Puppy - from 'breeder' or regular home?

[LJSquishy]

Petfinder.com is a great place to look for a Pug in a rescue. If you are open to adopting, consider looking there. But, adoption isn't for every family.

If you choose to purchase a dog, please stay away from backyard breeders and puppy mills. Ethical, responsible show breeders spend a lot of time and money to produce dogs that represent the breed well and strive to improve it. Only consider breeders who actively show their dogs to their championship in AKC conformation. Your pup should come from either a champion sire or dam (preferably both) and should be sold with a written health guarantee against any genetic defects/health problems. Ethical breeders will also require a spay/neuter contract where you must have them altered. A show breeder is very knowledgeable about the breed and will be there for you for the next 15 years if you have questions. With that said, not all show breeders are reputable. Do your research. Look for red flags....such as a breeder who breeds mixed breed dogs (puggle, etc) and stay far away!

 

[Skye23]

If you have your heart set on a particular size, breed etc you can also use petfinder.org to help you find one locally or within a set range. They let you search a lot of rescue groups and shelters at once. You determine the distance you're willing to travel and then you can further refine your search by breed, gender, age, size, if the dog needs to get along with children or other dogs, etc...

This lets you look through the inventory of lots of smaller rescue groups who don't run large fixed-location shelters but instead keep their animals in foster homes and so forth.

 

[sk!mom]

Completely agree!! The best, smartest, most awesome dog ever was a rescue dog. RIP Sparky the Wonder Dog!

 

[Pembo]

We've gotten all 3 of our dogs from people who had just wanted to breed their dog. Our Comet is the sweetest and most obedient golden retriever you'll ever meet...his people mom had a female golden and always wanted to breed her. She did it, just once. All the puppies were very laid back and sweet. We saw her when our dog was 5 and her parents had kept one of the pups and he was a lot like Comet.

Our most recent golden also came from a home where the dad owned the female, his son owned a male and they bred them so the grandkids could have the experience of puppies. Again, we got an awesome dog, Teddy.

I researched a lot this last time and we visited 3 or 4 breeders...all except this one were people breeding to make money. For me it was a gut feeling. When I went to see those first pups I knew it wasn't right. I walked into the home of "Teddy" and I knew it was right. And he was a bargain, only $200. Akc registered golden retriever. The people dad wasn't out to make a profit. He provided us a great pet though.

Good luck.

 

[marie1203]

I would never buy a dog there are so many put down. There are rescues of every breed including pugs. AKC means nothing our dog that came from a puppy mill is AKC register as are most of the pet store dogs which come from puppy mills when I call AKC to report the breeder they didn't not care they asked me if I have send the money to register my dog instead .

 

[marie1203]

I'd like to speak to this....

We have a Beagle, she is AKC registered, Pure-Breed, with an AKC full lienage certificate 5 lines up Dam and Sire.

We decided to breed her for the first time, just this week.

We took months and months to find a suitable stud who had the same credentials that we were comfortable with. We put a lot of time and research into checking out info, references and verifiying the stud's lineage.

Our dog is a pet, she is def not a show dog, or a feild champion, yet we are not backyard breeders. We would never ever consider mating our pet with anything other than another AKC lineage proven mate.

We are not a breeding kennel, nor are we backyard breeders, we are a family that has a vested interest in keeping our pets breed pure.

More often than not, if a dog has puppies, it's planned. IMO saying backyard breeder is more like a stray cat having kitties, no telling where or what she mated with.

The AKC doesn't mean anything including health issues it is just a paper any good breeder that does it to conserve the breed does genetic testing does to do it for money.

 

[ceecee]

I wouldn't get an older dog. You don't know how they've been treated or trained. I also wouldn't buy a show dog when I have no intention of showing. I would buy from someone who shows, and did. The pup wasn't perfect, but what parents with excellent temperaments, and health. she knew we had no intention of breeding and he is neutered.

I also never met anyone who made big money off of breeding their dog. In the end it tends to cost more than it is worth. Of course I don't hang out with the Amish or other puppy mill owners.

I disagree! Most rescue dogs have been tested for their temperments and have lived in a family home, the rescue people will tell you honestly how they are trained, etc. I personally know a lady who does this and has placed 100's of dogs successfully (she checks out the people who want the dogs as well). Most rescues will let you foster for a while or take back the dog if it doesn't work out. Our younger lab was abused and she was very fearful of men and shy, 3 years later she is very social and a delightful pet.
My mom's neighbor "breeds" designer dogs (part poodle and part whatever else) she sells each pup for $200-$300 and they go without any vet care. She worms them herself and that's it. She tells how much she makes per litter!

 

[staticgirl50]

I researched for months on breeds and sellers and adoptions. I was almost scammed three times. Be VERY careful, if the price is good it is probably a scam, or a puppy mill .
We knew we wanted a pure bred puppy, so we THOUGHT adopting was out. Nope, the pups are usually in foster homes and not at the centers. We got SUPER lucky and got dachshund from a shelter an hour away. He was not super cheap, but he was discounted a bit from what breeders charge. We knew he was pure bred because the shelter had mom and dad. (Both were up for adoption as well!)
Good luck on your search!! RESEARCH RESEARCH AND RESEARCH lol

 

[princessmom29]

Yes, I am looking at shelters first. However, what I have found is that it is so hard to find a smaller dog at the shelter (vs. labs/etc). I don't really care if they have papers or not, we're just looking for a good family pet - but it has to be smaller in size and we like the pugs.

I see by your sig you have 2 small children. Have you actually been able to find a shelter willing to place a small breed dog with you? DD was 6 when we began looking for our dog, and NO shelter was willing to place a small dog with a family with children under 10. Not a single one. They said it was too big of a risk.

 

[goofyredraider]

Yes, be careful! So many are puppy mill dogs or someone's meal ticket. Look for a pug rescue in your area/state. If you can't find one, find one in another state and see if they know of one in your area.

We adopted an English Bulldog from rescue last year. We are adopting another one tomorrow. I cannot tell you the good feeling you have giving a dog another chance to have a happy life!

Previously (in 2000), we had bought an English Bulldog from a pet store. He was likely a puppy mill puppy, and he died in 2003 due to a birth defect that went undetected by our vet. I will never ever "buy" another dog.

 

[goofyredraider]

I disagree! Most rescue dogs have been tested for their temperments and have lived in a family home, the rescue people will tell you honestly how they are trained, etc. I personally know a lady who does this and has placed 100's of dogs successfully (she checks out the people who want the dogs as well). Most rescues will let you foster for a while or take back the dog if it doesn't work out. Our younger lab was abused and she was very fearful of men and shy, 3 years later she is very social and a delightful pet.

Yes, I totally agree! Most rescue organizations (especially those that specialize in one breed) not only know a lot about the breed, but work very hard to discover the tempermant of the dogs and relay that on, they do good background checks and home visits. They do "meet and greets" to make sure it is a good "fit" for the family.

 

[soonerfan2008]

You've been given some great advice! My order of preference would be:
1. Breed specific rescue (and many times they also have young pups or dogs, too).
2. Professional breeder who shows their dogs, does genetic testing, has a spay/neuter clause for any pet quality pups and will take the dog back FOR LIFE if there are circumstances that mean you cannot keep the dog. THOSE breeders are in it for the love of the breed, breed quality dogs and know which health/behavior issues to avoid, and care about the pups and where they end up. Look for a breeder who is only breeding when there are already prospective homes lined up--this is a hallmark of the type of breeder you want to work with. Your breeder should be able to show you specific health certifications and tests, depending on the issues that plague your chosen breed (common ones are eye, hip, heart certs).

Anyone who has a pet and breeds it (AKC registered or not) is a backyard breeder. These types of breeders contribute heavily to genetic issues and the overpopulation of pets. No matter how "nice" or "sweet" these types of breeders seem, please don't buy from them because then you help contribute to the problem, instead of being part of the solution.

Buying from a reputable, responsible breeder does cost more, but you will likely save money in the long run, in terms of not having health or temperament issues. And your breeder will always be a lifelong resource who will happily (and knowledgeably) be able to answer your questions.

 

[calypso726]

I posted a while ago about advice getting a puppy (we are looking at getting a pug). Now I have another question. I'm researching getting a puppy and where from and it seems like there are 2 very distinct places to get one from.

1. Looking out of the newspaper for a home that has had their dog bred.
2. A professional show breeder that charges what seems to be at least twice what others charge.

(I am NOT looking in pet stores/etc.)

Can someone explain to me the difference? Are the professional breeders puppies less prone to medical problems? Or is just because of their lineage that they charge twice as much?

I bred and showed Champion Golden Retrievers for years. My strongest recommendation is to go to a reputable breeder. Someone who shows their dogs, belongs to the breed's national club, has signed a code of ethics and only breeds healthy (with proof and documentation) dogs, with correct temperaments. A good breeder is your support system for the life of the dog on all topics, training, health, nutrition etc. 24/7. You won't get this from the backyard breeder selling out of the newspaper. A reputable breeder does NOT sell their puppies in the newspaper. You will find them through their National breed club's web site. We usually have waiting lists well before the puppies are conceived.

The majority of the reputable breeders I know breed from home. These dogs are our family, they live in the home like family. A reputable breeder is most often what is called a hobby breeder. Hobby breeders are often thousands in the hole before we even know if there is going to be a litter. We were ahppy when we broke even. It isn't a job or a business unless they are also showing dogs prefoessionally or run a boarding kennel. It costs a LOT of money to show and breed dogs that will to the best of the breeder's ability be healthy, of good temperament and look like the breed they are suppsoed to be. There is more likelihood that they would be healthy with a good temperament due to generations worth of careful genetic health screening and temperment considerations in the bloodline. The person selling puppies out of the newspaper will not have this information.

ALL dogs I bred or bred to had the following OFA clear hips, OFA clear elbows. Not an x-ray and my vet said they were fine or he/she has no problems. The certificate from OFA that is reviewed by 3 board certified radiolgists. A clear CERF (Eye exams by an opthalmologist) yearly. Clearance of the heart performed by a veterinary cardiologist. All families were given this information of genetic health clearances that went back no less than five generations.

Reputable breeders will not place a puppy with anyone just because they have the money to buy one/ My interview process was very stingent, including, home visits, meeting ALL members of the family and observing them with my dogs. Keep in mind it is extremely rare that you would find a dog/pup bred by a reputable breeder in a rescue group or shelter. Reputable breeders have contracts (mine was 5 pages) that include a take back clause. Any puppy/dog of my breeding was not to go to a shelter under any circumstances. Those were MY "grandpuppies" They all have a home with "grandma" should the need arise no questions asked. The dogs/pups that wind up in shelters usually were bred by a back yard breeder or came from a pet shop/puppy mill.

The cost of a puppy from a reputable breeder while pretty steep is nothing compared to the cost of care over their life. So even if you rescued a dog for a nominal fee, you are still looking at a lot of money down the line. Beyond routine care and food you need to be prepared for the unexpected. Unexpected vet visits can run into the thousands. Going with a repuatble breeder stacks ther odds in favor that the puppies will be healthy and have good temperaments.

Hope this helps.

 

[adventure_woman]

I see by your sig you have 2 small children. Have you actually been able to find a shelter willing to place a small breed dog with you? DD was 6 when we began looking for our dog, and NO shelter was willing to place a small dog with a family with children under 10. Not a single one. They said it was too big of a risk.

Yes, we do have 2 small kids 5 and 1. I haven't actually contacted any shelters around here (or really any breeders either) - I'm just trying to do all our research before hand to figure out what is best.

I appreciate everyone's advice and thoughts. I am definitely going to be looking at all the different websites everyone recommended.

 

[adventure_woman]

To calypso726 and others who have said to go to a reputable breeder:

What type of questions should I ask them? What types of tests would be beneficial that are run?

 

[RMAMom]

Something I haven't seen mentioned is the health guarantee and contract that comes from buying a puppy from a reputable breeder. We picked up our puppy from the breeder a month ago and he has a very strong health guarantee but it also states that my dog can never go to a shelter, if for any reason I can't keep my dog I must return him to the breeder. A reputable breeder breeds to better the breed, they question you and are confident that you will be a good owner and provide a good home for the puppy. They temperament test their puppies and know which puppy will best suit a home with children or other pets or will do better with just adults etc.

If you google Pug forum you will find several boards like this one dedicated to the breed. The people there can steer you in the best direction for your family. whether from a breeder or a rescue I am sure they will steer you in the right direction for your family / situation.

 

[shelly3girls]

Yes, we do have 2 small kids 5 and 1. I haven't actually contacted any shelters around here (or really any breeders either) - I'm just trying to do all our research before hand to figure out what is best.

I appreciate everyone's advice and thoughts. I am definitely going to be looking at all the different websites everyone recommended.

We could not find a rescue who would place a small dog in our home because we had DS who was 4 at the time. We found a reputable breeder/show dog owner. We signed a contract that included our promise that if we ever needed to get rid of the dog for any reason we would return her to the breeder. We also had to agree to take her to puppy training classes and that we would crate train her (she was already crate trained when we got her). There were a couple of other general care promises. On the breeder's end she gave us the genetic testing certification from the parents and health reports. We received a one year health guarantee along with a lifetime guarantee against genetic defects. There may have been more but I cannot remember without looking up the contract. The breeder talked to me for almost an hour then interviewed the family. She was very careful about placing her puppies.

 

[calypso726]

To calypso726 and others who have said to go to a reputable breeder:

What type of questions should I ask them? What types of tests would be beneficial that are run?

For Pugs the recommended health testing prior to breeding testing is for hip dysplasia which mean mom and dad should both have a hip clearance from OFA (so should the grandparents etc.). Clearance for luxating patella (slipping kneecaps) which is common amongst ALL small dogs. CERF clearance (that's for eyes).

Any reputable breeder will belong to their parent club. So ask if they are members in good standing with the Pug Dog Club of Amercia. Web address CLICKY HERE They will usually also belong to the local club. You're in Michigan so CLICKY HERE

Responsible breeders...

* Do not sell their pups to or through pet stores. Instead, they personally screen and select homes for their puppies, advise people on caring for the breed, turn away people whose lifestyle, commitment or home situation does not fit the breed, test for and guarantee the health and temperament of their puppies, have detailed documentation of their pups' lineage, demonstrate knowledge about canine health, genetics, socialization and development, and take back their animals at any time and age if the buyers cannot keep them.

* Do not sell multiple breeds of dogs, since they specialize in one or two breeds.

* Demonstrate extensive knowledge of the breed's history, traits, temperament, and conformation. They have years of experience with the breed.

* Are involved in the showing of purebred dogs. This can take the form of respected dog shows, locally and nationally, and competitions involving obedience trials, sport and athletics. Show and performance events enable responsible breeders to ensure that their dogs display the desired physical and behavioral traits desired for the particular breed.

Every litter of show puppies has some dogs that will never compete in the show ring, often because they have physical traits that do not totally conform to exacting breed standards. However, these pups have been raised with as much planning, medical attention and socialization as their show-quality littermates and make wonderful pets. While ranked dogs are a plus, rank itself is not a sole indicator of quality. It is desirable for the parent dogs to have earned titles on both ends of the dogs' names (Ch. and CGC/TT/TDI at the other end).

Note: AKC registry alone does not guarantee a healthy dog or even one that conforms to breed standards. AKC staff do not visit breeders to view the pups; registration is typically done through mail and involves the honor system. It's like registering a car. You can register a brand new Mercedes Benz as easily as 1970 something beat to heck Gremlin sitting on cinder blocks.

* Keep their dogs as house pets, so they know that the offspring will be good pets as well.

* Value their reputation for seeking to improve the breed. They do not sell pups as a for-profit business. Indeed, many reputable breeders lose money, since breeding and caring for puppies in a responsible, quality-focused manner is typically expensive. They breed only dogs that are themselves good pets and fine representatives of their breed.

* Evaluate the health of their pups using sound, standardized genetic and other testing recommended for the individual breed. Tests include OFA (hip x-ray certification), CERF (Canine Eye Registry Foundation), Penn-Hip (hip joint laxity), SAS (subaortic stenosis, a heart defect common to some popular breeds), thyroid and other measures. They also test dogs for sexually transmitted diseases, like Brucellosis, prior to breeding a litter. Thorough genetic screening enables responsible breeders to minimize their chances of producing a health-compromised puppy.

* Take back the dog at any point in his or her life for whatever reason the purchaser no longer wants or can care for the animal.

* Place all pet quality animals with a contract requiring the purchaser to spay/neuter the pup.

* Provide advice and guidance to purchasers. Interview and usually visit the homes of prospective puppy purchasers, placing pups only with people who demonstrate they can provide safe, responsible homes.

* Has at least the mother dog on premises and let prospective purchasers observe the dog and her health and behavior. Responsible breeders breed their female dog to the best male, not the most convenient one. I rarely bred to my own male, Disney (dog in my siggy). He simply never had what I needed to improve on. So, do not expect to see the sire. I bred to males via shipped semen, or flying the girl over to him in many parts of the country and twice in Canada

* Breed only dogs over 2 years old, and breeds the dog only a limited number of times; not every year

* Line up qualified buyers in advance of birth of a litter and rarely ever advertise.

* Do not separate a pup from the mother and litter before 8 weeks of age. Also deworm and vaccinate their puppies.

* Can provide references for happy puppy buyers.

Hope this helps!

 

[bedogged]

I posted a while ago about advice getting a puppy (we are looking at getting a pug). Now I have another question. I'm researching getting a puppy and where from and it seems like there are 2 very distinct places to get one from.

1. Looking out of the newspaper for a home that has had their dog bred.
2. A professional show breeder that charges what seems to be at least twice what others charge.

(I am NOT looking in pet stores/etc.)

Can someone explain to me the difference? Are the professional breeders puppies less prone to medical problems? Or is just because of their lineage that they charge twice as much?

I have bred and shown Yorkshire Terriers for twenty years and have finished many AKC and UKC champions. I am also a member of the national club as well as the local club for Yorkshire Terriers. In addition, I have also operated a successful rescue for about 15 years.

First, visit http://www.pugs.org/. This web site has a lot of information about Pugs as well as referral for a reputable breeder of Pugs in your area. This is their national club and they screen their members carefully. There is information there about their national rescue group as well.

Rescue dogs make wonderful pets and I strongly recommend that you check that possibility out. If your heart is set on a puppy, you will have to purchase that from a breeder.

When you purchase a puppy from a "show breeder," part of what you are paying for is the expertise of the breeder. They love and care about the breed and are very picky about where their puppies are placed. They will ask you a lot of questions and you will be required to have the puppy spayed or neutered. If the breeder doesn't require this....run the other way. It means that the breeder only cares about the money and does not care what will happen to the puppy.

When you speak to someone on the phone about a puppy, ask them what the most common genetic problems that occur in the breed are? All breeds have them. If they don't seem to know or they tell you there are none.....run the other way. How can a breeder possibly breed to avoid problems if they don't know what they are?

Beware of the term "champion blood lines." Every purebred dog probably has a champion or two in a five generation pedigree. Ask instead if either the sire or the dam is an AKC champion.

Beware of the word registered. Ask if the puppy is registered with AKC? We are seeing a lot of puppies that are come with dubious papers such as the Continental Kennel Club.

Never ever purchase a puppy from a breeder that does not give you a signed contract. The contract should provide you with a spelled out health guarantee. What is and is not covered. At the very least, you should be able to take the puppy, during a specified period of time, to veterinarian of your choice. If the vet finds something wrong, you should be able to return the puppy for a full cash refund, not another puppy. The breeder wlll also include a clause regarding the spay or neuter of the puppy. Usually, the papers are not transferred until proof the spay or neuter is provided to the breeder.

Never ever agree to meet someone to see a puppy. You should be able to see where the puppy was bred. Sometimes individuals will purchase whole litters from puppy mills in the Midwest and bring them in to other states to sell them at a profit. The stories vary. Sometimes it is something like, "I'm selling these for my sister." There is always a reason that they are not listed as the breeder. Often, if they have papers, the papers list only a P.O. Box as an address. Good luck in finding the breeder if there is a problem.

If you purchase a puppy from a reputable breeder, you will probably pay a bit more money, but sometimes you get what you pay for. The breeder is a very valuable source of support and information. Most breeders remain in contact with people they place puppies with for the life of the puppy. You can always call them and ask a question and many breeders will board the dog for a nominal fee.

I hope this has helped you to understand the difference between the two.

 

[calypso726]

Just to clear up some common misconceptions.



* pure bred dogs have more health problems *
Not true. Dogs that do not have numerous generations of health screening behind their ancestry are prone to having more health problems. Vets DO tend to see more purebred dogs in their pratices with problems. But that is because they rarely get to see well bred purebreds from repuatble breeders.

Overall the purebred's initial cost is more than say the mixed breed dog. This includes purebred dogs from pet stores and backyard breeders and even rescue groups. The majority of the purebred dogs will have come from one of those categories. NONE of these dogs have proper genetic health screeing behind them and are essentially ticking time bombs health-wise. The family that spent this good money on their dog is more inclined to have the necessary means to take the dog to the vet. So when the bomb goes off that is where they go and THAT is the purebred dog the vet will see most often. There simply are not many reputable breeders compared to pet shop dogs and BYB dogs. So the vet MIGHT see ONE well bred healthy purebred Golden (in my case) once a year for shots. He sees 20 or more poorly bred ones with issues.

*purebred = inbred*
WRONG! My husband is 100% "purebred" Vietnamese, but he is NOT inbred. Not one person in his family history has every married their father, mother, brother or sister

An inbreeding takes place between father and daughter, mother and son, sister and brother. Not ONE of my reputable breeder friends has taken this step. This happens a lot with pet shop dogs and also with the backyard breeder as they are often not familiar with the pedigree they are breeding into and just breed Fluffy to Spike down the street never realizing they were littermates sold to different pet shops.