Preschool Evaluations

[carrie6466]

Hi. I've never posted here before, but I do read from time to time and see how helpful you all are so I thought I'd give it a shot. I'm looking for advice on where to go from here:

My dd 4's preschool teacher recommended a speech evaluation at the beginning of the school year. Due to a mix-up with them supposedly not receiving the paperwork that I sent on 10/30, I wasn't contacted until after Thanksgiving. I resent all the paperwork and finally she was seen after the New Year.

With my school district, when any eval is requested for any reason, they also do a psychological eval. So, even though we were requesting a speech eval, the first one she saw was the psychologist. Who recommended an OT eval. Which she saw next. The last one to see her was the speech eval.

I just got all the results back yesterday. I do not understand a lot of what they are saying. I am going to be called to a meeting with the Preshcool Special Ed department and they are going to give me the findings and recommendations for any aid she requires. I do not want to go in there blind.

Let me also say that from there beginning there have been things about her that are a little 'different'. Nothing earth-shattering, just not 'right'. My son now 18 was diagnosed with ADHD at this age, so I am familiar with a lot of dealing with the school district, etc on different matters. These results are so far afield from what we expected that I was just dumbfounded.

First of all, despite average language skills her pragmatic language function is moderately delayed...I don't know what pragmatic language function is. They say poor conversational skills, fluctuating eye gaze, reduced interaction with peers (all of which we've noticed) and persevarative speech patterns (again I have no clue what this is). They also stated her oral motor skills are moderately impaired.

Fine motor and visual motor integrations skills are borderline. Visual perception below average and motor coordination below average. Delays in sensory modulation poor auditory, vestibular, touch and multi-sensory processing. Sensory seeking emoionally reactive and inattention/distractibility. She also seems to be displaying a sensitivity to low-frequency noises. This all then goes into social/emotional development, which she also got a lot of low scores on from they psych, the teacher, and apparently answers to questions they asked me.

There was a lot more to this but most of the findings from the psychologist and the OT concur. Speech she definitely is going to be recommended for.
I don't know what my next step needs to be. Do I go to a ped. of some kind with this eval for a diagnosis of some kind? More testing? Do I leave this in the hands of the school board and trust they know what they are doing (from my experience, highly unlikely)? Can anyone help?

THanks if you made it this far, sorry this post was so long!

 

[HopperFan]

I absolutely would never leave it to school systems professionals. I would call your pediatrician for an appointment immediately, bring all paperwork with you, discuss what they found with what your doctor and ask for a referreal to a specialist in the area.

Sometimes it can take awhile to get in to see specialist which is why I would start now. You want to try and have a good assessment prior to the end of the school year so placement for next year as well as services are appropriate for your child.

My child is 24 and I can't tell you how many times the school and the doctors do not agree (and I am in one of the top systems in our State). What I have also seen happen is children with borderline issues, placed in "specially mixed classrooms" because the school receives a great deal money for that child from the State. It is unfortunate, but children with minor issues have the potential to bring a system big bucks which helps to offset their expenses with children with larger problems.

I remember when my typical child was given a bizarre outdated test in Kind and most of the class failed. This qualified that school for a fully paid teacher's assistant from the State. When I went to a meeting and asked to see the test, I saw that it was a recipe for failure and very clever on the schools part to find a way for more funds. I was vocal, other parents got a lesson, and while we got the assistant.......we also made sure that this test did not go in their records and the names would be removed from the test. I was also told when this same child was in preschool that he had been evaluated by a speech therapist and he had big problems and needed therapy (at my expense). I threw it away. He is in college and speaks beautifully and is often speaking in front of thousands.

I'm getting too long, my point is stay on top of what they are saying, sign nothing until you have had these issues evaluated by an independent source and whenever possible come to meetings with DH (if he wears a suit it always changes the atmosphere ) or someclose to child, so that two people are hearing what they are saying and able to discuss it later.

I think it's great that services are being offered, you just want to make sure they are needed and that they are the correct services for your child.

 

[Forevryoung]

Deep breath first

Your daughter is still young and early intervention works wonders. Your daughter might just need some help to catch up. Do not accept a diagnosis at this age (too young).

Additionally, remember "low average" isn't bad and will not result in services provided (significant deficit must be shown)

Answers to your speech specific questions:

First of all, despite average language skills her pragmatic language function is moderately delayed...I don't know what pragmatic language function is. They say poor conversational skills, fluctuating eye gaze, reduced interaction with peers (all of which we've noticed) and persevarative speech patterns (again I have no clue what this is). They also stated her oral motor skills are moderately impaired.

Pragmatics: the use of language (conversational skills), it includes eye gaze and would impact interactions with peers. Think of things like initiating conversation, staying on topic, turn taking...

Perseverative speech patterns and oral motor skills go hand in hand- does she move her mouth funny to make sounds, does she have trouble getting the right sounds out (saying the wrong one over and over...) Oral motor skills are things like sticking out your tongue, moving it from side to side, puckering lips (like blowing a kiss). Oral motor can be strengthened/improved with exercises!

As I said, personally I would avoid a label/diagnosis for now (you don't need one for services at this age)

If you disagree with anything the report says (or think that it was an off day etc for something) then you can request a private evaluation that the school must pay for

Let me know if you have any other speech related questions

 

[carrie6466]

I absolutely would never leave it to school systems professionals. I would call your pediatrician for an appointment immediately, bring all paperwork with you, discuss what they found with what your doctor and ask for a referreal to a specialist in the area.

Sometimes it can take awhile to get in to see specialist which is why I would start now. You want to try and have a good assessment prior to the end of the school year so placement for next year as well as services are appropriate for your child.

My child is 24 and I can't tell you how many times the school and the doctors do not agree (and I am in one of the top systems in our State). What I have also seen happen is children with borderline issues, placed in "specially mixed classrooms" because the school receives a great deal money for that child from the State. It is unfortunate, but children with minor issues have the potential to bring a system big bucks which helps to offset their expenses with children with larger problems.

I remember when my typical child was given a bizarre outdated test in Kind and most of the class failed. This qualified that school for a fully paid teacher's assistant from the State. When I went to a meeting and asked to see the test, I saw that it was a recipe for failure and very clever on the schools part to find a way for more funds. I was vocal, other parents got a lesson, and while we got the assistant.......we also made sure that this test did not go in their records and the names would be removed from the test. I was also told when this same child was in preschool that he had been evaluated by a speech therapist and he had big problems and needed therapy (at my expense). I threw it away. He is in college and speaks beautifully and is often speaking in front of thousands.

I'm getting too long, my point is stay on top of what they are saying, sign nothing until you have had these issues evaluated by an independent source and whenever possible come to meetings with DH (if he wears a suit it always changes the atmosphere ) or someclose to child, so that two people are hearing what they are saying and able to discuss it later.

I think it's great that services are being offered, you just want to make sure they are needed and that they are the correct services for your child.

My 18 yo is a freshman in college. I fought the school district literally for 12 years. Mostly because they won't offer two areas of Special Ed. My son is extremely gifted and because he was in that program my choice was continue with it or drop it and get him other services. The school district I am in gives the bare minimum of what they must provide.

I agree with bringing everything to the ped and being referred to a specialist. What I don't know is what kind of specialist? There seem to be such a variety of things she's got issues with. I didn't even go into them all because my post was getting too long.

I have also learned to sign nothing with regards to the school district if I don't understand what they are offering or don't agree.

I am just so confused at this point.

 

[carrie6466]

Deep breath first

Your daughter is still young and early intervention works wonders. Your daughter might just need some help to catch up. Do not accept a diagnosis at this age (too young).

Additionally, remember "low average" isn't bad and will not result in services provided (significant deficit must be shown)

Answers to your speech specific questions:



Pragmatics: the use of language (conversational skills), it includes eye gaze and would impact interactions with peers. Think of things like initiating conversation, staying on topic, turn taking...

Perseverative speech patterns and oral motor skills go hand in hand- does she move her mouth funny to make sounds, does she have trouble getting the right sounds out (saying the wrong one over and over...) Oral motor skills are things like sticking out your tongue, moving it from side to side, puckering lips (like blowing a kiss). Oral motor can be strengthened/improved with exercises!

As I said, personally I would avoid a label/diagnosis for now (you don't need one for services at this age)

If you disagree with anything the report says (or think that it was an off day etc for something) then you can request a private evaluation that the school must pay for

Let me know if you have any other speech related questions

Thank you so much for this info. Her below average scores (7th percentile) were in Articulation, phonological processes, and visiual motor integration
(6th percentile)

and the next comment was "significant sensory processing difficulties." They didn't give an above-, below- or average comment or score with that

Low average was socialization (18 percentile)...with significant levels of oppositional, anxiety, restless-impulsive, emotionally labile and hyperactive behaviors.
Again I am not sure what the whole " significant levels" thing signifies. They made NO recommendations at all in the report I received a copy of. With my son, after the evaluations, they asked me what I thought he should be given! I had no idea and I want to be better prepared this time around.

I do not want a label at this point, she is only starting kindergarten in September. I do know that when we register for K she will be given some of these evals again, even though they were just done, because these were for this school year, not next school year.

 

[merryweather20]

Its also important to consider that the people who filled out her evaluation might be nuts. As a previous poster said sometimes school employees can have ulterior motives when filling out these kinds of evaluations.

They've put alot of diagnoses down on paper, but how much time did they really spend with your daughter to make these diagnosis? Some of these same things can be said of a four year-old who is simply shy, or quiet around unfamiliar adults. How is she around her swimming teacher, friends parents etc? That will give you a clue as to how seriously you want to take some of the school's comments.

I think talking to her ped s a good idea too, as the above poster said.

When my cousin was four he wasn't the best behaved Turns out he didn't think much of his teacher and he was ignoring her. The teacher decided he needed a hearing test, and when the specialist came during Library class my cousin was none too pleased and ignored the specialist as well. The specialist decided he was profoundly deaf and hauled my aunt and uncle in for a meeting. My Uncle had the unfortunate task of trying to explain that his son wasn't deaf he was just badly behaved

So while it is good to seek help early for things, the experts can't tell everything about your child in only a few hours. Trust your instincts, and ask lots of questions!

 

[tweedlemom]

I definitely agree with meeting with your pediatrician. Get all the 'scripts/referrals you need to see whatever specialists he/she recommends. It can take a year to see some neurologists, developmental pediatricians, etc. Make the appointments then find out what their cancellation policy is, so if down the road you don't need the appointments, you can always cancel in a timely manner. Also, see if your pediatrician recommends outpatient therapies of any kind. These, too, can sometimes have waiting lists up to a year. Good luck! You'll get through this!

 

[carrie6466]

Its also important to consider that the people who filled out her evaluation might be nuts. As a previous poster said sometimes school employees can have ulterior motives when filling out these kinds of evaluations.

They've put alot of diagnoses down on paper, but how much time did they really spend with your daughter to make these diagnosis? Some of these same things can be said of a four year-old who is simply shy, or quiet around unfamiliar adults. How is she around her swimming teacher, friends parents etc? That will give you a clue as to how seriously you want to take some of the school's comments.

I think talking to her ped s a good idea too, as the above poster said.

When my cousin was four he wasn't the best behaved Turns out he didn't think much of his teacher and he was ignoring her. The teacher decided he needed a hearing test, and when the specialist came during Library class my cousin was none too pleased and ignored the specialist as well. The specialist decided he was profoundly deaf and hauled my aunt and uncle in for a meeting. My Uncle had the unfortunate task of trying to explain that his son wasn't deaf he was just badly behaved

So while it is good to seek help early for things, the experts can't tell everything about your child in only a few hours. Trust your instincts, and ask lots of questions!

The evaluations were received through the school district but actually done by a huge private company which has offices in 6 counties and does every possible kind of evaluation and therapy service. They are not employed in an way by the school district. My district doesn't actually do the evaluations unless the children are already in the school system. DD goes to a private pre-school.

I could have gone to this company myself, but then I would have had to pay for this. The SD gives you a choice of about 30 different agencies that do evaluations and you get to choose which one you want to use. As far as time goes, each eval was done on a separate day, encompassing her whole
3-hr school day. Each professional came to the school, did classroom observation time (without me present), the testing, evaluations, spoke to her teachers and the school director and then met with me at a different time. During the time I saw her interacting with these evaluators, she behaved as she does with everyone else.

About your cousin...I have one of those, too or I thought I did at any rate. When he was in Kindergarten, he and his teacher definitely had their differences. She recommended him for Special Education classes. We opted not to take her recommendation and brought him to a developmental ped. instead. That was how we found out that he had ADHD. We did not listen to them at first, resisting medication. Until 2nd grade we tried behavior mod, diet changes, therapy with a psychologist, you name it. We finally gave it up and put him on the meds in second grade. He was then put into the gifted and talented program. It was like a different kid. I don't want to make the mistake again of waiting and losing years of early education because I am stubborn

I really, really want to thank you guys for all your input...you are all making me really think about this! I know that things could be a lot worse and even to me some of this seems kind of silly and maybe over-reactive. I really think a lot of it is immaturity, she is the baby and the only girl on my husband's side. There are only 2 other granddaughters on my side, but one is a baby and the other lives 1000 miles from my mom and dad. I do know she is a bit spoiled, too. She's fine alone, but when she is with other people it's a nightmare most times. She has playdates, because I get along with the moms. Even on playdates she plays together 'separately' if you know what I mean. She doesn't interact with other kids for the most part, not even at school.

 

[belle&beast]

I am a preschool speech pathologist and I'm feeling a little sad reading some of the previous posts. I work hard and love my job and I certainly hope the parents of my students have more positive experiences. But I have to say we conduct our evaluations differently. Many children are enrolled in our preschool program at 2 years old and we know them well when we begin evaluations. We have an evaluation team that sees kids that are not yet enrolled in preschool and they do gove their recommendations based upon an assessment which includes in depth parent interviews.

OP, you are are your child's best advocate and it saddens me that you felt like you have had to fight to get what you needed in the past. I am a professional in the school system, but I am also a mom and have a son with a speech IEP, so I have been on both sides of the table. If you are feeling that your voice may not be heard, look into a parent advocate. In my experience, advocates are very helpful to both the school personnel and families. In fact, I love when an advocate comes to our conferences because they truly have the child's best needs at heart. Good luck and I hope all goes well.

 

[LuvsTinker]

I agree you should have a private eval done, but also you know your daughter best and have to go with your gut.

Our school district dropped the ball big time in saying my son only had a speech delay. Fast forward 5 yrs and it's so obvious there is much more going on than just a speech delay and we knew in our gut at that time he needed more therapy than what the SD was offering. So that street goes both ways with maybe over dx a bit and under dx. So I always advise on private evals in addition to the SD.

Good luck to you.

 

[carrie6466]

I am a preschool speech pathologist and I'm feeling a little sad reading some of the previous posts. I work hard and love my job and I certainly hope the parents of my students have more positive experiences. But I have to say we conduct our evaluations differently. Many children are enrolled in our preschool program at 2 years old and we know them well when we begin evaluations. We have an evaluation team that sees kids that are not yet enrolled in preschool and they do gove their recommendations based upon an assessment which includes in depth parent interviews.

OP, you are are your child's best advocate and it saddens me that you felt like you have had to fight to get what you needed in the past. I am a professional in the school system, but I am also a mom and have a son with a speech IEP, so I have been on both sides of the table. If you are feeling that your voice may not be heard, look into a parent advocate. In my experience, advocates are very helpful to both the school personnel and families. In fact, I love when an advocate comes to our conferences because they truly have the child's best needs at heart. Good luck and I hope all goes well.

How do you go about finding an advocate? Is this someone I can bring to the initial meeting with me? I was sent the originals of the results at the same time the school district was sent copies. I am now waiting for the district to contact me to have a "special school board" meeting to see what my daughter will qualify for, if anything. When the district contacts me, I've been told the meeting will take place within a week or so. That is why I am trying to kind of rush the rest of this...I don't want to be blindsided when I go in there, without knowing what they are talking about!

I did trying getting in touch with ped today, but I had an MRI for myself and by the time I got back, they were closed for the day. First thing tomorrow I am going to see if they got copies of this stuff (they were supposed to) and if not, I'm going to ask if I can bring it in and have the dr. review it and discuss it with me. I guess that will be the first step at this point.

 

[Forevryoung]

Thank you so much for this info. Her below average scores (7th percentile) were in Articulation, phonological processes, and visiual motor integration
(6th percentile)

By the time a child is 4, they should be intelligible to a stranger (that's how good articulation skills should be)

articulation is how you make the sounds- for example, you close and open your lips to make a "b"

phonological processes- things people do to make words easier to say examples: substitutions of sounds, reducing syllables to make words easier (nana instead of banana), eliminating sounds in words to make them easier (nack instead of snack) most of these are gone by the time the child is 4

articulation/phonological processes "disorders" are pretty typical in speech therapy

 

[belle&beast]

How do you go about finding an advocate? Is this someone I can bring to the initial meeting with me? I was sent the originals of the results at the same time the school district was sent copies. I am now waiting for the district to contact me to have a "special school board" meeting to see what my daughter will qualify for, if anything. When the district contacts me, I've been told the meeting will take place within a week or so. That is why I am trying to kind of rush the rest of this...I don't want to be blindsided when I go in there, without knowing what they are talking about!

I did trying getting in touch with ped today, but I had an MRI for myself and by the time I got back, they were closed for the day. First thing tomorrow I am going to see if they got copies of this stuff (they were supposed to) and if not, I'm going to ask if I can bring it in and have the dr. review it and discuss it with me. I guess that will be the first step at this point.

Every state/area has their own advocates. Google "parent advocates" with your city and state and hopefully you will find some information. The advocates are well versed in the law and parental rights and make sure that the school is following the law. On the other hand, the advocates also help parents to realize when their expectations exceed what is appropriate for a school environment. They are very fair and in my experience both sides feel they have been heard and come to an agreement everyone feels is appropriate.

 

[tweedlemom]

Good idea to make copies for your doctor! It is smart to keep him/her in the loop as much as possible. He/she can assist you much easier, should something come up in the future, if the copies of the records, results, etc. are already in your daughter's file in his/her office. My son tends to be very healthy, and sometimes he only sees his ped. once a year for his annual check up, but I make sure to send him copies of all pertinent info, that way, if I have a question and call and leave a message, he can call me back and he already has the info right in front of him in my son's file.

 

[DevilDuckie]

I absolutely would never leave it to school systems professionals. I would call your pediatrician for an appointment immediately, bring all paperwork with you, discuss what they found with what your doctor and ask for a referreal to a specialist in the area.

I agree!

Ask if he agrees with their assessment. Ask what the unfamiliar terms mean. Ask, ask, ask!

 

[carrie6466]

Just a little update, to confuse me even more! I get a call this afternoon from the team leader (psychologist) and I ask him to explain some of this stuff to me. He states that he felt from his evaluation that DD was quite deficient (sp) in her fine motor skills and needed OT. The OT eval did not agree and said she is borderline. So I asked him where this puts me. He told me not to worry about it and see where she is at in a FEW YEARS!

I am definitely going to find someone else to look at her. If he is right and it's nothing to worry about now, great. If he is wrong, we are looking at a 'few years' she may lose out of part of her education. Am I over reacting here? BTW one thing I forgot to mention is that she was 56 months at the time of the tests. She tested at 40 - 42 months on 50 % or more of the OT evals.