Pre-K bullying

[mjkacmom]

Why is it that the term "Kids will be kids" when used in these types circumstances are usually stated by the trouble makers parents? This is the attitude of the bully's parents in my cul de sac for sure. It is NOT my attitude, and should not be Carte Blanche for kids to pick on others and behave badly towards them. If I was the parent in the OP's situation I would have done the same thing, hopefully not screaming, but my voice would most definitely be different than my normal speaking voice.

It really surprises me with all the post here stating they would be very upset with the parent correcting the pushing boy. I must be crazy, because I would be upset with my child who was doing the pushing.

I don't think that's what people are saying. I think they're saying that it is not unheard of that preschool boys sometimes push, it's wrong, and they need to be disciplined. However, this doesn't mean they're going to end up juvenile deliquents. As adults, we can discipline without yelling loudly at children, especially a stranger. Is it okay for an adult to tell a child to stop doing something wrong? Yes. Is it okay for an adult to yell, in a threatening manner, at a preschooler? No. If the teacher yelled loudly at the child, everyone would be up in arms.

 

[tasha99]

I don't think that's what people are saying. I think they're saying that it is not unheard of that preschool boys sometimes push, it's wrong, and they need to be disciplined. However, this doesn't mean they're going to end up juvenile deliquents. As adults, we can discipline without yelling loudly at children, especially a stranger. Is it okay for an adult to tell a child to stop doing something wrong? Yes. Is it okay for an adult to yell, in a threatening manner, at a preschooler? No. If the teacher yelled loudly at the child, everyone would be up in arms.

Exactly. Kids need parents to intervene when they're misbehaving, but there are positive ways to intervene and negative ways. Yelling at a 5-year-old is appalling, whether he's your own kid or someone else's. I could see a mom losing her cool if this had been an ongoing problem, but there was no attempt made to get the teacher involved, talk to the kid, or talk to the kid's parent (all of which would have been better than yelling at him.)

 

[happygirl]

Why is it that the term "Kids will be kids" when used in these types circumstances are usually stated by the trouble makers parents? This is the attitude of the bully's parents in my cul de sac for sure. It is NOT my attitude, and should not be Carte Blanche for kids to pick on others and behave badly towards them. If I was the parent in the OP's situation I would have done the same thing, hopefully not screaming, but my voice would most definitely be different than my normal speaking voice.

It really surprises me with all the post here stating they would be very upset with the parent correcting the pushing boy. I must be crazy, because I would be upset with my child who was doing the pushing.

I can assure you that my kids aren't bullies. I wouldn't tolerate them to be. I just don't want anyone yellling or scream at my kids. That isn't how we deal with things. I'm sorry you feel like yelling is how you should deal with a small kid

 

[Wishing on a star]

Again though this is PRE START TIME so the teachers are not there in a supervisory role. If your sister wants to make sure that he's safe on the playground during this time SHE should stay with him. My son's teacher is there before school "officially starts" but I wouldn't think of dumping him on her early just because she's there. Sorry but I think the safest thing is for your sister to either skip this time or stay and watch.

Sorry Java, but you couldn't be more wrong.
That school would be MAJORLY liable, and would be shut down immediately by any State policies if they allowed parents to drop 3 year old children off and leave them, unsupervised.

Once the parent drops the child off and signs them in, the preschool program is absolutely 100% responsible.

OP, I am sorry that your nephew got shoved... but, as others have said, I am not sure that this crosses the line into bullying. This type of thing goes on between boys in this age group, and I suspect it has been since the dawn of time. A group of children like this is sometimes controlled chaos.

Perhaps the story has been exaggerated!

It sounds like the staff did react appropriately once they became aware of the situation.

 

[java]

Sorry Java, but you couldn't be more wrong.
That school would be MAJORLY liable, and would be shut down immediately by any State policies if they allowed parents to drop 3 year old children off and leave them, unsupervised.

Once the parent drops the child off and signs them in, the preschool program is absolutely 100% responsible.

I must have missed where she "signed him in"
At our preschool the school is not liable until the start of the school day. It is also a daycare center- so there are teachers there earlier than when my son goes in. I wouldn't ever assume that if I left him prior to his start time that they were responsible unless there was a written policy on it.

I understand our state law. Perhaps yours is different. But I'm in NJ where the op is from. don't know if that's where her sister is. So before you say how wrong I am maybe you should look into NJ law.

 

[SnowWhite607]

I want the teachers to deal with it. I don't some other kids mom yelling at my child. So you think it's okay for a grown adult woman to yell at a small child

Perhaps instead of focusing your anger toward the adult who yelled at a child, some anger should be focused at the parent who never thaught their child that putting their hands on another child is not acceptable!

And before anyone asks, YES I have seen 3 year olds play. I am a kindergarten teacher and my school has ages 1 - 6 so I know boys can be rought BUT they can also be taught to play nicely and keep their hands to themselves.

My DD was recently at a dance recital and another girl shoved her down (she had shoved her before and gotten fussed at by the dance teacher) and my DD fell into a piece of chocolate cake IN HER DANCE COSTUME before she went on stage! Luckily the backstage helper fixed and pinned and switched the costume around so it wasnt noticeable on stage. When I found out, I went up to the girl and told her that my DD said she had pushed her and she had BETTER NOT put her hands on her again.

And if her mama didnt like it, then maybe she should teach her little girl some better manners!

 

[SnowWhite607]

Again though this is PRE START TIME so the teachers are not there in a supervisory role. If your sister wants to make sure that he's safe on the playground during this time SHE should stay with him. My son's teacher is there before school "officially starts" but I wouldn't think of dumping him on her early just because she's there. Sorry but I think the safest thing is for your sister to either skip this time or stay and watch.

And most teachers have duty before start time so that IS their actual job to supervise the children. If school "officially starts" at 9am, teachers may have to start duty at 830.

 

[happygirl]

Perhaps instead of focusing your anger toward the adult who yelled at a child, some anger should be focused at the parent who never thaught their child that putting their hands on another child is not acceptable!

And before anyone asks, YES I have seen 3 year olds play. I am a kindergarten teacher and my school has ages 1 - 6 so I know boys can be rought BUT they can also be taught to play nicely and keep their hands to themselves.

My DD was recently at a dance recital and another girl shoved her down (she had shoved her before and gotten fussed at by the dance teacher) and my DD fell into a piece of chocolate cake IN HER DANCE COSTUME before she went on stage! Luckily the backstage helper fixed and pinned and switched the costume around so it wasnt noticeable on stage. When I found out, I went up to the girl and told her that my DD said she had pushed her and she had BETTER NOT put her hands on her again.

And if her mama didnt like it, then maybe she should teach her little girl some better manners!

I can't believe how many people thinks it okay for a adult to yell at a small child I think they boy need to be dealt with but by teachers not a complete stranger. How does a stranger know this kid doesn't have issues with yelling and that won't set him off? Discpline needs to be done by a adult who know the kid,

I can't believe you are a teacher and approve yelling at a child? I wonder how your school would react to that

 

[shellybaxter]

She didn't do anything wrong, and she had every right to reprimand a child that hurt her own child. Don't you think it's a mother's right to defend her own child? Now, if she touched the child, she'd be in a heap of trouble because she'd be wrong, but I think she did the right thing by scaring the poop out of the bully

ETA: The bully was 5...clearly old enough to know how NOT to behave.

No she didn't - not in a preschool. The teacher should have dealt with the situation and if a teacher didn't see it your sister should have brought it to her attention. Preschools are regulated and the licensee is responcible for how the children are handled. Would you expect a preschool teacher or assistant to talk that way to a child. It is totally unacceptable to yell like that.

I am the director of an accreditated (high quality standards) preschool and if one of the parents behaved that way I would have a chat with them about appropriate behavior. I've had conversations like this many times. I do it in a respectful and inclusive way - sometimes parents don't like what I have to say - but they usually learn from their behavior.

As for preschool bullying. We don't use timeout until its so bad we have no other choice. We start by explaining why the action is wrong and talking with the bully about how they are making their friends feel. Children are just little people with more plyable minds. Respectful discussion is the best first step for problem behaviors.

 

[happygirl]

No she didn't - not in a preschool. The teacher should have dealt with the situation and if a teacher didn't see it your sister should have brought it to her attention. Preschools are regulated and the licensee is responcible for how the children are handled. Would you expect a preschool teacher or assistant to talk that way to a child. It is totally unacceptable to yell like that.

I am the director of an accreditated (high quality standards) preschool and if one of the parents behaved that way I would have a chat with them about appropriate behavior. I've had conversations like this many times. I do it in a respectful and inclusive way - sometimes parents don't like what I have to say - but they usually learn from their behavior.

As for preschool bullying. We don't use timeout until its so bad we have no other choice. We start by explaining why the action is wrong and talking with the bully about how they are making their friends feel. Children are just little people with more plyable minds. Respectful discussion is the best first step for problem behaviors.

That what my childcare does is TALKING to the child making them aware of there actions affect them and there friends. Exmaple a child hits another child the child hits says When you hit me that hurts me and makes me feel sad. It really works

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I'm getting a kick out of the people who are talking about how this kid must never have been taught to pay nice etc, etc. Little kids (and yes, I consider 5 little) do things all the time they are not supposed to- even when they have been taught not to!

If you look at brain development, the part of the brain that controls impulses isn't developed yet. I have never met a child that could be told something once and go about their merry way. I have never met a child that did not shove/hit/kick at some point in their young life, and yes, most were told that doing so was wrong.

I used to be a sub for a preschool so I got to see all the ages. This is incredibly common behavior at this age. The kids just don't have the capabilities of thinking through their actions. They also do not have a good "theory of mind"- they aren't able to look at another person's perspective easily. They want the toy so they take it. That's why the teachers need to handle problems like these- pull them aside and ask how they would feel if it happened to them, etc. etc. Our prechool would never have tolerated another mother yelling at a child until he nearly wet his pants as described by the OP. The teacher was right there and could have easily handled it if alerted. If the teacher was not around I could understand talking to the child, but not scaring them half to death!

 

[SnowWhite607]

I can't believe how many people thinks it okay for a adult to yell at a small child I think they boy need to be dealt with but by teachers not a complete stranger. How does a stranger know this kid doesn't have issues with yelling and that won't set him off? Discpline needs to be done by a adult who know the kid,

I can't believe you are a teacher and approve yelling at a child? I wonder how your school would react to that

Please show me in my above post where I said it was okay to yell at a child or that I, myself had yelled at a child. Perhaps we are reading 2 different posts??

I said I TOLD the girl not to put her hands on my child, not yelled or screamed at her. You have no way of knowing what tone or volume I used.

I also said SOME of the anger should be focused on the bully's parents. I dont ever remember saying that I approved of yelling at a small child. But thank you for making assumptions and then insulting my teaching skills. Nice.

 

[happygirl]

Please show me in my above post where I said it was okay to yell at a child or that I, myself had yelled at a child. Perhaps we are reading 2 different posts??

I said I TOLD the girl not to put her hands on my child, not yelled or screamed at her. You have no way of knowing what tone or volume I used.

I also said SOME of the anger should be focused on the bully's parents. I dont ever remember saying that I approved of yelling at a small child. But thank you for making assumptions and then insulting my teaching skills. Nice.

Now you are making assumptions I went up to the girl and told her that my DD said she had pushed her and she had BETTER NOT put her hands on her again.
that statement makes me think you are okay with telling other people kids what they can't and can't do. I'm lol if you think people believe when you were calm about telling a child this. I bet you were outraged I'd think you would have to be to threaten a child.

 

[SnowWhite607]

Why is it that the term "Kids will be kids" when used in these types circumstances are usually stated by the trouble makers parents? This is the attitude of the bully's parents in my cul de sac for sure. It is NOT my attitude, and should not be Carte Blanche for kids to pick on others and behave badly towards them. If I was the parent in the OP's situation I would have done the same thing, hopefully not screaming, but my voice would most definitely be different than my normal speaking voice.

It really surprises me with all the post here stating they would be very upset with the parent correcting the pushing boy. I must be crazy, because I would be upset with my child who was doing the pushing.

My thoughts exactly. Thats not an excuse, people! Kind of like "oh thats just the way they are." Well thats not an excuse for bad behavior, I dont care how "they" are.

I must be the luckiest teacher on the planet then. I have taught kindergarten for 3 years and NEVER have I had a problem with pushing, shoving, etc with my boys after I told them in no uncertain terms that they were to always keep their hands and other appendages to themselves!

 

[Disney Doll]

I want the teachers to deal with it. I don't some other kids mom yelling at my child. So you think it's okay for a grown adult woman to yell at a small child

Yep. perfectly fine. especially when the gorwn adult woman was the one who witnessed what the child did.

I can see it now...upset parent saying to teacher "Well, did you see my sweet angel Johnny push that other child off the slide? No? Well,then why did you yell at him?"

 

[happygirl]

Yep. perfectly fine. especially when the gorwn adult woman was the one who witnessed what the child did.

I can see it now...upset parent saying to teacher "Well, did you see my sweet angel Johnny push that other child off the slide? No? Well,then why did you yell at him?"

That fine let the adult tell the teacher what happend. That is the teacher job not a stranger job to discpline. How do yo know that child isn't a special needs student who has a IEP how he needs to be dealt with in a special way.

 

[Disney Doll]

I can't believe how many people thinks it okay for a adult to yell at a small child I think they boy need to be dealt with but by teachers not a complete stranger. How does a stranger know this kid doesn't have issues with yelling and that won't set him off? Discpline needs to be done by a adult who know the kid,

I can't believe you are a teacher and approve yelling at a child? I wonder how your school would react to that

And truthfully, I can't believe that you think it's acceptable for a larger child to be allowed to push a smaller child repeatedly and have the smaller child's mother stand there and watch or run and get the teacher.

I am glad you don't yell at your children. Presumably, your children are well-behaved and don't require yelling at. Every child is not yours.

I hardly doubt this 5 year old will be scarred for life because someone's mom yelled at him, but it will probably make him think twice befor ehe pushes that kid again.

Actions...consequences...and the quicker the consequences afetr an action, the better a 5 year old will understand the correlation.

 

[SnowWhite607]

Now you are making assumptions I went up to the girl and told her that my DD said she had pushed her and she had BETTER NOT put her hands on her again.
that statement makes me think you are okay with telling other people kids what they can't and can't do. I'm lol if you think people believe when you were calm about telling a child this. I bet you were outraged I'd think you would have to be to threaten a child.

What am I making asumptions about? You said "I cant believe you are a teacher since you approve of yelling at a child." To me, that means that you think that I think its okay to yell at a child. Dont have to go too far to assume anything in that statement. I dont think I was assuming, just reading.

Personally I dont care what you believe about me and how I told the bully anything. This was not the first time the girl had put her hands on my child and the teacher didnt really do anything. Rather than do nothing, I chose to stand up for my child. You werent there and it wasnt your child so believe what you want.

Do I think its okay to tell other people's kids what they can and can't do?? When it comes to my child and her safety......ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY DEFINITELY YES. Bad things may happen in life, but my kid is always gonna feel safe in knowing that I have her back.

 

[happygirl]

And truthfully, I can't believe that you think it's acceptable for a larger child to be allowed to push a smaller child repeatedly and have the smaller child's mother stand there and watch or run and get the teacher.

I am glad you don't yell at your children. Presumably, your children are well-behaved and don't require yelling at. Every child is not yours.

I hardly doubt this 5 year old will be scarred for life because someone's mom yelled at him, but it will probably make him think twice befor ehe pushes that kid again.

Actions...consequences...and the quicker the consequences afetr an action, the better a 5 year old will understand the correlation.

My kids aren't perfect by any means LOL. I have found what works best for my kids which is discussing there actions and how they affect others. I just don't see how yelling at a child is going to help anyone

 

[SnowWhite607]

That fine let the adult tell the teacher what happend. That is the teacher job not a stranger job to discpline. How do yo know that child isn't a special needs student who has a IEP how he needs to be dealt with in a special way.