Principal called police because our 9 year old rode his bike alone

[Alan1972]

Do you seriously teach your kids to talk to strangers? You want them telling a strange man their name and address? Because we've enforced a no talking policy to any adult that they don't know since birth. We have pounded that into them. I'm very proud that my son refused to tell a stranger his name and address. And you'll say "well the claim was it was a 14 year old girl so it wasn't an adult". Yeah, you got me there! My son should DEFINITELY tell strange teenagers his name and address! That sounds perfectly fine to me!

THIS WAS RETALIATION.

You are so obsessed with protecting the school you refuse to see the truth. And it's not just me. Schools use CPS to harass parents a lot:

https://hechingerreport.org/when-schools-use-child-protective-services-as-a-weapon-against-parents
"Fed up with what they see as obstinate parents who don’t agree to special education services for their child, or disruptive kids who make learning difficult, schools sometimes use the threat of a child-protection investigation to strong-arm parents into complying with the school’s wishes or transferring their children to a new school. That approach is not only improper, but it can be devastating for families, even if the allegations are ultimately determined to be unfounded."

Doesn't that quote sound pretty much what happened to me?

that's a pretty ridiculous policy. children need to learn how to interact with adults,teach them not to speak to adults and you get a kid who cant communicate properly or make eye contact and mumbles in the vague direction of the floor,or waits for mom and dad to make them doctors appointments at age 19. You teach them boundaries and not to share name/address and other personal information,not to avoid speaking. This isnt doing your kids any favors.

 

[DVCcurious]

that's a pretty ridiculous policy. children need to learn how to interact with adults,teach them not to speak to adults and you get a kid who cant communicate properly or make eye contact and mumbles in the vague direction of the floor,or waits for mom and dad to make them doctors appointments at age 19. You teach them boundaries and not to share name/address and other personal information,not to avoid speaking. This isnt doing your kids any favors.

Let's be clear. This is not "no talking to adults ever". This is "no talking to strange adults when you are out on your own riding your bike to the park".

If you want your kids telling strangers their name and address be my guest.

I think that's a HUGE mistake.

 

[Turksmom]

Let's be clear. This is not "no talking to adults ever". This is "no talking to strange adults when you are out on your own riding your bike to the park".

If you want your kids telling strangers their name and address be my guest.

I think that's a HUGE mistake.

So, what should your son do in an instance when he actually needs assistance?
You haven't mentioned him having a cell phone. You can't say he's fine to go off on his own and not have a plan for how he should handle emergencies. What if the good Samaritan was somebody dangerous- how would he get help?

 

[PixieT78]

I am extremely far from an expert on this but am going to throw my 2 cents in as a reader of this thread.

1) you clearly love your son. So much.
2) at 9 years old I was also riding my bike to school. I'm close in age to you. My general feeling (I don't have kids) is that times have changed and that is no longer appropriate. Since it isn't illegal (based on what you've said about the law), one would think a simple ok, he won't ride alone again until he is older, would have been a way to get this over and done with.
3) I think you need to consider if you truly, truly, truly feel that 3 schools, who have independently seen your son's actions/behaviour/marks etc, are wrong in assessing his needs. Does it mean he is autistic - totally no based on your report from a qualified scientist. But that doesn't rule out him potentially needing extra help to be the most successful in school that he can be (ie maybe he can get all B's on his own but with just a bit of assistance, that could be A's). Ask yourself this - at this point, are you looking out for the absolute best for your son, or are you hampered by your own insistance that he not get "special help"?
4) not sure how speech therapy works but how can he have it done properly in a classroom where there are all kinds of distractions? To me it is logical he'd be removed.
5) In regards to his abuse - this is where therapy should come in to help him see that just because he was abused when taken out of the classroom at one school, doesn't mean it would happen again. That he did the right thing telling you about it. That you are here for him. And getting the school that information is paramount to his success because now they can use it.
6) I think you also should make sure you are seeing a therapist to help manage your anxiety and work through this situation.

All in all, I see so much love and hope for your son, but I also see some stubbornness and a need to be right (which I totally have). I think if you are able to work with a therapist and work through your own perspective, this will only be a benefit to you and to your son.

Good luck. I hope you take this in the way it was meant - just some observations based on your posts.

 

[DLgal]

Do you seriously teach your kids to talk to strangers? You want them telling a strange man their name and address? Because we've enforced a no talking policy to any adult that they don't know since birth. We have pounded that into them. I'm very proud that my son refused to tell a stranger his name and address. And you'll say "well the claim was it was a 14 year old girl so it wasn't an adult". Yeah, you got me there! My son should DEFINITELY tell strange teenagers his name and address! That sounds perfectly fine to me!

THIS WAS RETALIATION.

You are so obsessed with protecting the school you refuse to see the truth. And it's not just me. Schools use CPS to harass parents a lot:

https://hechingerreport.org/when-schools-use-child-protective-services-as-a-weapon-against-parents
"Fed up with what they see as obstinate parents who don’t agree to special education services for their child, or disruptive kids who make learning difficult, schools sometimes use the threat of a child-protection investigation to strong-arm parents into complying with the school’s wishes or transferring their children to a new school. That approach is not only improper, but it can be devastating for families, even if the allegations are ultimately determined to be unfounded."

Doesn't that quote sound pretty much what happened to me?

I don't even KNOW the school. What the hell would I have to gain by "protecting" them?

This is about YOUR SON. Not you. Not the old teacher. Your SON. He. Needs. Help.

And yes, I made sure that my kids knew their full names, address, phone number and my full name as well as my husband's, by the time they started riding their bikes to school, together, at ages 10 and 12. Our school is one block from our house. But I made sure they could answer basic questions about themselves if they fell and needed help. And I didn't teach them to fear people who might speak to them in my absence. I taught them to never go with someone they didn't know, especially in a car, and to always look for other moms and dads with kids if they needed help or got separated from us in public.

 

[DVCcurious]

I don't even KNOW the school. What the hell would I have to gain by "protecting" them?

This is about YOUR SON. Not you. Not the old teacher. Your SON. He. Needs. Help.

And yes, I made sure that my kids knew their full names, address, phone number and my full name as well as my husband's, by the time they started riding their bikes to school, together, at ages 10 and 12. Our school is one block from our house. But I made sure they could answer basic questions about themselves if they fell and needed help. And I didn't teach them to fear people who might speak to them in my absence. I taught them to never go with someone they didn't know, especially in a car, and to always look for other moms and dads with kids if they needed help or got separated from us in public.

Allright so we're in complete agreement. Why are you trying to start an argument?

My son knows his name and address, he knows our names, he knows our telephone number.

But I told him never to tell strangers these details. How are you and I any different? Unless you are saying that you told your kids it was OK to tell strangers their name and address.

 

[DVCcurious]

I am extremely far from an expert on this but am going to throw my 2 cents in as a reader of this thread.

1) you clearly love your son. So much.
2) at 9 years old I was also riding my bike to school. I'm close in age to you. My general feeling (I don't have kids) is that times have changed and that is no longer appropriate. Since it isn't illegal (based on what you've said about the law), one would think a simple ok, he won't ride alone again until he is older, would have been a way to get this over and done with.
3) I think you need to consider if you truly, truly, truly feel that 3 schools, who have independently seen your son's actions/behaviour/marks etc, are wrong in assessing his needs. Does it mean he is autistic - totally no based on your report from a qualified scientist. But that doesn't rule out him potentially needing extra help to be the most successful in school that he can be (ie maybe he can get all B's on his own but with just a bit of assistance, that could be A's). Ask yourself this - at this point, are you looking out for the absolute best for your son, or are you hampered by your own insistance that he not get "special help"?
4) not sure how speech therapy works but how can he have it done properly in a classroom where there are all kinds of distractions? To me it is logical he'd be removed.
5) In regards to his abuse - this is where therapy should come in to help him see that just because he was abused when taken out of the classroom at one school, doesn't mean it would happen again. That he did the right thing telling you about it. That you are here for him. And getting the school that information is paramount to his success because now they can use it.
6) I think you also should make sure you are seeing a therapist to help manage your anxiety and work through this situation.

All in all, I see so much love and hope for your son, but I also see some stubbornness and a need to be right (which I totally have). I think if you are able to work with a therapist and work through your own perspective, this will only be a benefit to you and to your son.

Good luck. I hope you take this in the way it was meant - just some observations based on your posts.

1) Thank you. He is me when I was 9. We are basically identical.

2) IF this was about bike riding then yes it would have been over and done with. But this had nothing to do with bike riding. This was about the school psychologist abusing my son, us reporting the abuse, and the school retaliating by reporting us to CPS. They were just waiting for something to use and the bike riding became that thing.

3) We've taken him to world-class experts: Mary Camerata (latetalkersconsulting.com), Dr. Cheri Florence (drflorance.com) and Dr. Joel Becker (cognitiveconsultationhealthservices.com). They have all said the same thing. There is nothing wrong with our son. He's a weird kid. He's stubborn and he hates talking. But there is no neurological problem with him. They have no incentive to lie. So I'm going to trust 3 world class experts over the school.

4) He was removed from class and abused. I refuse to allow the school to remove my son from the class and be taken to a room where there are no witnesses. I allowed him to get abused once. I will NEVER allow that to happen again. He goes to private speech therapy Tuesday and Thursday from 4:30-5:00. I could care less if the school wants to do it, too, just as long as there are witnesses.

5) We called 6 therapists in mid-2020 when he told us about the abuse. All told us the same thing: they refuse to get involved in a school abuse situation. They don't want to have to testify if we sue the school and they don't want to be blacklisted from the district as they get referrals that way. If you don't believe me call some child therapists in your area and pretend your child was abused in school and wants to talk to them and see what they say. Dr. Becker talked to John about the abuse as part of his overall assessment and he offered to continue doing it but he's like $500 and hour so we said no thanks.

6) If my son is ok then I'll be ok.

 

[DLgal]

Allright so we're in complete agreement. Why are you trying to start an argument?

My son knows his name and address, he knows our names, he knows our telephone number.

But I told him never to tell strangers these details. How are you and I any different?

Someone clearly felt he needed help. This is the difference.

Allright so we're in complete agreement. Why are you trying to start an argument?

My son knows his name and address, he knows our names, he knows our telephone number.

But I told him never to tell strangers these details. How are you and I any different?

Didn't you say it was a 14 year old girl who asked him his name? I didn't teach my kids to be afraid of 14 year old girls.

For someone who has instilled such a fear of strangers into your son, I'm absolutely FLOORED that you allowed him to ride his bike alone at 9. Clearly you feel like your son needed to know that EVERY SINGLE UNKNOWN PERSON was a threat to his safety, and he should never speak to them, but that it was also totally fine for him to be out there on his own at a park. Alrighty, then.

 

[PixieT78]

3) We've taken him to world-class experts: Mary Camerata (latetalkersconsulting.com), Dr. Cheri Florence (drflorance.com) and Dr. Joel Becker (cognitiveconsultationhealthservices.com). They have all said the same thing. There is nothing wrong with our son. He's a weird kid. He's stubborn and he hates talking. But there is no neurological problem with him. They have no incentive to lie. So I'm going to trust 3 world class experts over the school.

4) He was removed from class and abused. I refuse to allow the school to remove my son from the class and be taken to a room where there are no witnesses. I allowed him to get abused once. I will NEVER allow that to happen again. He goes to private speech therapy Tuesday and Thursday from 4:30-5:00. I could care less if the school wants to do it, too, just as long as there are witnesses.

5) We called 6 therapists in mid-2020 when he told us about the abuse. All told us the same thing: they refuse to get involved in a school abuse situation. They don't want to have to testify if we sue the school and they don't want to be blacklisted from the district as they get referrals that way. If you don't believe me call some child therapists in your area and pretend your child was abused in school and wants to talk to them and see what they say. Dr. Becker talked to John about the abuse as part of his overall assessment and he offered to continue doing it but he's like $500 and hour so we said no thanks.

6) If my son is ok then I'll be ok.

3) What I'm trying to point out to you is that you are so angry and upset (and rightfully so) about what happened to him at the first school, that you are missing that he may still need some help to achieve whatever HIS version of academic excellence is. At the end of the day, does it really matter WHY he needs the help, as long as he gets what he needs?
4) I completely understand your perspective. Have you asked the school who else is in the room (ie is there also a teacher's aid in there) or can you request there be an additional person based on his needs due to his own history? I would think there could be some accommodations now that they are aware of the abuse?
5) I literally suggest not stopping calling/using online resources/whatever to get him to a therapist. If he was truly abused, this is something that will haunt him and come out when he is older. The sooner he can have assistance with that trauma, the better. And if truly no one wants to do it, go to the media and tell them that you are trying to get therapy for your son who says he was abused at school and no one will take him on. Bet you are able to get someone in quickly that way. Honestly 6 therapists over a year ago is not pushing enough.
6) I know you think so, but you won't be. This has been hugely traumatic for you, based on what you've posted about your anxiety and health concerns.

 

[DLgal]

It literally doesn't matter what any "expert" outside of the school says in regards to how your child is behaving at school. It doesn't matter that he isn't autistic or that he's just a stubborn, weird kid who doesn't like to talk. His teacher (the 3rd one now?) has concerns about how he is doing and sees him struggling and she thinks he needs more support.

My younger son didn't even HAVE a medical diagnosis of autism but he met that criteria EDUCATIONALLY and needed an IEP for social skills, communication skills, self help/advocacy skills, etc. And the "autism classroom" isn't just for kids with autism. Its for kids who are struggling in a classroom with 30 other kids and only one teacher and who need more individual support to reach their potential.

It's too bad you have such a negative view of special education self contained classrooms. They have been a blessing for my kids with all the 1:1 help the get there. There are kids in that classroom who are taking AP classes and plan to attend college after they graduate. It's not some dead end placement.

 

[DVCcurious]

Someone clearly felt he needed help. This is the difference.


Didn't you say it was a 14 year old girl who asked him his name? I didn't teach my kids to be afraid of 14 year old girls.

For someone who has instilled such a fear of strangers into your son, I'm absolutely FLOORED that you allowed him to ride his bike alone at 9. Clearly you feel like your son needed to know that EVERY SINGLE UNKNOWN PERSON was a threat to his safety, and he should never speak to them, but that it was also totally fine for him to be out there on his own at a park. Alrighty, then.

I think there is confusion here on what I've told you was REPORTED to CPS vs what ACTUALLY happened in reality. I'm sure I've added to that confusion and written incorrect things before. So let's clear this up now:

See, the thing is....there IS NO 14 year old girl. That story was completely fabricated. You have to accept the fact that (drum roll)

THE SCHOOL IS LYING IN ORDER TO RETALIATE AGAINST US FOR REPORTING THE SCHOOL PSYCHOLOGIST FOR ABUSING MY SON

The truth is that my son rode his bike to the school and played on the jungle gym. Then the principal called him in to the office, then I came and picked him up. That is according to my son.

The principal called me on the phone and told me to come pick up my son. On Friday at 4:30 when I was in front of the school with the principal and my son's teacher the principal told me he called the police and CPS to report that an autistic child was at his school unattended. This is according to me who witnessed these events.

Friday night I emailed the Superintendent and said that this was a continuation of the harassment we've received from the district and I wanted it to stop. I outlined the fact the district lied on the prior written notice as an example of the harassment and I mentioned the child abuse my son suffered. This is according to me who wrote the email.

Monday afternoon the Superintendent emailed me and said that the principal didn't call CPS. That there was no contact with CPS from the district officials. Instead the Superintendent said that it was a 14 year old girl who called CPS after she saw John fall out of a tree at a pond which is about .2 miles from the school. The email said I should be grateful that such a caring principal is looking out for my child. My son said he was never at the pond. How could the district know a 14 year old girl called CPS on Friday by Monday afternoon? How would a 14 year old girl know my son's name if (as was stated in the email) my son never told her his name?

What I believe happened is after they saw my email mentioning harassment they talked with their attorney about if they could be liable and then they concocted this whole story about a 14 year old girl to cover themselves.

CPS told me they talked to the principal. The CPS report I was given talked about the concern due to an autistic child that has trouble in school who was unsupervised.

I can't prove that the principal made the report, perhaps a 14 year old girl called CPS and reported an autistic child that has trouble in school who was unsupervised. Perhaps the 14 year old girl just guessed he was autistic. And she guessed he had trouble in school. And she knew CPS's phone number. And she guessed my son's full name.

or perhaps it was retaliation.

You decide who called CPS:

14 year old girl
The principal

What do YOU think the truth is.

 

[DVCcurious]

5) I literally suggest not stopping calling/using online resources/whatever to get him to a therapist. If he was truly abused, this is something that will haunt him and come out when he is older. The sooner he can have assistance with that trauma, the better. And if truly no one wants to do it, go to the media and tell them that you are trying to get therapy for your son who says he was abused at school and no one will take him on. Bet you are able to get someone in quickly that way. Honestly 6 therapists over a year ago is not pushing enough.

I talked to the principal at the new school yesterday. She is going to have her school psychologists call therapists and see if one will take us on. She said we probably will have to sign a waiver that we can't call them as a witness in a civil trial.

So we'll see if we can get him therapy.

 

[DLgal]

Dude, good luck. You can't even keep your own story straight anymore. I'm out.

 

[PixieT78]

I talked to the principal at the new school yesterday. She is going to have her school psychologists call therapists and see if one will take us on. She said we probably will have to sign a waiver that we can't call them as a witness in a civil trial.

So we'll see if we can get him therapy.

I'd definitely be signing that waiver if it meant my son got the help he needed.

 

[a1tinkfans]

This entire thread is so sad. No child should have to be on the receiving end of Any abuse, ever.
Your Passion OP is palpable. My heart aches for your son who Deserves to be Helped Any way he can , to reach his potential and move forward in a Healthy way.
By the way ..There is such a diagnosis as defiant syndrome. There are neuropsychiatrists ( not neuro psychs) at Schneider’s Children’s Hospital and a myriad of specialists that can treat , categorize diagnose and offer guidance moving forward. It’s an entire division devoted to Children, if u weren’t aware of them
I would want Updated testing done Each School year by your Own Specialists to keep abreast of any potential changes.

I wish you the strength and fortitude to push thru and continue to provide a Strong foundation at home for your son/family as it Does affect all and there Must be a Safe Outlet/Haven at home. Much Success to your child and Good Health to all.

 

[DVCcurious]

Thanks. I’ve never heard of defiant syndrome. I was only told (by Mary Camaratta, not the school) he had a stubborn personality and didn’t want to show anyone what he knows. See, most kids want Kudos from adults so they try their best. My son intentionally answers wrong and is difficult on purpose so he’s incredibly difficult to assess.

 

[DVCcurious]

and needed an IEP for social skills, communication skills, self help/advocacy skills, etc. And the "autism classroom" isn't just for kids with autism. Its for kids who are struggling in a classroom with 30 other kids and only one teacher and who need more individual support to reach their potential.

It's too bad you have such a negative view of special education self contained classrooms.

My son had an IEP for three years and got Fs on all tests and report cards for everything. On his math test he'd get 9 questions right and 3 wrong and get an F. I asked the principal about this. She said that the school is required to give Fs to any child with an IEP. That instead of being assessed based the normal curriculum those kids are assessed against their IEP goals and as a parent I should ignore the normal tests and report cards and only focus on how my child is doing vs the IEP goals that were set for him.

You're going to tell me that's a lie. That YOUR kids who have an IEP got real test scores and grades. I'll tell you I agree what she said is probably a lie. The school lied to me repeatedly. It's the truth that he had an IEP and he never got a grade higher than an F in three years. Even when he'd get all his spelling words correct he'd get an F on the report card for spelling. As long as an IEP = Fs on all grades I can't allow my kid have an IEP and fail everything.

At the CSE meeting in April 2020 I was told my son was at reading level A. I said "He started at A in kindergarten in September 2017 and he couldn't read. Now he can read and while he is behind where he should be at 8 years old I don't see why you still have him at reading level A". The Head of Student Services freaked out and said "We're not going to talk about the past we're only going to talk about the future!" She refused to answer my question about how it's possible a child who can't read is at level A and the same child who can read is still at reading level A. How is that possible? She dodged and refused to answer and demanded we "move on".

That was 2 months before she filed the fraudulent PWN saying we agreed to put him in the autism classroom in June 2020. Now you'll tell me that the law is that if a PWN says the parents agree and the parents don't agree the PWN is invalid. And I'll say yes that is what the law says. But in July 2020 when I went before a judge and told the judge my wife and I never agreed to change his placement and that by law the PWN was invalid. I told the judge the district had to file a new PWN with their reasons for suggesting the change in placement. The judge ruled in favor of the school and ruled that John would be placed in an autism classroom. Our only recourse was to revoke consent for all services. I understand you don't believe this happened because "it's not how special education works". Everyone has the same response "No, that's not right. The school can't move your son's placement without your consent". I'm sure that's what you believe. I'm telling you what actually happened to me in real life. I agree that what happens everywhere else in the country is probably different. But I'm telling you what the people in the Herricks school district on Long Island did to me between 2017-2020.

I'm happy YOU'VE had a good experience with special education. But you need to realize that other people may have had different experiences. Mine has been a nightmare.

I realize you don't believe my story. No one believes my story. The new school doesn't believe my story. In fact the only person who believes what I'm saying is our attorney. And that's because he's been a special education attorney for 25 years and has seen EVERYTHING. People don't hire an attorney unless things are really bad. He says that our case is not unusual (that when a parent refuses to move their difficult child to a segregated classroom the school will retaliate in these types of ways).

 

[AZMermaid]

I live and teach in AZ. You should move here (haha, i realize moving all the way across country isn’t exactly an option). You can go to any school in the city (state) you darn well want as long as it isn’t full. It’s pretty hard to get assessed and put into special Ed. And if the parents aren't interested, no one will bother because resources are so thin. My district (25ish elementary schools) does not even have a high functioning autism program. You can apply for the State to give you your child’s funding and take him to private school. My school (top 1% in elementary schools in state according to US News) isn’t even starting the IPT process (very very first steps) with anyone until after Thanksgiving. I’ve called CPS on CLEAR evidence of sexual abuse and was told if the child doesn’t disclose verbally, they won’t look into it.

Now we also have 29 kids in a third grade class, 32 in 5th. No aides after Kindergarten (they share 2 aides for 4 classes, our PTO pays for them, not all schools have kindergarten aides). But my school is basically full too. We share a school psych with two other schools (hence the no time to evaluate if parents arent on board). We just got a shared social worker this year with Covid funds. Our ELD (language) teacher is here for 1 hour a day. Funding is pretty awful- but we have low property taxes because of it and no one has time to bother you.

 

[robinb]

I am 100% behind parents advocating for their children, especially those children with special needs.

But there is a difference between advocating and supporting your child and being adversarial and combative. You are doing your son no favors by continuing to be confrontational with the new school system. You are not setting him up for success by limiting how and when they can help him. You started the school year with a list of demands and have continued to ignore and oppose what a 2nd school district and a 3rd teacher has to say about your son.

After 6 months, 3 principals, multiple teachers, school psychologists, 2 school districts, the police and CPS there is one thing in common in all of it. That's you and your son. You are in the center of a tornado of drama and will remain in the center as long as you continue to allow your anger and fear to fuel it.

You NEED to move forward for your son, and to put the past and all your conspiracy theories behind you. You moved, in no small part it seemed, to give your son a fresh start but you have brought all the anger and the baggage with you. Let it go and support your son. Support your son by allowing the school district to provide the services they feel he needs. Support your son by trusting (and, of course, verifying) those services. Support your son by being positive about his teachers and his classes. Support your son by getting him therapy for the trauma of the last 6+ months. Support your son by getting therapy yourself to help you move on and be the dad he needs you to be.

I am sorry that you have gone through so much in the past 6+ months. It does sound terrible. You are now in the situation to start fresh and make things work for your son. Embrace the opportunity.

 

[MantaRider]

I feel like this thread should be removed from the board. None of this information on this thread should be public, especially If there's going to be any legal issues. It also doesn't seem like they have a good grasp on the situation, are interested in getting help, or care about anyone's opinion. They also seem paranoid and a little delusional about the situation. In short, this doesn't belong on this board, and it's only becoming a deeper hole.

And seriously this stuff will be found if you ever go to trial, this needs to be deleted