Puppy - from 'breeder' or regular home?

[CathrynRose]

I'm sorry I tried to resist, but I am weak.

I don't want to turn this into a pit bull debate, I don't have the energy for it honestly. I just have to say pit bulls are not out to kill your children. I'd like to add a lot more to this post but I'll refrain. Usually it's not worth my time anyway.

Don't be weak. Just post this one link, and *they* can post as many times as they want, and it won't really matter: http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-c...ut-the-issues/pit-bull-bias-in-the-media.aspx

This only adds to the ignorance of the breed that we have manipulated. If pit bulls are not for you that is fine but a lot is media manipulated as they choose what to put in. The are millions of dogs put down a year and not all are pit bulls so if you really want to adopt there is plenty of not pit bull dogs that need help.

See? Link comes in handy again: http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-c...ut-the-issues/pit-bull-bias-in-the-media.aspx

This is what Charley thinks of Media Bias :

Signed ~
Very Proud *Mama* of 2 Rescue/Shelter Pits.

 

[marie1203]

Don't be weak. Just post this one link, and *they* can post as many times as they want, and it won't really matter: http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-c...ut-the-issues/pit-bull-bias-in-the-media.aspx





See? Link comes in handy again: http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-c...ut-the-issues/pit-bull-bias-in-the-media.aspx

This is what Charley thinks of Media Bias :

Signed ~
Very Proud *Mama* of 2 Rescue/Shelter Pits.

That is a great picture! One of the best dogs we've rescue he was a pit. He was such a great dog so smart. Too bad we already have 5 dogs but he now has a good home. It is so true people want to label anything as a pit bull. If you see the picture I posted earlier our hound mix (who is also named Charley) gets call a pit bull all the time not that I care .

 

[CathrynRose]

and the list goes on and on in our area....

.

Your area almost lost a helluva pitcher due to the negative attitude your area has on Pits: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/big-l...ces-mark-buehrle-family-settle-182451604.html He had to find housing over an hour away from the Marlin's stadium.

We would have took him back, though.

He said he wouldn't have even signed, had he not been able to find a place to live. Go Mark!

 

[jodifla]

Of course dogs have issues. So do the owners. The difference is the human is the one that has control to change things. Most problems stem from the human on the other end of the leash. Not every rescue dog has such severe problems they can't be worked with. Many of them have very little issues as well. I have to ask what did you do in response to the dog you had that started biting everyone? If you really believe that behaviors can't be changed no matter what or how minor they are, then I stick with I would not adopt a dog to you. If you really believe that a dog's aggressive behavior is due simply to what breed mix it has, then I would not adopt a dog to you. As with any dog, rescue dogs take work, puppies take work, everything takes work. You can't just take a dog home, plop it into your schedule and expect it to fit right in. You have to plan ahead and prepare what to do at the first sign of a problem and let's face us, not many people do this.

As for thinking if you don't agree with me I won't adopt a dog to you, that's incorrect. I find the fact you believe everything you see in the media as truth the turn off. You toss aside a story from 12 years ago, yet believe other ones. Are you aware that some of the pit bull attacks that are reported are not actually pit bulls? Any response to the facts of the temperament testing? Dogs want to please their owner. If their owner asks the dog to attack another dog to gain attention then they will do it.

I personally have been involved in many cases of where non pit bull dogs have attacked and very few of them made the news. The few that did were only within their local area. If the word pit bull can be worked into the report it's all of a sudden national news. My brother 2 years ago was bitten by a golden retriever while camping. Did you hear about that on the news? Nope. He had to have several stitches and plastic surgery. I can't imagine a person doing dog rescue as you have stated that still believes into the myth of the evil personality of pit bulls. To me that might be the saddest statement I've heard all day.

Not sure why you even had to bring it up? The OP never stated hey where can I find a good pit bull to bring home? They're looking for a pug. Focus.

Why would you trust the rescue person over a trained vet? There's the problem. So many people want easy, cheap, quick answers. Do you know how many times in veterinary practice it's heard well the breeder said....well the rescue person said....how about what the vet said? You know that person that went to school for years to be educated. What does your vet say about pit bulls? I only give suggestions to pet owners and most of those suggestions end with the statement of "please check with your vet first."

Aww hell i said I wouldn't do this. Nevermind. As usual it's simply a waste of my time. When the world has finally been deemed safe from the evil pit bulls I sure hope the next breed of "choice" isn't the one sitting at your feet. You might have a different response then

It's sad that rescue people can't see their OWN bias. I read news from all sources, not just cherry-picked ones that agree with me. I agree that all dogs can be biters and hurt people. My breed of choice, the cocker, was terribly overbred and there's a lot of nippy dogs out there. But I raised mine from a puppy, and a nicer, sweeter cocker I don't think I'll ever find. But if my cocker spaniel ever decided to attack, it's not going to kill me. A pit bull could easily do so.

In metro Detroit, there are many homeless dogs. Many are pit bull mixes who have been abused and used for very non-family friendly activities in the worst parts of the city. I agree this was once a noble breed (wasn't it the Our Gang dog?) but people have used its physical attributes for bad purposes.

Rescue people seem to alternate between heaping guild on people who want to go to breeders, then saying, "hey, you aren't good enough to adopt my dogs anyway."

 

[Jey12]

Don't be weak. Just post this one link, and *they* can post as many times as they want, and it won't really matter: http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-c...ut-the-issues/pit-bull-bias-in-the-media.aspx





See? Link comes in handy again: http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-c...ut-the-issues/pit-bull-bias-in-the-media.aspx

This is what Charley thinks of Media Bias :

Signed ~
Very Proud *Mama* of 2 Rescue/Shelter Pits.

You're my hero! Thank you! Charley is adorable and very smart!

It's sad that rescue people can't see their OWN bias. I read news from all sources, not just cherry-picked ones that agree with me. I agree that all dogs can be biters and hurt people. My breed of choice, the cocker, was terribly overbred and there's a lot of nippy dogs out there. But I raised mine from a puppy, and a nicer, sweeter cocker I don't think I'll ever find. But if my cocker spaniel ever decided to attack, it's not going to kill me. A pit bull could easily do so.

In metro Detroit, there are many homeless dogs. Many are pit bull mixes who have been abused and used for very non-family friendly activities in the worst parts of the city. I agree this was once a noble breed (wasn't it the Our Gang dog?) but people have used its physical attributes for bad purposes.

Rescue people seem to alternate between heaping guild on people who want to go to breeders, then saying, "hey, you aren't good enough to adopt my dogs anyway."

Thanks for the random info. I'm aware of the pet situation in major cities.

Let me tell you something. I'm am not a "rescue" person. I am a licensed veterinary technician with over 15 years of experience in a very busy clinic. I do not believe no kill always means better, I don't believe every dog can be or should be saved, and I do not believe every type of person should own a rescue dog. Not many rescue people have the same thinking I do. I rescue dogs that have been dumped at the vet clinic I work at and when the humane society and other rescues have special cases they know they can't find a good home for via their rules and regulations. When this happens I get a call. If you're trying to figure out exactly what I'm thinking please don't. Please don't assume either. Until you've had more than one person seriously ask you how to tell the difference between a male and female dog and you can keep a straight face when answering you probably have no idea what goes on with a rescue or in a vet clinic.


I honestly find it odd that you say you recognize this was a noble breed. Yes it was the dog on the Rascals and at one time the American Pit Bull was the #1 family dog. During these same time periods dog fighting was also legal in many states and the American Pit Bull was being used for that too. The only thing that has changed as far as the dog is concerned is dog fighting is now illegal. The dogs haven't changed. Being aggressive is not "bred" into them. Before you mention it, I'll throw this out, their jaws don't lock either. So you admit this same dog was once loved and a great family pet, tv star, and a dog people didn't run from if they saw one on the street. So I'm curious, what do you think has changed with the dog? If a dog is picked up in the Detroit metro area and is deemed to be a pit or pit mix they are euthanized and not placed for adoption due to a breed ban on the dogs. They do not adopt out pits to the public from the Detroit shelter. So if that's your area I'm not sure how or why this is all you see available for adoption?

If you are scared that a pit bull might wake up one morning and then decide it's going to kill you because it's out of chew toys or whatever, then I hope you also stay away from other large breed dogs. Pit bulls are not special in that they have large mouths. Your fear I would imagine is also extended to German Shepherds, Golden Retrievers, Labs, Boxers and pretty much any dog over 50 lbs. I'm not really sure how you can look at that picture of Charley and think one morning he's going to kill someone? I thought it was pretty well understood that a pit would never ruin a beautiful white coat with blood.


I'm sorry you had a bad experience with a rescue dog. This doesn't mean all rescue dogs have issues. It also doesn't mean all puppies from a breeder are issue free. Many people would be surprised to learn that they would be a good home and be happy with a rescue dog if given more information. There are a few out there that wouldn't. I don't really understand what your point is? No one's said you shouldn't buy from a breeder. Several posters, including myself, have given advice on how to find a good breeder if that's what you are looking for. Several other posters, myself included have given advice on why and how to adopt a rescue dog. Not all rescue dogs comes with baggage. The number that do is even less if the adopter has solid information and a good vet reference once they adopt. Some dogs are fine in rescue and then simply react to the environment they are placed into.

 

[JaymeC]

It's sad that rescue people can't see their OWN bias. I read news from all sources, not just cherry-picked ones that agree with me. I agree that all dogs can be biters and hurt people. My breed of choice, the cocker, was terribly overbred and there's a lot of nippy dogs out there. But I raised mine from a puppy, and a nicer, sweeter cocker I don't think I'll ever find. But if my cocker spaniel ever decided to attack, it's not going to kill me. A pit bull could easily do so.

In metro Detroit, there are many homeless dogs. Many are pit bull mixes who have been abused and used for very non-family friendly activities in the worst parts of the city. I agree this was once a noble breed (wasn't it the Our Gang dog?) but people have used its physical attributes for bad purposes.

Rescue people seem to alternate between heaping guild on people who want to go to breeders, then saying, "hey, you aren't good enough to adopt my dogs anyway."

I'm not in a rescue, but I do have rescued dogs. I don't understand the point I hear many people make about pit bulls being able to kill... can't all large dogs? I have looked at our golden/lab mix many a time and thought to myself it is a good thing his bite inhibition is as good as it is and he is as gentle as he is because I have seen my child's hand disappear down his mouth before only to be drawn back out unscatched. Any large dog could offer this though, if properly trained and that's really what it all comes down to. Oddly though, no one glares at me if I take my golden to the park with the kids or crosses to stay away from us when we're out walking. I've seen both happen when others had pit bulls, though they were obviously family pets.

As for them once being a noble dog, it seems to me honestly they're just the current picked upon breed. Labs may be next. I distinctly remember back when german shepherds were the breed no one should own, but they seem to have come back to popularity. The truth of the matter is, the problem is not the dog but the owner. There are many people out there with no business owning a dog. And I don't mean fighters, I mean the people with little or no care to training, caring for, etc. of their dogs. I would say they especially shouldn't have big dogs, but I've seen far too many little nippy dogs that really I think it applies to them too. I'm glad your cocker isn't nippy, but to tell you the truth I'm usually far more paranoid about myself and my children being around small dogs than larger dogs, they usually aren't trained nearly as well.

 

[fakereadhed]

All of our dogs have been rescues. I am all for them, but unfortunately I think I won't do it again due to rising costs. I understand it's for a good cause and the high costs of running them, but it's become too expensive to rescue. I can get a puppy from a private owner for a third of the cost of the last puppy we got. I fell for him, and he's the best dog, but it was a huge expense!!! I won't do it again.

As far as the pit bulls, I am torn. They are a lot of dog and the average person doesn't know how to train and handle an easier dog, like a lab. The puppy we got was part chow. I worked really hard on socializing him and watching for aggression. Certain dogs do have certain traits and I think if you go in thinking your furball is sweet and deny their lineage that's where problems start. Any dog can be sweet, even a pit, but if they are a territorial breed with a strong jaw the potential for a tragic disaster is real and it's not for the untrained owner.

 

[marie1203]

It's sad that rescue people can't see their OWN bias. I read news from all sources, not just cherry-picked ones that agree with me. I agree that all dogs can be biters and hurt people. My breed of choice, the cocker, was terribly overbred and there's a lot of nippy dogs out there. But I raised mine from a puppy, and a nicer, sweeter cocker I don't think I'll ever find. But if my cocker spaniel ever decided to attack, it's not going to kill me. A pit bull could easily do so.

In metro Detroit, there are many homeless dogs. Many are pit bull mixes who have been abused and used for very non-family friendly activities in the worst parts of the city. I agree this was once a noble breed (wasn't it the Our Gang dog?) but people have used its physical attributes for bad purposes.

Rescue people seem to alternate between heaping guild on people who want to go to breeders, then saying, "hey, you aren't good enough to adopt my dogs anyway."

Many here including me told the OP how to find a reputable breeder. If I don't place one of my dogs with certain people is because I don't think they are ready for a dog. And I have not been wrong so far, those people went ahead and gotten a dog (of course not from me) and guess who is calling me a few months after to get rid of the puppy. I don't believe everyone should have a dog. Many people are not prepare and it clearly shows by the amount of dogs we have in the shelters. If you did your research from reliable sources then you should know that pit bull is just the target breed of today.

All of our dogs have been rescues. I am all for them, but unfortunately I think I won't do it again due to rising costs. I understand it's for a good cause and the high costs of running them, but it's become too expensive to rescue. I can get a puppy from a private owner for a third of the cost of the last puppy we got. I fell for him, and he's the best dog, but it was a huge expense!!! I won't do it again.

As far as the pit bulls, I am torn. They are a lot of dog and the average person doesn't know how to train and handle an easier dog, like a lab. The puppy we got was part chow. I worked really hard on socializing him and watching for aggression. Certain dogs do have certain traits and I think if you go in thinking your furball is sweet and deny their lineage that's where problems start. Any dog can be sweet, even a pit, but if they are a territorial breed with a strong jaw the potential for a tragic disaster is real and it's not for the untrained owner.

I am really confused about your rescue vs. a puppy. Rescue fees are usually less than $500 and usually most of the vet work is already done. Reputable breeder puppies are well over the $2000 with minimum vet work done.
I agree pit bulls are not for untrained owner and I strongly suggest first time dog owner to stir away from the breed. Again bad owner give bad rep to the breed.

 

[bedogged]

I'm not in a rescue, but I do have rescued dogs. I don't understand the point I hear many people make about pit bulls being able to kill... can't all large dogs? I have looked at our golden/lab mix many a time and thought to myself it is a good thing his bite inhibition is as good as it is and he is as gentle as he is because I have seen my child's hand disappear down his mouth before only to be drawn back out unscatched. Any large dog could offer this though, if properly trained and that's really what it all comes down to. Oddly though, no one glares at me if I take my golden to the park with the kids or crosses to stay away from us when we're out walking. I've seen both happen when others had pit bulls, though they were obviously family pets.

As for them once being a noble dog, it seems to me honestly they're just the current picked upon breed. Labs may be next. I distinctly remember back when german shepherds were the breed no one should own, but they seem to have come back to popularity. The truth of the matter is, the problem is not the dog but the owner. There are many people out there with no business owning a dog. And I don't mean fighters, I mean the people with little or no care to training, caring for, etc. of their dogs. I would say they especially shouldn't have big dogs, but I've seen far too many little nippy dogs that really I think it applies to them too. I'm glad your cocker isn't nippy, but to tell you the truth I'm usually far more paranoid about myself and my children being around small dogs than larger dogs, they usually aren't trained nearly as well.

Any dog can bite given the right set of circumstances. I doubt you have much to worry about with your golden/lab cross. You should look at what a dog was originally bred for. Both goldens and labs were bred to retrieve water fowl so they have what is called a soft mouth. They have been selectively bred not to bite down on the game. While these breeds make wonderful family pets, they often do not make very good watch dogs. They are more likely to show the burglar where the valuables are and then bring them their ball. Of course, all dogs are individuals, I speak in breed generalities.

 

[fakereadhed]

Not sure what was confusing about my post. The local rescues here have priced themselves out of the market. I can get an AKC pup from a reputable breeder for the adoption fee of a mixed breed puppy. Here they only come with first shots and a vet check. I realize they are full right now due to the economy(people unable to keep pets) and need to recoup those costs but I will be forced to go elsewhere for our next pet.

It's even $125 to adopt an older cat at animal control($250 for a kitten) when they are chock full and going to be put to death anyway! This frustrates me and I understand the rationale of the owner having some skin in the game, but if the goal is to find animals homes both the places that euthanize and the rescues need to be a little more reasonable.

That is here. YMMV. Like anything else, costs vary depending where you live.

 

[marie1203]

Not sure what was confusing about my post. The local rescues here have priced themselves out of the market. I can get an AKC pup from a reputable breeder for the adoption fee of a mixed breed puppy. Here they only come with first shots and a vet check. I realize they are full right now due to the economy(people unable to keep pets) and need to recoup those costs but I will be forced to go elsewhere for our next pet.

It's even $125 to adopt an older cat at animal control($250 for a kitten) when they are chock full and going to be put to death anyway! This frustrates me and I understand the rationale of the owner having some skin in the game, but if the goal is to find animals homes both the places that euthanize and the rescues need to be a little more reasonable.

That is here. YMMV. Like anything else, costs vary depending where you live.

I am still confused because I have not seen any rescues or shelter fees in the thousands as I also never seen a puppy from a reputable breeder in the hundreds. So that is were my confusion comes. Also shelters and rescues operate very different I never seen a rescues that will adopt a dog/cat without being fix first that is an extra expense if you buy a dog.

 

[tzolkin]

I agree pit bulls are not for untrained owner and I strongly suggest first time dog owner to stir away from the breed. Again bad owner give bad rep to the breed.

This is exactly what I think.

This is also my issue with some people who are very vocal against those who are wary of owning a pit bull. I know so many pit bull owners who are go on and on about how sweet and snuggly their dogs are, and that they could never hurt anyone and that anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot.

Yes, I recognize they can be wonderful family pets, but comments like that where you completely deny the strength of these animals or the possibility that something could go wrong are unrealistic. We were yelled at by a rescue owner who was trying to guilt us into adopting a pit bull by making us feel like we were stupid and uninformed. Why would you possibly send a large and powerful dog home with a family with small children who didn't feel they could handle it? Just to make a point that pit bulls are nothing but cute and cuddly?

We are actually responsible pet owners who spend time working with our dog. Most of the people I know do not have the time/patience/whatever to train the dogs they have. I live in a poor rural area where most of my neighbors dogs are just left tied outside. They have never been walked on a leash or properly socialized. Most of the dogs in my neighborhood are pit bull or other large breed mixes because that's what's cool or "manly" (yes, my neighbors have explicitly stated that's why they have these dogs) and honestly I do worry about people's safety.

Obviously it's not the dogs' fault, but these are the dogs that are found in our local shelters. They may be able to be wonderful pets, but for most it will take a lot of work to properly train and socialize them. You can't just expect to take them home and trust them to be a sweet dog with your young children.

 

[ceecee]

I would say they especially shouldn't have big dogs, but I've seen far too many little nippy dogs that really I think it applies to them too. I'm glad your cocker isn't nippy, but to tell you the truth I'm usually far more paranoid about myself and my children being around small dogs than larger dogs, they usually aren't trained nearly as well.

My two labs are scared of little dogs, they have both been attacked by them at the dog park. One was even bitten on the leg, since then she has no use for the small dogs and ignores them, but it seems like they go after her even more! My girlfriends Great Dane was scared of strangers and used to hide behind her, it was so funny. I agree with the above poster, a lot of people don't train and socialize the smaller dogs as they should and they do get aggressive.

 

[fakereadhed]

I am still confused because I have not seen any rescues or shelter fees in the thousands as I also never seen a puppy from a reputable breeder in the hundreds. So that is were my confusion comes. Also shelters and rescues operate very different I never seen a rescues that will adopt a dog/cat without being fix first that is an extra expense if you buy a dog.

I have never seen what you're describing in my area, but I don't doubt things may be different outside of my area.

This is like my Grandma coming to visit from another state and thinking her show was on channel 7 because it was at home. I didn't convince her either.

 

[bedogged]

Not sure what was confusing about my post. The local rescues here have priced themselves out of the market. I can get an AKC pup from a reputable breeder for the adoption fee of a mixed breed puppy. Here they only come with first shots and a vet check. I realize they are full right now due to the economy(people unable to keep pets) and need to recoup those costs but I will be forced to go elsewhere for our next pet.

It's even $125 to adopt an older cat at animal control($250 for a kitten) when they are chock full and going to be put to death anyway! This frustrates me and I understand the rationale of the owner having some skin in the game, but if the goal is to find animals homes both the places that euthanize and the rescues need to be a little more reasonable.

That is here. YMMV. Like anything else, costs vary depending where you live.

As a Rescue Coordinator, there is nothing that sets off more warning bells than someone who complains about the amount of the adoption donation. If a person is unwilling to pay the adoption fee, what will happen if the pet becomes ill or is injured? Will they be willing to put out the money for that?

People who rescue must become the advocate for the pet, not the people. The pet has already had at least one failed relationship with a human. It is our job to make sure that does not happen again. We are looking for quality lifelong homes. That is why rescue groups seem so picky about who they will adopt to. They don't want the pet to come back into the rescue system yet again.

 

[fakereadhed]

As a Rescue Coordinator, there is nothing that sets off more warning bells than someone who complains about the amount of the adoption donation. If a person is unwilling to pay the adoption fee, what will happen if the pet becomes ill or is injured? Will they be willing to put out the money for that?

People who rescue must become the advocate for the pet, not the people. The pet has already had at least one failed relationship with a human. It is our job to make sure that does not happen again. We are looking for quality lifelong homes. That is why rescue groups seem so picky about who they will adopt to. They don't want the pet to come back into the rescue system yet again.

You've got me! We go through dogs like crazy, every 12-15 years(however long they live) and my commitment is just not there

 

[bedogged]

You've got me! We go through dogs like crazy, every 12-15 years(however long they live) and my commitment is just not there

In my opinion, a few hundred dollars is a very small amount to pay for 12 to 14 years of pet ownership. And, by the way, cats, if kept inside, can live much longer.

 

[fakereadhed]

In my opinion, a few hundred dollars is a very small amount to pay for 12 to 14 years of pet ownership. And, by the way, cats, if kept inside, can live much longer.

I agree that pets are worth investing in!

As far as the animal control, I really think they are sentencing cats to a sure death in our community when times are tough by charging too much for adoption. When I visited recently looking for a friend's lost dog I was sickened at the amount of older cats they had. It breaks my heart!

As you pointed out, cats live a long time, and they can have lots of expensive medical problems. Charging that much at the outset is not an incentive to adopt a special needs pet.

 

[marie1203]

As a Rescue Coordinator, there is nothing that sets off more warning bells than someone who complains about the amount of the adoption donation. If a person is unwilling to pay the adoption fee, what will happen if the pet becomes ill or is injured? Will they be willing to put out the money for that?

People who rescue must become the advocate for the pet, not the people. The pet has already had at least one failed relationship with a human. It is our job to make sure that does not happen again. We are looking for quality lifelong homes. That is why rescue groups seem so picky about who they will adopt to. They don't want the pet to come back into the rescue system yet again.

Yes!

In my opinion, a few hundred dollars is a very small amount to pay for 12 to 14 years of pet ownership. And, by the way, cats, if kept inside, can live much longer.

I agree. I think the best example is two of our dogs we got them from a shelter they were pulled for free because he had to put them down that afternoon due to finding lice on them. We took them in total cost of their lice treatment was about $400 for both. Even the more costly treatments like heart worm usually run less than $1000. So cost wise usually ends up being the same or much less than puppy that you buy.

I think many people do not consider the real expense of a pet. Vet bills are not cheap and when you decide to take a life in you have to be prepare for everything that comes with it. Being prepare financially for a pet is a very important part that should not be taken lightly.

 

[bedogged]

I agree that pets are worth investing in!

As far as the animal control, I really think they are sentencing cats to a sure death in our community when times are tough by charging too much for adoption. When I visited recently looking for a friend's lost dog I was sickened at the amount of older cats they had. It breaks my heart!

As you pointed out, cats live a long time, and they can have lots of expensive medical problems. Charging that much at the outset is not an incentive to adopt a special needs pet.

What "special needs pet" are you referring to? Statistically, cats require less medical expense during their lifetimes than dogs do.