Priced out

I just didn't read your post that way and was pointing out, for the general public, DCL doesn't really offer any discounts for them. The *GT and GTY rates are just perceived discounts and that Disney, after offering the discount rates to Florida residents, Military and Canadians, then offers discounts to CM's and finally fills the ship.

The fellow DISers and general public then think (and use it to argue all the time on here) that Disney is making all of this money from these high prices that people pay. I've heard a zillion times that Disney can charge whatever they want because people are paying their prices. When in reality, there are a lot of people sailing on these discounted rates, rates that Disney won't offer to the general public, just so DCL can keep the illusion alive.

I didn't mean to get into a debate either, but we just didn't seem to be on the same page.
Actually I do agree with you. I know most people that follow the GT rates don't see them as great discounts. A lot of people can't book a year or more in advance so it's better to book last minute. GT rates are 20%-25% off the current price. If the price has gone up a lot since opening day it's not really a discount, but some cruises don't go up after opening day and the GT rates are well below opening day. I have gotten GT rates that were well below opening day. It just depends on the cruise.
Interline and CM discounts can be as much as 50% off. I would not have cruised 13 times in the last 5 years without the discounts. I would never pay what most people are willing to pay. DCL prices are getting so high though even with a 50% discount I can still sail on another line for hundreds if not thousands less. I would need about a 70% discount on DCL's Baltic cruise to match the price I got on NCL. Yes DCL is keeping the illusion alive, and they even fool people like me that can book with a discount thinking I got some great rate when actually I could have saved myself the stress of waiting to last minute and just booked another cruise line.
 
If the price has gone up a lot since opening day it's not really a discount, but some cruises don't go up after opening day and the GT rates are well below opening day

I wish if you saw one of these deals, you would post it or at least PM me. :D I'm not eligible for any other discounts.
 
I wish if you saw one of these deals, you would post it or at least PM me. :D I'm not eligible for any other discounts.
We'll after seeing the GT rates for October were 2k more than the GT rate I got in 2014...I don't know. I would fully expect to see GT rates on the longer European cruises that are well below opening day prices....just like this Summer.
Now that my kids are in their teen years I don't feel like I need to sail on Disney. Honestly I'm kind of tired of watching prices, and waiting for discounts. I got pretty good at predicting which cruises were going to get discounted, but I'm kind of over it. I don't like to book a year or more in advance and I don't really like booking 2 months out. I can find good prices on other cruise lines pretty much whenever I feel like booking, and this is without any special kind of discount that's not available to the public. It's fun looking for cruises at 3 months out 6 months, 1 year out and finding prices I'm comfortable with I was never able to do that with DCL.
If I do see any deals I will let you know.
 
Sorry if my question is stupid but: Where can you find the GT rates? (Those are last minute reduced rates, right?)
 

Sorry if my question is stupid but: Where can you find the GT rates? (Those are last minute reduced rates, right?)

The *GT and GTY rates aren't last minute reduced rates. DCL likes for you to think they are. Most cruises increase in price from the first day, so that when they offer the *GT and GTY rates they are only reduced rates from the prevailing price. You may be paying 100's or 1000's more than if you booked on opening day.
You can only find these rates by hunt and peck, meaning look at the cruises you want and see if they happen to offer these.

The *GT rates allows DCL to put you in a cabin in one of the broad categories of Inside, Outside or Verandah. So, if you purchased an IGT-you would be anywhere on the ship in an inside cabin that they would choose for you.

GTY rates are guaranteed rooms in a particular cabin category, but leads you to believe you could be upgraded, when for the vast majority of people, this is not true. You are rarely upgraded from the category purchased. For example, if you purchased a 5E GTY cabin, you will receive a cabin that is at least a 5E.

Read this thread if you need more clarification: http://www.disboards.com/threads/guarantee-status-vs-igt-ogt-vgt.2914256/

The only true discounts are Florida residents, Military and Canadian residents. You can find these rates on the DCL website or on this thread
http://www.disboards.com/threads/guarantee-status-vs-igt-ogt-vgt.2914256/. If you don't fall into one of these rates, you're out of luck. The only way to get a good rate in the majority of cases is to book as close to opening day as you can.
 
Now that my kids are in their teen years I don't feel like I need to sail on Disney. Honestly I'm kind of tired of watching prices, and waiting for discounts. I got pretty good at predicting which cruises were going to get discounted, but I'm kind of over it. I don't like to book a year or more in advance and I don't really like booking 2 months out. I can find good prices on other cruise lines pretty much whenever I feel like booking, and this is without any special kind of discount that's not available to the public. It's fun looking for cruises at 3 months out 6 months, 1 year out and finding prices I'm comfortable with I was never able to do that with DCL.

I am in your "boat" also. I completely agree with you and that's usually they way I book and travel, also. That's why I have strong feelings about the *GT and GTY prices being sold to cruisers as discounts.

I hope you have many more cruises in your future, with whoever you wish to!
 
As a reference point we are sailing late May, 4 night on the Dream deluxe interior stateroom (my daughter had a nightmare one time about falling overboard and never wants a balcony again) and it was about $3k...we could have sailed in October out of Galveston for a week for about the same money but decided to make our May trip a land a sea adventure.

2 park days (boardwalk resort), 4 night cruise, 2 more park days (Animal Kingdom Lodge) and we're about $4k before tickets.


We are pretty much doing the same thing in Sept 2 park days (AKL) 4 night dream deluxe family with verandi and 2 park days ( art of animation) for 2 adults 1 13 year old I'm currently sitting at 10k if you take out food. excursions and spending money I'm over 7k.

The cruise portion was a little under 3k
 
There were quite a few European cruises that had GT rates that were thousands below opening day. Ive booked a carribean cruise that was 1700 below opening day. Like I said you have to look at each cruise individually. Also GT is always a discount over the current price. So I consider it a discount.
 
The *GT and GTY rates aren't last minute reduced rates. DCL likes for you to think they are. Most cruises increase in price from the first day, so that when they offer the *GT and GTY rates they are only reduced rates from the prevailing price. You may be paying 100's or 1000's more than if you booked on opening day.
...

I'm not sure why you keep including GTY with *GT rates. The GTY rates are not reduced rates. They are the prevailing rates in categories where the available inventory is low. To equate booking a GTY rate with a discounted *GT rate doesn't make sense to me. That's like calling category 11C a discounted rate because you hope that the category will fill and you will get upgraded to a better category.

I agree that the prices on the discounted cruises have gone up quite a bit since 2014, but so have the opening day prices. Even so, as @Ofinn mentioned, you can still find *GT rates that are lower than opening day prices. Which leads back to the topic of this thread, the prices have gone up so much in the last two years, many past cruisers are getting priced out, even when looking at the discounts offered.
 
I'm not sure why you keep including GTY with *GT rates. The GTY rates are not reduced rates. They are the prevailing rates in categories where the available inventory is low. To equate booking a GTY rate with a discounted *GT rate doesn't make sense to me. That's like calling category 11C a discounted rate because you hope that the category will fill and you will get upgraded to a better category.

I'm putting them together because I think uninformed cruisers perceive them to be discounts. I, personally, don't feel either one of them are discounts.

For the GTY, I think some cruisers think they are going to be upgraded. Informed cruisers know it's not a sure thing, but when we have threads talking about being upgraded, uninformed people are going to think it will happen for them also. Thus, they are purchasing this perceived discount because they think they ultimately get something with a higher value.

Obviously, we disagree on *GT being a discount. It is only a discount from the current rate, as you stated. If that rate has gone up by $100's or $1,000's by the time *GT is offered, I don't think that's a discount. Just my opinion.

All of this is just my opinion. We can disagree.
 
I'm putting them together because I think uninformed cruisers perceive them to be discounts. I, personally, don't feel either one of them are discounts.

For the GTY, I think some cruisers think they are going to be upgraded. Informed cruisers know it's not a sure thing, but when we have threads talking about being upgraded, uninformed people are going to think it will happen for them also. Thus, they are purchasing this perceived discount because they think they ultimately get something with a higher value.

I don't think you are helping uninformed cruisers by calling a GTY rate a discount. The belief that a GTY is a discount is a common misconception on these boards and it is not because they think they will be upgraded. They think it is an actual discount off of the prevailing rates. We do disagree here.

Obviously, we disagree on *GT being a discount. It is only a discount from the current rate, as you stated. If that rate has gone up by $100's or $1,000's by the time *GT is offered, I don't think that's a discount. Just my opinion.

All of this is just my opinion. We can disagree.

There are currently 4 *GT rates being offered (last time I checked). The 10/15/2016 Fantasy has a VGT that is a few hundred less than opening day pricing for a category 7A. The IGT rate is less than $100 more than the opening day pricing for category 11C. The 9/3 and 9/10 Med cruises have VGT rates that are nearly $500 less than opening day pricing for category 7A. OGT rates are a little over $100 less than opening day pricing for category 9D. IGT rates are about $100 less than opening day pricing for category 11C. The 10/7 Magic cruise out of New York has a VGT that is about $400 higher than the opening day pricing for category 7A. The IGT rate is about $300 lower than opening day pricing for category 11C.

So, *GT can be a discount (even when comparing against opening day) while GTY is never a discount. Yes, people sometimes get upgraded with GTY, but that can happen with any category. I think you can agree or disagree over whether or not a discount is a good one with *GT, but to call GTY a discount, is misinformation and confusing to new cruisers, in my opinion.
 
I dont get how 20-30% off a price is not a discount. When you buy a dress or a tv do you look to see what the price was 2 years ago?Probably not.You just know your getting a percentage off. A discount is a discount. I think people forget the majority of people dont plan vacations years in advance nor do they care what opening day prices were.Wether its the absolute best price you could have gotten is irrelevant. Its still a discount.
 
Interline and CM discounts can be as much as 50% off. I would not have cruised 13 times in the last 5 years without the discounts. I would never pay what most people are willing to pay. DCL prices are getting so high though even with a 50% discount I can still sail on another line for hundreds if not thousands less. I would need about a 70% discount on DCL's Baltic cruise to match the price I got on NCL. Yes DCL is keeping the illusion alive, and they even fool people like me that can book with a discount thinking I got some great rate when actually I could have saved myself the stress of waiting to last minute and just booked another cruise line.

I'm not sure its really fair to keep bringing up industry discounts that the general public aren't going to be able to get their hands on... :confused3 Most people are "willing" to pay more because its literally the only price they'll ever see. Trust me, if playing the "wait and see if a privilege discount comes out for me" game would apply to me then my habits would change also, I assure you! :thumbsup2
 
The only true discounts are Florida residents, Military and Canadian residents. You can find these rates on the DCL website or on this thread
http://www.disboards.com/threads/guarantee-status-vs-igt-ogt-vgt.2914256/. If you don't fall into one of these rates, you're out of luck. The only way to get a good rate in the majority of cases is to book as close to opening day as you can.

Thank you. I'm a canadian resident but the promos I've seen so far are always seems to be on 7 days cruises... and even with the 25% off it feels like being robbed. Way too expensive for what it is...
 
My completely unresearched and speculative opinion as to why Disney prices are high and will stay high for the time being.
1. Scarcity of ships. Seriously, they only have four ships, compared to the dozens that each major cruise line has (NCL, RCL, Carnival, Princess etc, etc). So, supply and demand. Don't need to sell as many cabins to be fully loaded.
2. Load factor. Assuming (with conditions) that your marginal cost (cost of operating the ship vs amount you need to collect in fares to break even or profit) is very narrow. You are then highly dependent on pricing your cruises to get to near capacity or full each trip. Plus, you have the costs associated (more food, more cleaning and service staff), more water usage, more fuel use for electricity etc. Some costs are fixed regardless of how full the ship is, but others do vary. So, Disney in charging twice as much as other lines, but willing to operate at 75% full, probably still has higher profits then the fully loaded ship sold out at lower per person costs. (Granted, maybe Disney has slightly higher costs due to quality of staff, entertainment, but I doubt this is much of a factor).
3. Disney brand - there are some people who will only go on a Disney cruise. Other lines don't have this advantage.
4. Co-branding with Adventures by Disney -- some of their European packages are combined with cruises, and these package vacations are also highly priced, so this also drives up the cruise price on some itineraries.
5. An easy way to get Disney Vacation Club members to expend their points -- and high cruise prices means they can get people to spend more of their points then they might on land hotel destinations.
6. Uninformed people who don't do their research. Just as people will sometimes pay too much for a car or a house or an appliance etc, there are enough people out there willing to pay Disney's prices. Unless they see a dropoff in their bookings, they are charging what the market will bear.
7. Disney willing to let cabins go empty at higher prices up until closer to cruise date, and then has an efficient sales and promotion strategy to top up the ship at lower prices for unused cabins but still at a profit.
8. Beverage sales and add ons make huge additional money for Disney (as well as other cruise lines).

So, could some of these factors change in the future?
1. Two additional ships means more cabins to fill. So, this might have a slight impact.
2. Competition from other cruise lines. They are priced lower and have more options. At some point, this could cut into Disney'd market share.
3. Cost of operating. At some point, if you don't have enough bookings, you are operating your ship at a loss. I think Disney will get to the point where they need to ensure they are closer to sold out to maintain their profit margin.
4. Overall global tourism competition or economic factors are unknowns. Could result in discounts for Europre destinations, but on the other hand, could drive up costs for Caribbean trips leaving from US ports being more popular
5. Seem to be growing complaints about quality of the Disney food and service. So, if demand goes down because of this, they have to reduce cost to bring demand back up to their profit load levels.

Overall, though, I think the factors keeping Disney's prices high are going to continue for a long time. It doesn't matter how much people complain or say they are taking their business elsewhere, there seem to be enough core returning cruisers, and a market of new ones, coming on board willing to pay Disney's prices. Until demand drops off at their current prices, they will stay at this level.
 
As a point of comparison -- we paid $4,300 for there adults, in a verandah room, for the 11-night WBTA on the Magic next year. That is with all taxes and port fees. So it is almost half of what you were quoted for the Fantasy for 7-days. You might get a better price during a different time of year, but it seems anymore that Disney will always be higher than other cruise lines for similar itineraries.
 
As a point of comparison -- we paid $4,300 for there adults, in a verandah room, for the 11-night WBTA on the Magic next year. That is with all taxes and port fees. So it is almost half of what you were quoted for the Fantasy for 7-days. You might get a better price during a different time of year, but it seems anymore that Disney will always be higher than other cruise lines for similar itineraries.
We looked at that cruise. But once you add the airfare it is priced just as high as many others I do not need airfare for.
 
My completely unresearched and speculative opinion as to why Disney prices are high and will stay high for the time being.
1. Scarcity of ships. Seriously, they only have four ships, compared to the dozens that each major cruise line has (NCL, RCL, Carnival, Princess etc, etc). So, supply and demand. Don't need to sell as many cabins to be fully loaded.
2. Load factor. Assuming (with conditions) that your marginal cost (cost of operating the ship vs amount you need to collect in fares to break even or profit) is very narrow. You are then highly dependent on pricing your cruises to get to near capacity or full each trip. Plus, you have the costs associated (more food, more cleaning and service staff), more water usage, more fuel use for electricity etc. Some costs are fixed regardless of how full the ship is, but others do vary. So, Disney in charging twice as much as other lines, but willing to operate at 75% full, probably still has higher profits then the fully loaded ship sold out at lower per person costs. (Granted, maybe Disney has slightly higher costs due to quality of staff, entertainment, but I doubt this is much of a factor).
3. Disney brand - there are some people who will only go on a Disney cruise. Other lines don't have this advantage.
4. Co-branding with Adventures by Disney -- some of their European packages are combined with cruises, and these package vacations are also highly priced, so this also drives up the cruise price on some itineraries.
5. An easy way to get Disney Vacation Club members to expend their points -- and high cruise prices means they can get people to spend more of their points then they might on land hotel destinations.
6. Uninformed people who don't do their research. Just as people will sometimes pay too much for a car or a house or an appliance etc, there are enough people out there willing to pay Disney's prices. Unless they see a dropoff in their bookings, they are charging what the market will bear.
7. Disney willing to let cabins go empty at higher prices up until closer to cruise date, and then has an efficient sales and promotion strategy to top up the ship at lower prices for unused cabins but still at a profit.
8. Beverage sales and add ons make huge additional money for Disney (as well as other cruise lines).

So, could some of these factors change in the future?
1. Two additional ships means more cabins to fill. So, this might have a slight impact.
2. Competition from other cruise lines. They are priced lower and have more options. At some point, this could cut into Disney'd market share.
3. Cost of operating. At some point, if you don't have enough bookings, you are operating your ship at a loss. I think Disney will get to the point where they need to ensure they are closer to sold out to maintain their profit margin.
4. Overall global tourism competition or economic factors are unknowns. Could result in discounts for Europre destinations, but on the other hand, could drive up costs for Caribbean trips leaving from US ports being more popular
5. Seem to be growing complaints about quality of the Disney food and service. So, if demand goes down because of this, they have to reduce cost to bring demand back up to their profit load levels.

Overall, though, I think the factors keeping Disney's prices high are going to continue for a long time. It doesn't matter how much people complain or say they are taking their business elsewhere, there seem to be enough core returning cruisers, and a market of new ones, coming on board willing to pay Disney's prices. Until demand drops off at their current prices, they will stay at this level.
I agree with this and would add on that they must charge higher prices to make up for the lack of casinos that most of the other lines have.

I also think DCL has a ton of first time cruisers who, like you pointed out in #6, are just kind of unaware of the complete cost factor. I certainly fit into that category. Then, once we get hooked.....we just don't want to stop.

Had we not been traveling with family when we did the Carnival Vista this past June, I know we would have cancelled and never ventured out of the DCL water. I'm so glad we did! Aladdin may have shone Jasmine the world, but Carnival and other lines have opened up a whole new world to me, and I couldn't be happier!
 
I don't think you are helping uninformed cruisers by calling a GTY rate a discount. The belief that a GTY is a discount is a common misconception on these boards and it is not because they think they will be upgraded. They think it is an actual discount off of the prevailing rates. We do disagree here.

I don't think you understand my posts. I'm not calling them a discount. I'm saying people, think they are discounts.
I'm saying other people think they are discounts, not me.

We only disagree as to the reason other people think they are discounts.

I took my first Disney cruise in 2005. I understand the pricing.
 
[QUOTE="Club Disney Chandler, post: 56255091, member: 478299"
I also think DCL has a ton of first time cruisers who, like you pointed out in #6, are just kind of unaware of the complete cost factor. I certainly fit into that category. Then, once we get hooked.....we just don't want to stop.
[/QUOTE]
That is us as well, to a tee! I never wanted to cruise as I get very ill on boats however a friend convinced me to come with her and her daughters on DCL and when I got back I said to DH that we had to go back. Now, 12ish years later, I have learned that there is a world beyond DCL and I can do my beloved B2B's and make them B2B2B2B's if I want for the same price. I now know that what other people write is subjective and maybe the nickle and diming they talk about is in fact not a full truth or at least only what they believe.

Amazing what you find out when get past being worried about trying other lines.
 

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