puppy mill" was coined to describe dog owners who bred their dogs rampantly and indiscriminately, and/or kept the adults and pups in unsafe/unsanitary/unhealthy living conditions with out proper socialization, exercise and health care. If I am able to buy the breed of my choice, and these conditions are NOT present, and I don't plan to breed or show my pet, why should I care if they came from a " reputable breeder"? And please don't tell me it is to ensure conformity to breed standard and temperment, because in the same breath, someone will say I have to "rescue" a dog from either a rescue organization or an animal shelter and then you have NO idea what you are getting.

OP, the pictures of your "Heidi" look like she has been bred in a loving and caring home. Go and check out the breeder, and set your mind at ease. We commited the Cardinal sin of buying our Westie from a pet store. She is nearly 1 yr old, absolutely no health problems or temperment problems,(except for harrassing the cat ( which we got from a shelter BTW) and she is a joy in our lives. She is great with our children (8 & 10) and fits well in our home.

Faye:

Yes, a puppy mill is normally a business venture where more than one type of breed is specifically bred for financial gain, with careless disregard for the living conditions, health, comfort, or good placement of the dogs & puppies.

However, a hobby/backyard breeder can also be guilty of the same thing on a smaller scale.

What I consider to be a good and "reputable" breeder (and I'm not concerned with conformation or show quality, since our dogs are just pets) is an individual who takes great care in making sure that the puppies are placed in GOOD homes; who has a screening process in place. The dog should be at least two years old, if it's her first litter. The dog should also be in excellent living conditions and appear happy and healthy. The breeder should have no reservations whatsoever with your visiting their home and meeting the mother. Likewise, there should be a health guarantee and AKC documentation.

You "should care" that your puppy comes from a good breeder because you don't want to support an industry that exploits and receives financial gain from the suffering of animals. You would be sickened if you knew the true suffering and abuse that's behind puppy mills. And yes, it's possible to buy a healthy dog from a pet store, etc, but often health problems - such as hip dysplasia, etc - crop up later in life. In addition, undesirable personality traits are often present as well. You didn't commit a "Cardinal sin" by purchasing your puppy from a pet store, but please know that research studies and federal investigations have shown that most pet store puppies DO come from puppy mills.

In fact, call your local pet store that sells puppies. Ask them the names and phone numbers of the breeders who they get their puppies from. They won't tell you. If they tell you that they're puchased from a "broker," that's just as bad.

Heidi looks like she may come from a good home with loving owners. I believe that the red flag was raised for three reasons: 1. The owners have no screening process and realistic placement guidelines; 2. They'll ship anywhere; and 3. They have a very paltry one-month guarantee. In addition, ANY caring breeder would stipulate that if a buyer were ever to consider getting rid of a puppy/dog, that the buyer would first contact the breeder for the opportunity to give the dog back.

The Humane Society of the United States is a mainstream organization that supports federal (and state) legislation to create and enforce animal welfare laws. They have an excellent site on puppy mills (Click Here) Warning: this is a difficult site to look at, but it's very informative and fact-based. HSUS isn't radical like PETA.

There's nothing wrong with getting your pet from a good breeder. Just do your homework! Yes, ideally, everyone would get their pets from rescue groups or shelter, BUT that's not ideal for everyone for various different personal reasons.

Octoberbeauty: I didn't mean to hijack your post, but did want to address Faye's questions... Best of luck to you in your search! :)
 
Octoberbeauty,

You are right, that is one precious little pup. And it is very good to be concerned where your dog comes from. One thing that has not been mentioned is checking through the American Kennel Club for a local club chapter in your area. You can contact the president of the club, attend a meeting, etc. to find out more information about Westies and breeders. Most of the people in these clubs are serious about showing their dogs and breeding to strengthen the breed standard. They will typically breed only their best. Typically, the father will not be on premises either in these situations since they seek the best genes to make the best pups.

Realize that not every dog in a litter of pups will be "show quality", but there will also be "pet quality" pups. These are good quality dogs that just aren't up to show standards. It can be a minor appearance defect, such as a crook in the tail. This won't affect the health of the dog. If your area club doesn't have any Westie people, talk to the people who show/breed terriers. They will be competing against the Westies in the group divisions and know who their competition is. Waiting lists are very common for responsible breeders, but waiting lists are also common for breed specific rescue as well.
 


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