public school "supplies" vs. "teaching materials"

VioltePrincess

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http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-licalc014997005dec01,0,7341210.story?coll=ny-top-headlines

Schools do the math
State education department mandates that districts supply expensive calculators, giving parents relief

BY JOHN HILDEBRAND
Newsday Staff Writer

December 1, 2006

Parents who find themselves shopping with their teens for $120 graphing calculators may appreciate this:

In response to complaints, the State Education Department today is informing local school officials that they, and not students or parents, are responsible for purchasing hand-held calculators whenever those devices are required in classrooms. The ruling potentially affects more than 100,000 students on Long Island alone, officials said.

The state's rationale: Calculators are considered teaching materials, like textbooks. In this sense, the state regards the devices as different from "supplies," such as pencils and paper, that are relatively inexpensive and that students can be required to buy.

The state's new directive appears in a Dec. 1 memo to school superintendents and business officials from Charles Szuberla, the department's coordinator of school management services.

"Under no circumstances should students be charged for a calculator or otherwise required to purchase one in order to participate in an educational program," Szuberla declares.

Under state curriculum guidelines, use of basic calculators starts in third grade, while more advanced calculators are used through high school.

The state's announcement is unwelcome news in school districts that, until now, have required students to supply their own calculators. Some local administrators say the state's directive leaves important questions unanswered - for example, whether each student must be given a calculator or whether students can be asked to share in class.

"To me, it's ludicrous," said John Richman, superintendent of Plainedge schools, who said the state directive could cost his district $120,000 in calculator purchases. "If the kid couldn't afford it, we've found one for him. But now, they've created what could be a logistical nightmare."

Many parents, on the other hand, often voice annoyance over the cost of calculators - especially when they have to pay to replace devices lost or stolen.

George Deabold, an East Islip parent and civic activist, was instrumental in pressing the state to take the action announced today, and he says he got the idea after hearing complaints from other parents.

Deabold noted that the state constitution requires free public education. "Free means free," he said.

East Islip school officials say they must review the state directive before deciding whether to change their current policy, which allows inclusion of calculators on school-supply shopping lists given to parents.


Copyright 2006 Newsday Inc.


I had to buy three graphing calculators -- one for each dd, and then I had to replace younger dd's -- and they can be quite pricey.
 
I had to buy one for dd who is a freshman this year! She needed one and her dad, who has gone back to college needed one. I can't imagine if we had more children to buy for!!
 
We handed the graphing calculator down from dd#1 to dd#2 as they were 4 years apart. Worked fine for us.
 
Parents should pay...Kids are going to lose them or they will be stolen and then what?:confused3
Parent will have to pay for it anyway.

Free education???? Yea right....:lmao:
 

Plus, you need the TI89 for college :confused3

I say parents should buy!
 
Perhaps it is time to revert the curriculum back to prohibiting calculators in the classroom.
 
I'm more inclined to say the parents should pay for them. But then that sucks for those who really can't afford them. But this article is talking about Long Island. Is there really a huge need in LI? :confused3
 
bicker said:
Perhaps it is time to revert the curriculum back to prohibiting calculators in the classroom.

well in the case of some kinds of advanced math and calculus, you really can't do these subjects without *some kind* of calculating device. Before calculators, kids used *slide rules* which are also a calculating device. Graphic calculators are also great teaching devices for other reasons -- let kids visualize and make sense of the equations they're learning. I should also mention that "real" scientists, engineers, and mathematicians do very little (if any) calculation by hand. They work intensively with math software. Kids should be learning machine calculation at some point!

I was going to say when I did advanced math in HS, we all had to buy the calculators, which ran about 80-100 bucks each. It was a great hardship for my family. I really don't know what happened to kids who had no way to get this kind of money. Why is it ludicrous to expect a school district to shell out the cash? They shell out money for other expensive supplies, such as lab equipment, computer lab stuff, textbooks, art supplies, machines used in woodshop, etc. No one ever says -- the school shouldn't provide microscopes because they will just get stolen. Let the kids buy their own microscopes! :rolleyes:
 
themarquis said:
well in the case of some kinds of advanced math and calculus, you really can't do these subjects without *some kind* of calculating device.

I took advanced math and calculus in the early nineties... have my degree in Engineering. I never needed anything beyond a $30 calculator for any of my math.

Of course, back then, we had to do all of our graphing by hand, so we really didn't need the graphing calculators.

Yes, kids need to learn how to use calculators and computers. However, there is also a large segment of our younger population (my generation included) who could be off on an important calculation by a factor of 10 or 100 or 1000 and never know it until it was too late. We're raising kids who are too dependent on the answer that their calculator or computer spits out and they don't develop an intuitive feel for the "real" answer. At least when slide rules were used, the student had to figure out the decimal places.

Even with the high-falutin' math programs like MathCad, the person has to put in the right calculations and program the system correctly to get the correct answer. If you don't understand how to do the math, a calculator isn't going to be much help.
 
i know the public schools have to watch every penny, but it seems that if a school district is going to select a curriculum that requires learners to have specific equipment or supplies that the school should ensure the ability to provide these supplies to the students. if the state mandates that a math curriculum must include caluculator instruction-then the state should ensure funding is available to provide the tools necessary for the mandated instruction.

dd's school starts using mathbooks in 1st grade that incorporate calculators (there are actual 'do this on a calculator' pages). the school has old, tired but still functioning calculators that are passed out to the students and used in class only (no calculator is homework is assigned). the calculators never leave the classrooms so there is no danger of loss. since it is rare that a text book ever (even with revisions) keeps up with the pace of technology, even advanced grades can use calculators several years old therefore while there is an initial investment on the part of the school it is not one that repeats itself on a yearly basis.

i think it's interesting that the schools in the op are only now when faced with spending funds themselves for these items questioning weather every student must have one or if it's possible to just share them within the classroom-i tend to think that when the parents were funding these there was likely a hard line rule that every kid had to have their own for use at school and home, and that 2 students sharing in the cost and use of one was prohibited.

it will be interesting to see if there are 'sweeping changes' made to the curriculum with the advent of this ruling. it seems that whenever something shifts from an external funding source for a public entity to an internal, certain things that were 'must haves' suddenly become 'negligible or unneccessary'. i would'nt be surprised to see a decision on the impacted district's part to choose whatever the minimum instructional criteria is-and purchase the minimaly qualifying supplies.
 
Our school district already does this. I never really thought about why, just assumed it was for consistency. If DD loses the calculator we have to pay $95 to replace it.

I know we'll have to buy her one for college (she wants to go into Engineering or Mathematics) but I guess I appreciate the fact that I won't have to deal with this expense for a couple of years.
 
Our school has these expensive calculators FOR CLASSROOM USE.

It's a logistical nightmare: The math teacher has a locked cabinet, which contains a wooden box with little numbered slots to hold the calculators. Every day, the teacher has to take out the box and have students come up to take THEIR OWN ASSIGNED numbered calculator -- five minutes of wasted time. Then at the end of class, the teacher must allow another five minutes for students to return their calculators, and the teacher must verify that they're all in their spots. If the teacher's sloppy for a few minutes and a calculator disappears, who do you think is in trouble?

If a math teacher is absent, the subs aren't allowed to give out the calculators. Another teacher must give up part of his or her planning period time to come in and distribute calculators.

Then there's the cost of batteries.

And the students who don't own calculators aren't able to do their homework efficiently. Just like not owning books, a computer, etc., not owning a good graphing calculator (for any student going beyond Algebra 1) is a big disadvantage. A calculator is a supply, just like notebooks and pencils. Students need their own supplies.
 
EthansMom said:
I took advanced math and calculus in the early nineties... have my degree in Engineering. I never needed anything beyond a $30 calculator for any of my math.

Of course, back then, we had to do all of our graphing by hand, so we really didn't need the graphing calculators.

Yes, kids need to learn how to use calculators and computers. However, there is also a large segment of our younger population (my generation included) who could be off on an important calculation by a factor of 10 or 100 or 1000 and never know it until it was too late. We're raising kids who are too dependent on the answer that their calculator or computer spits out and they don't develop an intuitive feel for the "real" answer. At least when slide rules were used, the student had to figure out the decimal places.

Even with the high-falutin' math programs like MathCad, the person has to put in the right calculations and program the system correctly to get the correct answer. If you don't understand how to do the math, a calculator isn't going to be much help.

oh yes I agree that advanced math can be done without a graphing calculator (hence I mentioned slide rules). I guess I'd tend to think the use of graphing calculators has *improved* advanced math curricula, not degraded them, in that it allows kids to visualize complex equations in order to make more sense of them, to check their work, and to spend more of their time in class *actually learning* advanced math rather than doing tedious basic math. (that is, by the time they are in these advanced math classes, they are assumed to have a good grasp of basic math, and this basic math is not taught again -- therefore sitting for hours multiplying enormous fractions by hand or whetever is actually a huge waste of time and detracts from learning more advanced material.)

You are right that there are some kids who will rely too heavily on the calculators and be shaky with their basic math skills. I'm not totally convinced that those kids wouldnt have been shaky with math skills anyway, pre-calculators. At the very least, calculators ensure that that particular group of kids will be able to balance their checkbook or add up their grocery bill when they get out of school. Not a terrible consequence of calculator use in the classroom, I would think! As for getting an intuitive feel of the correct answer, I assume that that is supposed to happen in elementary and intermediate years, when even if there is some limited material on calculator use, most problems are calculated by hand.
 
What's odd--I went all the way through Calculus and never had a graphics calculator required.

I'm not sure I agree with it--b/c there are so many other things students MUST buy in order to do their "free education" studies....so just b/c something is "cheap", doesn't make it any less required.

What classes are these graphic calculators used for in school anyway? (obviously math but I'm stumped to where the teacher would actually required it in order to do the course). I ask b/c when you get to the more higher maths that become "elective" in nature--then the course is optional so to speak.

My brother had to lay out a lot of money for portfolio materials as an art student. Lots of things required in his coursework and some he did have to pay for himself.
 
i'm going out on a limb here-but i'm guessing when the administrators say that if someone can't afford one and they do their best (the admin) to get one for that kid, they likely are talking about the kids that may be eligible to some type of pubic assistance funding. when i worked in social services we routinely got calls or letters (written by schools) stating an item was necessary for a kid to participate in a class or activity-and asking us to use specialized funding to aquire these. in most cases the kids in our caseloads who 'had to have' these items got them. the kids that did not were the ones who were not on public assistance, whose parents had no 'specialized funding resources' and could flat out not afford them. unless the schools had special funding sources they were willing to cut loose to provide the items those kids largely had to drop out of the classes/activities.

i can see when it comes to an elective type class (choir, band, arts, some sports) the expectation that some necessary supplies be provided by the students/parents (choir costumes, instruments, art supplies, personal use equipment/clothing)-but if a class is a requirement for graduation or is part of the standard curriculum-requiring students to provide the basic tools or (i assume) forego instruction seems to go against all rights to equal access to free education.
 
Beth76 said:
I'm more inclined to say the parents should pay for them. But then that sucks for those who really can't afford them. But this article is talking about Long Island. Is there really a huge need in LI? :confused3

uh, do you think Long Island is one huge wealthy community?

our PTA has a fund to take care of it for those in our district without the ability to pay. you cannot pass the statewide math and science tests without a calculator.

and you have no idea what's included in the curriculum these days if you think you can get by in these classes without a graphing calculator. :rotfl2:
 

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