Problems with Boy Scouts

[riopooh]

There seem to be so many Dis'ers with varied experience - I thought maybe someone could offer advice on this one.

My son has been involved w/ a local Boy Scout troop for almost a year. he joined from Webelos with a group that had been together since Tigers. His best friend joined also but has since left. He has known these kids for years but no real close buddies. The past two camp outs he ended up tenting by himself. Now he is talking about quitting.

My issue: I know it is supposed to be boy run - but I don't think having a kid sleep by himself is a good idea (morale-wise). The leader leaves it up to the boys and my son (who doesn't speak up for himself) gets left out. This is our first experience with this.

Does anybody familiar with scouts agree with me that assigning tentmates be a better idea? Any ideas or suggestions? I'd hate to see my son quit - he enjoys most of the activities. Thanks.

 

[kristen821]

I feel horrible for your son. I was always the quiet kid in grammer school and unfortunately for my parents I came out of my shell in highschool!
My suggestion is for you to invite a couple of the kids (your sons favorites) over to your house for either a sleepover or just to hang out. If he becomes better friends with some of them maybe he will speak up and ask to be in thier tent. Good luck and I really hope it works out for him.

Also, does he have a friend he can convince to join?

 

[Towncrier]

My son James' Eagle Scout court of honor was held just a couple of days ago. He stuck with scouting since first grade, mostly because he had a core group of friends that continued in scouting with him. Boys did drop out as the years passed, but there was always someone there at campouts and events that James could pal around with.

During his Eagle Scout remarks, he mentioned the major difference between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts (and you touched upon this in your post) - that the meetings and troop are run by the boys (with guidance) once they reach Boy Scouts. Is there perhaps another Boy Scout troop in your area that might have more of your son's friends? Or perhaps a larger pool of boys to camp with. I would hate to see him give up scouting because of a couple of bad experiences at camp. Perhaps you could talk to the leader(s) and let them know your concerns (assuming that you haven't already done so). I'm sure that they don't want your son to quit.

Good luck. I hope he sticks with scouting.

 

[pozey]

Both of my boys are in Cub Scouts. My youngest is a Tiger, and the oldest is a Webelos I. The pack that they are in has a "rule" that if the scout goes camping, at least 1 adult has to be with the scout. I'm not sure if the rule applies to Webelos II or not.

Both of my boys enjoy it, but they are also very good friends with most everyone in their pack.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I would have a problem with this....

Scouting is about working together as a GROUP as a DEN or a PACK. This is what the boys should be learning FROM THE LEADER. Not how to watch a fellow scout be isolated.

And, in the example of camping.... the BUDDY RULE should always be very strictly enforced!!!!

This does not sound right to me.

Where is the leadership here?

 

[pkasbohm]

Here the buddy rule is in effect when they go places, but this last year when the kids went to camp they had a tent all by themselves unless their parent came along....everyone had their own tents! He was a weblosI at the time!

 

[buddy&wooz]

There's a big difference between Webelos and Boy Scouts. Once boys get to Boy Scouts (6th grade) they are supposed to be learning to be self-sufficient.

But even in Boy Scouts, the buddy rule should be used- no scout should be camping alone except in certain situations (survival training, etc.) At a troop camp out he should be buddied with someone, and if there are an uneven number of boys they should triple up. Yes, it should be boy-led but they still need guidance- that's what leaders are for. And older scouts should also be involved in helping the younger ones stay on track.

I'd speak to the leader- focus on safety as your concern, rather than "friends." I notice that in scouting ears perk up when liability becomes a concern.

Good luck!

ETA- I know my kids would chafe at having tent-mates assigned, but wouldn't object to having an "odd man out" join their tent. The leader should maybe bring the topic up at a meeting and see how the boys want to handle it- chances are they'll be open to helping your son out.

 

[Kirby]

You can see by my tag that I'm the proud mom of an Eagle Scout. He was in the Scout program from Tiger Cubs. My son's Boy Scout troop was boy run but with behind the scenes guidance from adults. While the boys planned what they wanted to do, made the preparations, etc. the adults did oversee everything. No boy was allowed to sleep alone in a tent. If there was a boy with no sleeping buddy, then that boy was put in a tent with two other boys. Sometimes if there was an odd number of boys camping, then a boy might have to share a tent with their parent instead of putting three to a tent. But we were fortunate to have tents that slept more than two. Having a boy sleep by himself can be a liability issue. Too many things can happen. That is also why an adult can not share a tent with a child other than their son.

Even though he has been with these boys for awhile, you might look into some other troops in the area. Every troop is run differently and one of the others might be a better fit for your son.

 

[missypie]

As the mom of a 15 year old scout, I think this "boy-run" thing is a bunch of #^*#~! First off, no, your son should not be tenting by himself.

Also, the whole idea of the boys teaching themselves or each other to "cook" on campouts is BAD. Has my son learned to cook on campouts? NO. One boy knows how to make pancakes, so he does that every time. For lunch they have cold sandwiches. For dinner, something like hot dogs. Once they even brought freezed dried (just add water) stew. They could have actually taught the boys to cook, but instead it's "boy run", so they learn nothing.

My son would have advanced to Life last September, except that he didn't have a "position of responsiblity." The one main position is elected, then that guy chooses the others. So it's all popularity. My son will have all of his Eagle required merit badges finished, and will still only be a Star scout because he is never chosen or elected for a position of responsiblity...because that aspect is "boy run."

Can you tell that I'm hostile to our troop?

If I were you, I'd talk to someone and if the situation doesn't change by the next camp out, look for another troop.

 

[Microcell]

I have a son that will probably be a boy scout, so this concerns me. I am a girl scout leader and I am very attentive to that with our thirteen girls. I usually do not allow the kids to choose, but rather I count off or have the girls choose out of a hat. I think it helps everyone learn to deal with different personalities.

As a shy kid, it was so helpful to me to have the teacher or coach choosing teams. You can tell I was picked last for everything.

Missy- that stinks about the cooking! My second grade girls know how to make Brownie soup, english muffin pizzas and dump cake already!

Girl Scouts is "girl run" but with guidence. We have sign ups and things that the girls voted on doing, and with my girls it is assumed all the kids will have a turn eventually. I think it is a culture and expectation driven thing that your boys perhaps needed a better leader for.

 

[MerryPoppins]

Another mother of an Eagle Scout checking in. The "boy run" model isn't all bad. Just sometimes people don't know how to manage it correctly. For example, my DH is patrol parent in our patrol. We elect several positions, but DH knows in advance who needs a position. He always has some positions that are adult selected from the pool of boys needing positions. No one needing a position gets left out.

Back to the OP. I'd fill in the adult leader. We had a similar situation a couple of years ago. DH talked to several of our older Scouts and asked them if they could take the quiet boy under their wing for a while without saying anything to him about it. Instead of quitting, he's one of our most active Scouts now. And they were more than willing to help out. They didn't want him to quit. I think boys are often just clueless about other people's feelings. Once they know they try a little harder.

 

[buddy&wooz]

I think the problem is often leaders just don't get what "boy-run" means. The boys need to be given options and opportunities by the adult leaders, then be left free to choose. And if they choose to learn to cook- then the leaders should help them find someone who can teach them. It really shouldn't be a Lord of the Flies thing .

An example- our troop was offered two options for a winter trip- skiing or a cabin campout. It was up to the boys to decide what to do- and they decided to do both . They were able to recruit enough chaperones for both trips. And right now my 7th grader is organizing members of his troop to help with a town "volunteer day"- working with adults to get the job done. He's being taught leadership, but not left completely on his own.

I agree that generally boys just aren't often aware when they're leaving someone out, they just don't think that way. But when they're made aware- they step up and want to help.

 

[mom2boys]

I agree that your son shouldn't be tenting by himself. Your son needs to speak to a leader - Senior Patrol Leader or Adult Leader - about the issue. YOu might want to check www.scouter.com bulletin boards for ideas and approaches. You will find peolpe on both sides of the fence.

My sons' troop is successfully boy run. That doesn't mean that there adults aren't involved. The boys are expected to led and do. If a boy needs a position for achieve rank, he usually gets one. If he is overlooked, he merely needs to speak up. My oldest has been in the troop for a year. He has grown so much and become so much more self-confidient. His choice of troop was not easy. Most of the boys he was in Cubs with transitioned to a different troop. He is still friends with most of those boys but he has never regretted his decision to go with the truly boy run troop.

 

[missypie]

There are some terrific troops out there...my son just isn't in one of them. One local troop has an "Eagle by 14" policy, which is a bit intense for me. Our troop tends to be an "Eagle only if your dad is a scoutmaster" policy. They make it SO SO SO difficult for anyone else to advance. Other local troops are very good at making sure everyone advances at a reasonable rate.

My son has Asperger's Syndrome, making it difficult for him to make friends. We went with this troop because his only two friends were in the troop and we didn't want him to be "odd man out."

It has worked out well socially, but not otherwise. I have notebooks and spreadsheets that keep track of DS's badges and other requirements. That is the only way my son has ever advanced. There is another boy in the troop who also has Asperger's Syndrome. He is my son's age (15) but his parents are "hands off" and that child is still a Second Class Scout! I think it is disgraceful on the part of the adults in the troop to allow a boy who attends all the activities to still be a second class at 15. That is what happens when the adults are hands off.

 

[Pam]

The posts by MerryPoppins and buddy&wooz are excellent and, imo, have hit the nail on the head.

I am also the proud Mom of an Eagle Scout, who is also the current Lodge Chief of his OA Lodge. Boys need guidance from the Troop Scoutmaster and the Committee Members.

I would talk to the Scoutmaster and fill him in on how your son is feeling. My son didn't know anyone at all when he first joined his Boy Scout Troop 6 years ago. He went out and recruited one of his friends from school to join the Troop so he would have a buddy. He also quickly made friends with the other Scouts - the older boys took the younger boys under their wings and helped them out.

If your talk with the Scoutmaster doesn't bring results, I'd try placing your son with another Troop - or call your Scout Council Office and ask to talk to either:

A) The Scout Executive (this is the "big man" at the Council level)
B) The District Executive (he oversees your specific district in the council)
or
C) The Scout Commissioner (he/she should be traveling and checking in with all of the Troops)

Webelos/Cub Scouts MUST have a parent or guardian with them at all camping events. However, a parent can only sleep in the tent with their son, never with another Scout.

In Boy Scouts, the Buddy System is a rule - a Scout never goes anywhere without a fellow Scout. And a parent can sleep with his son in the tent - but only his son.

Any Scout/Scouter over the age of 18 is NEVER to sleep in a tent or use the shower/restroom facilities with a Scout under the age of 18.

My son learned how to cook via the Patrol Method - each patrol cooks for themself. He is presenting a Camping Program tonight at the Council's Roundtable. I am a huge scrapbook and have 12 albums filled with just his Scouting memories. We came across the very first camp-out he had 6 years ago - no parents along, a very small tent with 2 boys, and it rained the entire weekend. My son had photos of the tent blowing over in the storm, the burnt pancakes and the crispy chicken he had cooked. Funny thing was -- he was grinning from ear to ear in every photo.

We did a tally and he's camped 187 nights since that first camporee 6 years ago! His cooking skills have progressed considerably and he makes a mean foil pack for supper.

At our summer camps, we use the platform tents and only 2 Scouts fit in the tent. My son has elected to sleep by himself at different times - he's a snorer and it just works better that way sometimes. The tents are all within spitting distance of each other and no safety issues are at hand.

Boy Scouts is a great program - I hope things turn around for your son and he sticks with Scocuts. I think that once he realizes the awesome events and places he can go, he will love it.

Missypie - you need to go to the Scoutmaster -- and Council immediately and have your son's advancement problems addressed. That is just not right and it needs to be rectified immediately!

 

[tkd lisa]

My son had this problem in a previous troop. And yes, some troops do allow boys to be in a single tent. They aren't completely alone, as the tents are grouped together. My son slept alone on a couple of camp outs, and slept with a boy he didn't get along with on one summer camp. Frankly, I'd rather he slept alone than had to go with someone he was oil and water with.

Yes, I'd bring it up with the scout master. In my case, my son decided to change troops. I had given him the option to quit after he completed the calendar year (he had taken fundraising orders, and I told him he had to stay to delivery them), and in the meantime, he talked with friends in a different troop and decided to transfer.

I hope it works out for your son. Scouting can be a wonderful experience, but it really can vary widely.

 

[clkelley]

Another mom of 2 boys that were active from Tiger Cubs to age 18, 1 Scout earned his Eagle and the other made it to Life and was on National Jamboree Action Center A staff. I'm also still the Troop Committee Chairman.

Just to clarify sleeping alone in a tent is NOT a Violation of Guide to Safe Scouting or Youth Protection. Our troop does not provide tents and each boy brings his own. The tents are within two feet of each other in the campsite. Not a problem!!

Even at summer camp, this year the boys voted to ask for a campsite without the wall tents and bring their own. The summer camp said no problem. I was so happy to hear that, no leaky green canvas saunas this year!!!! I can sleep in my comfy, well ventilated, rainproof Coleman

However, if a troop does provide tents, then YES, the SPL needs to make tent assignments where no boy sleeps by himself all the time, especially a new Scout.

That new Scout patrol needs an older boy as a Troop Guide to help the Patrol Leader work this out.

Please all you folks in Webelos, please visit several Troops before bridging. We originally just bridged to our "feeder" troop, and had a less than ideal Scouting experience for about 3 years. Finally went troop shopping and have had a wonderful experience since!!!!!

YIS,
CC Troop 8 Greater Alabama Council
2005 National Jamboree Boating Staff

 

[Geoff_M]

Let me provide some thoughts as a Scoutmaster of about 10 years now....

First, "boy run" troops are a good thing. However, that doesn't mean they are free to "run amok". Leaders should be on the look-out for problems and step in when needed to make "adjustments".

Second, boys sleeping along is not inherently a "bad" thing... if they want to do so. I have some boys that perfer to have a tent all by themselves on camporees or at summer camp. However, I'd probably discourage it when it comes to new scouts. But sometimes, due to equipment issues, an odd number of boys, etc. you can't help but have an "odd man out". Usually an older boy will jump at the change of having a tent to themselves. A scoutmaster should also made sure that if there's an "odd man out", that it's not the same kid each time.

What to do? Step one, work with the leader. The scout's disatisfaction may not be obvious to the leaders. I've had a couple kids just "leave" my troop, only for me to find out there was a problem I had no idea existed. The kid never talked to me about it. In the case of one kid, the only "commincation" on the topic of his unhappiness was at the end of the last meeting he attended with us when he parted with "I won't be here next week."

 

[missypie]

What to do? Step one, work with the leader. The scout's disatisfaction may not be obvious to the leaders. I've had a couple kids just "leave" my troop, only for me to find out there was a problem I had no idea existed. The kid never talked to me about it. In the case of one kid, the only "commincation" on the topic of his unhappiness was at the end of the last meeting he attended with us when we parted with "I won't be here next week."

Our troop has a policy that communications with the scoutmasters need to be from the child, not the parent. It can be quite intimidating for a 6th grade boy to go to a scoutmaster-in person or by phone-and raise an issue. Many would prefer just to try a new troop.

 

[Geoff_M]

Our troop has a policy that communications with the scoutmasters need to be from the child, not the parent.

I don't think there's a need to be that rigid. Ideally, it should come from the scout (btw, I use the Scoutmaster's Conference as a seems to openly solicite feedback from the scout), but I don't mind getting info from my parents. I don't think a scout's initial "shy" demeanor should set them up for me to lose them from my troop.