Powered wheelchair use restrictions

[RaySharpton]

Update. Sorry for being away from this for so long. Had other commitments, had to find a way to get to a decision-maker and had to decide on the best approach. It resulted in a very productive conversation with the head of Disability Services today. What I learned was that this is not a shift to exclude powered wheelchairs like the one my wife uses.
There are ECV turning radius issues. And issues with some custom powered devices. Having a conversation with the right person gets thoughtful and cogent responses.

Learned something interesting about Flights of Passage. They designed a custom manual chair (with a special notch) that can take the guest directly onto and off of the ride device. It has a lift capability to match seat to ride device height. There is also a special room for the guest to transfer in private from their chair to this one or a regular manual chair if desired.

No worries, JimC. I appreciate your report.

 

[kaytieeldr]

And what exactly is the issue with "custom powered devices"?

Maybe they mean customized?

 

[SueM in MN]

I can shed some light on the ‘custom power devices’ from my experience with wheelchairs and talking with the Director of Disability Services multiple times.
Custom power wheelchairs is a class of power wheelchairs that are fitted to the person. There are also non-custom power wheelchairs - many of the folding ones are non-custom. They are standard sizes and the user might be able to make a few changes, but basically very standard.

There are a couple of main companies in the US that make custom power wheelchairs.
Permobil, Invacare, Quickie, Quantum (Pride Mobility’s custom brand) and Jazzy (Pride’s non-custom power wheelchair brand that is the power wheelchair equivalent of an ECV. Hoverround would be similar).
The pictures are in that order and look pretty much the same. They are custom because they are made to measure (seat width/length, back width/height, choice of armrests, footrests, type of seating, etc.) and have features to fit the user.

Any of those fit the size listed for wheelchairs on the Disney website and wouldn’t have a problem in lines or most wheelchair accessible ride cars.

 

[SueM in MN]

Then, there are some that may be too wide, too long, too heavy, too something else or are self balancing in use, but not when not being driven. The chief issues are size and weight.
The first picture is a custom wheelchair that would not be an issue except when it’s reclined. It will be too long when in recline to fit in lines and turn or get into the wheelchair spaces/ride cars.
The third one is a standard bariatric wheelchair, which could be too wide to fit in many lines and need more turning space than the line provides. Total weight for most of the wheelchair accessible ride vehicles is 700 pounds, so occupied, it may be too heavy.
The last one (with green trim) is small but only has 2 wheels and may not be stable for an accessible ride vehicle.
.

 

[JimC]

Maybe they mean customized?

Correct

 

[mamabunny]

Thank you @kaytieeldr, @SueM in MN and @JimC - that clears up *that* confusion for me.

I guess I'm still a bit shocked that (at the time that Pandora was built) Disney was well acquainted with not only the ADA, but (in general) how and what kind of mobility devices they could expect their Guests to be using to access the ride(s) in Pandora - or any part of the WDW Resort. And yet... it seems like there was some poor planning in relation to folks who have to use mobility devices in general when it came to those rides - and especially the show buildings/queues.

I *do* understand that some of the types of mobility devices that @SueM in MN posted pictures of in the second group, might be difficult to handle in some queues or loading/unloading areas. But just like there could be (and should be) "test fit" dummy ride seats outside each ride, there could be a mat on the ground - and if your mobility device doesn't fit within the mat for that ride - for any reason - then you will have to transfer to a manual chair to enter the queue. Any other mobility device goes on in that fits within the boundaries of the mat. That could easily be implemented at all rides across the Parks. There are already "fit boxes" on the ground at bus stops, so it would not be unprecedented.

Oh well... Again - thanks, @JimC for updating us. I do appreciate it!

 

[SueM in MN]

Thank you @kaytieeldr, @SueM in MN and @JimC - that clears up *that* confusion for me.

I guess I'm still a bit shocked that (at the time that Pandora was built) Disney was well acquainted with not only the ADA, but (in general) how and what kind of mobility devices they could expect their Guests to be using to access the ride(s) in Pandora - or any part of the WDW Resort. And yet... it seems like there was some poor planning in relation to folks who have to use mobility devices in general when it came to those rides - and especially the show buildings/queues.

I *do* understand that some of the types of mobility devices that @SueM in MN posted pictures of in the second group, might be difficult to handle in some queues or loading/unloading areas. But just like there could be (and should be) "test fit" dummy ride seats outside each ride, there could be a mat on the ground - and if your mobility device doesn't fit within the mat for that ride - for any reason - then you will have to transfer to a manual chair to enter the queue. Any other mobility device goes on in that fits within the boundaries of the mat. That could easily be implemented at all rides across the Parks. There are already "fit boxes" on the ground at bus stops, so it would not be unprecedented.

Oh well... Again - thanks, @JimC for updating us. I do appreciate it!

The devices in my first post with pictures do all fit the size guidelines that Disney has posted on their website. They would fit in Disney transportation, in lines, attractions and accessible ride vehicles.
The lines and loading areas for the Pandora attractions meet what is in the ADA design specs for amusement attractions. It would be nice if some of the queue areas of Flights of Passage were not so steep, but they do meet the guidelines.
Heavier than 700 pounds total weight may be an issue for using some ride vehicles, but not the queue.

The devices in the second post with pictures are pretty much all outside of the size posted on the website (which is also the sizes used in ADA compliance). Those may be allowed into the parks, but with no expectation that they will fit in any queues/attractions.

 

[cobright]

Background - my wife has a power assisted wheelchair (manual wheelchair with powered wheels added - an Invacare ProSpin X4 folding ultra light weight wheelchair with the Alber E-fix Basic E25 drive wheels). She has been using that chair in ride queues for the year and a half she has had it. It provides her with mobility independence.

Issue - June 15th we were at Pirates and had no problem using the wheelchair up to the load zone as usual. Two days later we were told at front of Pirates queue that no motorized wheelchairs are permitted and she had to transfer to one of their manual chairs. We inquired in writing to DVC member satisfaction (we are DVC owners) and was told that for safety concerns they were being banned from that ride and maybe additional rides. This afternoon it happened at Flights of Passage. This time it happened at the end of the queue. They wanted to treat her wheelchair like an ECV.

I do not understand the rationale for this policy. Her wheelchair is standard size, has the mobility to turn 360 degrees without moving, and is accepted by the airlines who have the strictest rules governing power chairs. So just what is the issue? This is so odd as our experience over many years of Disney trips that they are very accommodating to disability challenges.

The ADA is unambiguous in this.
https://www.ada.gov/opdmd.htm"Covered entities must allow people with disabilities who use manual or power wheelchairs or scooters, and manually-powered mobility aids such as walkers, crutches, and canes, into all areas where members of the public are allowed to go."

A wheelchair is, "a manually-operated or power-driven device designed primarily for use by an individual with a mobility disability for the main purpose of indoor or of both indoor and outdoor locomotion."

More than that, types of mobility devices may not be excluded by blanket decree and must be accommodated unless their use poses a significant safety risk. Where that is the case, they may only be restricted to the extent that doing so alleviates that risk. So segways in the park are dangerous and disney won that case. But an ultra quiet near zero emissions liquid fuel engine powered chair cannot be prevented from the open air areas.

If your wife's chair has a footprint similar to the manual chair offered by the cm I would revisit the matter with Disney in the context of your next step being a formal ADA complaint.

 

[cobright]

Disney has to provide ADA accommodations. They don't have to provide the accommodations we want.

Yes, well... they don't get to just come up with a new rule that breaks the 2010 revised ada standards either; no matter how evenly they enforce it.

The rule is quite clear. A disabled person in a wheelchair, even a powered chair, must be allowed access anywhere a non disabled person is allowed. There must be equal access. As anyone who has both traveled somewhere in their motorized mobility device and have been pushed by someone else, they are not equal.

Exceptions are possible but only for significant safety concerns and the burden of proof is on the business.

I would (and occasionally have) push back on this.

 

[BroganMc]

I just sent them an email about this. I was researching going to Universal Studios in Orlando this September and I read where the electric wheelchairs are restricted in so many of their queues to their attraction rides. I hope WDW doesn't head in that same direction.

Universal doesn't restrict power wheelchairs from their queues at all rides except for E.T. ECVs are banned from all queues because there isn't enough room for them and they maneuver like trucks. Wheelchairs can manage all the queues and are welcome at Universal. They are banned at E.T. only because there is absolutely no space to store them and a manual wheelchair is loaded on the ride vehicle.

But Universal TMs are absolute darlings about accommodating the disabled. If you use an ECV like a wheelchair and cannot walk/stand a long time, simply ask a TM for an accommodation. Most likely they will direct you to another entry and greatly shorten your walk.

I've found Universal staff to be much more accommodating to the disabled than Disney staff over the last 5-7 years. I'm not sure why.

 

[BroganMc]

The ADA is unambiguous in this.
https://www.ada.gov/opdmd.htm"Covered entities must allow people with disabilities who use manual or power wheelchairs or scooters, and manually-powered mobility aids such as walkers, crutches, and canes, into all areas where members of the public are allowed to go."

A wheelchair is, "a manually-operated or power-driven device designed primarily for use by an individual with a mobility disability for the main purpose of indoor or of both indoor and outdoor locomotion."

More than that, types of mobility devices may not be excluded by blanket decree and must be accommodated unless their use poses a significant safety risk. Where that is the case, they may only be restricted to the extent that doing so alleviates that risk. So segways in the park are dangerous and disney won that case. But an ultra quiet near zero emissions liquid fuel engine powered chair cannot be prevented from the open air areas.

If your wife's chair has a footprint similar to the manual chair offered by the cm I would revisit the matter with Disney in the context of your next step being a formal ADA complaint.

It's ironic. When I went to the Halloween party on 10/6 I as prepared to transfer out of my powerchair to a manual (I've been told to do that every time for the last decade). They told me if my chair could be switched to manual and my family pushed me the entire way in, I could take my chair. I did. My nephew pushed me and my chair was waiting for me at the exit. (Why I could drive myself to the boat and just switched it to manual at the boat, IDK. That would have been more efficient. I guess they don't trust power wheelchair drivers to drive without banging into walls. As if we don't have plenty of experience and incentive avoiding collisions. ::rolls eyes::

Like someone said, the people making up these rules on mobility devices often do not use them. They are clueless.

 

[SueM in MN]

These pictures are from Imagination a few days ago.
I don’t know this person and was honestly surprised that his wheelchair fit because that wheelchair car is a very tight fit. His driving skill was very impressive - and he was using a head array to drive, which is not easy, so he obviously well experienced.
We have never brought our daughter’s power wheelchair to WDW. We are worried about air travel and her stamina to drive it at the parks.
I am not concerned about using a power wheelchair in lines/attractions because we see multiple power wheelchairs in lines and ride cars on each trip (we go twice a year and each trip is 14-17 days).
I think the OPs situation was result of a misunderstanding.

Sorry for the sideways picture - it won’t post right side up. It was just to show size