Post all SW questions concerns, etc. here...

[Elle23]

We flew home on SW today to DFW. It wasn’t planned…American canceled our flight last night. We had decided to branch out to American after all of the SW changes and that didn’t go too well.

I booked our SW flights yesterday around 4pm for a 6am flight this morning. We booked seats 12a and 12b. We somehow ended up in boarding group 3 even though I booked and checked in so late.

There was plenty of bin space when we got on. We did notice some people who were sitting further back putting their luggage in overhead bins towards the front of the plane. It seemed odd and I had never seen people doing that before. I don’t think there were any issues with bin space and it was a full flight.

Boarding seemed slow compared to the old ways (I was SW faithful for over 10 years so experienced a lot of the old ways), but it wasn’t terrible, honestly. Or maybe I was just glad to finally be heading home after getting dumped by American. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side, it turns out.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

We flew home on SW today to DFW. It wasn’t planned…American canceled our flight last night. We had decided to branch out to American after all of the SW changes and that didn’t go too well.

I booked our SW flights yesterday around 4pm for a 6am flight this morning. We booked seats 12a and 12b. We somehow ended up in boarding group 3 even though I booked and checked in so late.

There was plenty of bin space when we got on. We did notice some people who were sitting further back putting their luggage in overhead bins towards the front of the plane. It seemed odd and I had never seen people doing that before. I don’t think there were any issues with bin space and it was a full flight.

Boarding seemed slow compared to the old ways (I was SW faithful for over 10 years so experienced a lot of the old ways), but it wasn’t terrible, honestly. Or maybe I was just glad to finally be heading home after getting dumped by American. The grass isn’t always greener on the other side, it turns out.

There were so many bad stories across so many different outlets that I think you got lucky. But as far as bin space the further back in the plane you go now the higher likelihood you will have space this was the case before but it was that people who boarded earlier on could have more choice and spread out more and head towards the back immediately if they wanted as much potential overhead bin space as possible, however keep in mind you were boarding in Group 3, there are still groups 4-8 after that. There may or may not be many people left in later boarding groups but yeah.

That said AA is not an airline I would fly if I had a choice anyhow, nor United. AA has long had very bad customer service and United not much better.

I am glad you were able to have a good flight.

 

[Cruzin’Sisters]

saw this on another forum, has anyone done this with a 3-31 expiring credit that is transferable to another person to extend the credit

However, there is a way around this. You can buy a WN gift card (physical or online) and apply it along with your credit to any dummy WN ticket in Choice Preferred that is slightly higher in price than your credit value (so the gift card covers at least some tiny portion of it), then cancel the ticket. Did that on one of my trips and it removed the expiration date for all of my credit (which was originally used on a Basic fare), plus made it transferable (because of Choice Preferred).

How long did you wait to cancel the ticket? A few days or within 24 hours? Does it matter?? Was going to give it a try as I just got the SW Giftcard yesterday!

 

[Pinnochio]

I think that I have found a bit of irony in the assigned seating situation. I'm looking at my flight home from Orlando in March when a big block of standard seats in the rows behind the exit row have been taken. That left a whole lot of empty preferred seats in the front of the plane. Those seats will go to the people who bought Basic fares if the preferred seats don't get picked up before the flight.

I did that for this April....booked basic then paid for preferred seats in row 6....

 

[scrappinginontario]

Is it just me or, have people's travel habits changed? And, not for the better I feel.

1. Why do people choose to put their carry-on at the front when they're sitting further back? Just take it with you folks and it will avoid all this.

2. For years it was customary to disembark from the front to the back. You waited in your seats until people a couple of rows ahead of you were disembarking then stand, get your stuff and leave once the row in front of you left. Now it seems the moment the seatbelt sign goes off people from the rear of the plane are filling the aisles and walking towards the front and many others join them too.

Is it just me or have others noticed these changes?

 

[PACVII]

I stand as soon as he seatbelt light goes off but I don’t step into the aisle. I stand in front of my seat just to stretch my legs as I’m over 6’. I also dont use the overhead bins. I have my bag at my feet. Keep it simple (you know the rest). Over the years I watch people over complicate the simplest of tasks. Just as SW is doing here. at this point after 20 years just not so loyal to SW anymore. It use to be simple and easy with a basic fare I got basic service. Just need a flight and a free bag. It’s over complicated now. SW thinks it’s one of the big carriers now but they forgot where they came from as they are not competing with AA or Delta they are still a discount carrier with investors pushing to nickel and dime you. People complaint with the big guys was lack of feel, no customer service. Sadly SW is now taking that direction to pursue the $. They will find out when people shop. I will not just book without looking anymore. I have no reason. I can get the same from anyone now as no one stands out with free bags and basic fares. I’m sure over time someone may try to fill that gap but really SW had the monopoly and gave it up thinking it can compete and make more for investors when they should have been satisfied just making a profit. Over time I’m sure they will report losses and not enjoy steady year over year of a profit as they did. I’m sure the highs will hopefully outpace the lows. If not they will be bought out. Time will tell.

 

[focusondisney]

they are still a discount carrier

Nothing discount about the prices I’m seeing.

Edit to add, I stand up pretty quickly after the seat belt sign goes off. But I’m 5’2. I fit under the overhead bins & can stand up right in front of my seat.

 

[SkyGuy]

That would be lovely!

If you wouldn't mind and you remember can you also glance around at the overhead bin space when you board/as boarding happens. I'm just interested to see if we find a pattern over time of bin space availability

I flew today from STL to DEN then DEN to TUS. I had foot surgery in November and am using a cane. I asked about preboarding and was told you no longer need to get a preboard designated boarding pass. They will still do preboard first then priority and active military. I was the only preboarder in STL; I’m slow, so I didn’t want to be mixed in with priority. The flight was 90% full, but I don’t think anyone had to gate check. I didn’t notice anyone putting their bag in a bin up front (I was in row 4) and then walk to the back. It went very smoothly. Second flight I asked about preboarding because just declaring to the gate agent I was preboarding didn’t sound right to me. The counter agent told me they don’t offer preboard anymore, and I should just board with my group. I told her I just did it the previous flight and she emphasized they don’t do that. I asked the gate agent once he showed up, and he said they absolutely offer preboard, so there are still hiccups. There were 14 preboarders - 5 wheelchairs and companions, me, and a group of three with a service dog. They wouldn’t allow boarding until 9 people checked bags. We had an old plane where the bags wouldn’t fit on their sides, and it took quite a while to board and everyone to find a space. Again, I didn’t notice people placing bags in the front and then continue to the back. All-in-all, it was fine and relatively smooth.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I flew today from STL to DEN then DEN to TUS. I had foot surgery in November and am using a cane. I asked about preboarding and was told you no longer need to get a preboard designated boarding pass. They will still do preboard first then priority and active military. I was the only preboarder in STL; I’m slow, so I didn’t want to be mixed in with priority. The flight was 90% full, but I don’t think anyone had to gate check. I didn’t notice anyone putting their bag in a bin up front (I was in row 4) and then walk to the back. It went very smoothly. Second flight I asked about preboarding because just declaring to the gate agent I was preboarding didn’t sound right to me. The counter agent told me they don’t offer preboard anymore, and I should just board with my group. I told her I just did it the previous flight and she emphasized they don’t do that. I asked the gate agent once he showed up, and he said they absolutely offer preboard, so there are still hiccups. There were 14 preboarders - 5 wheelchairs and companions, me, and a group of three with a service dog. They wouldn’t allow boarding until 9 people checked bags. We had an old plane where the bags wouldn’t fit on their sides, and it took quite a while to board and everyone to find a space. Again, I didn’t notice people placing bags in the front and then continue to the back. All-in-all, it was fine and relatively smooth.

Thank you for coming back and relaying your experience. From a lot of comments I'm seeing the gate agents and FAs don't seem to have had as much information given to them as they should have given how SWA has known about this for quite a while now.

For my husband's flight they didn't even announce anything about boarding, lining up to board, etc. They just put the Group 1 and Group 2 on the screen and let everyone figure it out from there.

Glad you had some good flights especially with the recent enough surgery. Hopefully the pre-boarding, if you still need it on a subsequent flight, goes better.

 

[Tink3815]

I have not tried this yet. Wanted to know if anyone here has done it and did it work to extend the credit. I don't care if it gives me only 12 months.

 

[leebee]

Is it just me or, have people's travel habits changed? And, not for the better I feel.

1. Why do people choose to put their carry-on at the front when they're sitting further back? Just take it with you folks and it will avoid all this.

2. For years it was customary to disembark from the front to the back. You waited in your seats until people a couple of rows ahead of you were disembarking then stand, get your stuff and leave once the row in front of you left. Now it seems the moment the seatbelt sign goes off people from the rear of the plane are filling the aisles and walking towards the front and many others join them too.

Is it just me or have others noticed these changes?

To answer your questions (IMO, of course):
1. I think people who are sitting in the back worry that there won't be any overhead space left once they get back there and they'll be forced to gate-check their bags, so they take the first available overhead space they see.
2. I've noticed lately that airlines are willing to book routes with less than an hour of connection time. If I have 50 minutes to change planes at BWI and boarding for that connection starts 20 minutes before flight time, I effectively have a half hour to get off the first plane (assuming it landed on time, then taxied directly to the gate), navigate the terminals/gates, use the bathroom, maybe get something to eat or drink. I think sometimes people have scheduled themselves too tightly and are in a panic-induced rush. I'd rather have a 3 hour layover than 50 minutes. Travel is stressful enough; why intentionally add to it?

 

[scrappinginontario]

I stand as soon as he seatbelt light goes off but I don’t step into the aisle. I stand in front of my seat just to stretch my legs as I’m over 6’. I also dont use the overhead bins. I have my bag at my feet. Keep it simple (you know the rest). Over the years I watch people over complicate the simplest of tasks. Just as SW is doing here. at this point after 20 years just not so loyal to SW anymore. It use to be simple and easy with a basic fare I got basic service. Just need a flight and a free bag. It’s over complicated now. SW thinks it’s one of the big carriers now but they forgot where they came from as they are not competing with AA or Delta they are still a discount carrier with investors pushing to nickel and dime you. People complaint with the big guys was lack of feel, no customer service. Sadly SW is now taking that direction to pursue the $. They will find out when people shop. I will not just book without looking anymore. I have no reason. I can get the same from anyone now as no one stands out with free bags and basic fares. I’m sure over time someone may try to fill that gap but really SW had the monopoly and gave it up thinking it can compete and make more for investors when they should have been satisfied just making a profit. Over time I’m sure they will report losses and not enjoy steady year over year of a profit as they did. I’m sure the highs will hopefully outpace the lows. If not they will be bought out. Time will tell.

I am like you. After being loyal to SW for more than 15 years we have switched airlines. What made SW worth a longer commute to the airport, is no longer offered. We are Canadian and previously drove past our local airport and went across the border to fly with SW. Last month we flew with Porter and absolutely loved it! Price was competitive with SW so no need to drive further.

After being a loyal SW passenger for years (and helping many, many other people book SW flights), we've moved on. We have enough credits and RR points for a return flight but I'm honestly not sure we'll even do that. Time will tell but the changes SW has made has caused us to look elsewhere, and we've been pleasantly surprised with what we've found!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Nothing discount about the prices I’m seeing.

Edit to add, I stand up pretty quickly after the seat belt sign goes off. But I’m 5’2. I fit under the overhead bins & can stand up right in front of my seat.

I'm a bit over 5' 3" and do the same when the plane allows for it. The seats aren't exactly comfortable and I can normally though not always fit underneath the overhead bin spot without ducking much or at all. I don't always do it if someone is next to me (I'm always in the middle in that case) if I feel like I would encroach on their space.

My very tall husband on the other hand stays seated and is almost always on the aisle. It's really because other people get into the aisle immediately and he's then too tall and would also then need to be in the aisle. When we travel together we normally have me take his personal item (a backpack) and he then gets our carryons from the overhead bin. It's faster that way and gets us out of people's way until we get into the terminal itself where I hand off his backpack and he hands me my carry on.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

2. For years it was customary to disembark from the front to the back. You waited in your seats until people a couple of rows ahead of you were disembarking then stand, get your stuff and leave once the row in front of you left. Now it seems the moment the seatbelt sign goes off people from the rear of the plane are filling the aisles and walking towards the front and many others join them too.

I've seen it a bit more in the last couple of years. I can't really excuse it by saying it's always tight connections although I'm sure that does occur. Normally when someone has that they are polite enough to explain that saying something like "I've got a tight connection" or something to that effect. But I've seen some very pushy and oblivious to those around them people pushing their way up the aisle that can't reasonably used that way.

But I think it's been a more normal thing for a long while that people get up into the aisle. The difference in recent years at least from what I've seen seems to be it's too many people from the aisle seat doing it (there's not enough room for both sides of the plane's aisle passenger to both get up).

Another observation that may sound weird to say but a thing I've seen as a pattern that lengthens the time to get off the plane is that people stay seated for too long. It's not that they are taking too long to get their item from under their seat but that they stay seated too long and have to shuffle from the window or middle to then get into the aisle to them get their item from the overhead bin. Meanwhile the rest of the plane would really like to get off of it and are ready to do so and this person is just basically taking their sweet time to do so, not that they are doing it from an entitled way but just that they have no sense of urgency and aren't thinking of people behind them.

So I think there's kinda both sides. Yes people are in a rush, sometimes very rudely, to get off the plane but then others don't consider there is a point where you do need to prepare to get off the plane and you may think you're being the more patient passenger by waiting and you could end up being the one who holds everyone else up.

 

[BlueGreen5]

I stand as soon as he seatbelt light goes off but I don’t step into the aisle. I stand in front of my seat just to stretch my legs as I’m over 6’. I also dont use the overhead bins. I have my bag at my feet. Keep it simple (you know the rest). Over the years I watch people over complicate the simplest of tasks. Just as SW is doing here. at this point after 20 years just not so loyal to SW anymore. It use to be simple and easy with a basic fare I got basic service. Just need a flight and a free bag. It’s over complicated now. SW thinks it’s one of the big carriers now but they forgot where they came from as they are not competing with AA or Delta they are still a discount carrier with investors pushing to nickel and dime you. People complaint with the big guys was lack of feel, no customer service. Sadly SW is now taking that direction to pursue the $. They will find out when people shop. I will not just book without looking anymore. I have no reason. I can get the same from anyone now as no one stands out with free bags and basic fares. I’m sure over time someone may try to fill that gap but really SW had the monopoly and gave it up thinking it can compete and make more for investors when they should have been satisfied just making a profit. Over time I’m sure they will report losses and not enjoy steady year over year of a profit as they did. I’m sure the highs will hopefully outpace the lows. If not they will be bought out. Time will tell.

Well said. We were very loyal to SW for more than a decade - we never even looked at any other airline unless SW did not fly to our destination. They had the best fares, friendliest service, and most sensible policies. They rarely were delayed, and usually were early. There was a streak where we would all bet on how EARLY our flight would arrive at its destination - would it be 15 minutes, 20 minutes, 30(!!).... Those days are gone.

flights.google.com is now a bookmark that I visit frequently.

They passed all of these changes off as "this is what the customers want," but I don't know any SW customer who wanted this. I get offering some level of seat assignments for a premium (but not the entire plane; they could have easily kept the back half of the plane as open seating), but who exactly wanted to pay for checked bags? And, frankly, I could look past all of these changes, except the fact that their flights are not as convenient as other airlines, they are more expensive than other airlines, and, since moving to the checked baggage fee, they have been delayed more than other airlines (0 of my 10 SW flights in 2025 were within 45 minutes of the expected arrival time).

I do wonder if they are trying to flounder a bit in the short term to restructure some debt.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I do wonder if they are trying to flounder a bit in the short term to restructure some debt.

Elliott Management who has driven all these changes has a history of taking companies, making a lot of decisions that end up being bad for the company and getting as much profit as they can and then they divest of the company. They do not have the best interest in mind for any customer or for the actual health of the company. That could be said about private equity firms in general but some are indeed worse than others and Elliott Management is not a good one in this respects. Their norm is to be hostile, aggressive and prioritize short-term not long-term. They do not care about the company they take over, they are in it to make a buck and leave, that is their history.

 

[BlueGreen5]

Elliott Management who has driven all these changes has a history of taking companies, making a lot of decisions that end up being bad for the company and getting as much profit as they can and then they divest of the company. They do not have the best interest in mind for any customer or for the actual health of the company. That could be said about private equity firms in general but some are indeed worse than others and Elliott Management is not a good one in this respects. Their norm is to be hostile, aggressive and prioritize short-term not long-term. They do not care about the company they take over, they are in it to make a buck and leave, that is their history.

I get that. Disney has been that way sometimes. But this doesn't even look like someone prioritizing short-term gain, not at least directly. When someone is directly prioritizing short-term gain, they are increasing volume/revenue and cutting costs in unsustainable ways, knowing that there is going to be a point of no return in the near future (e.g., hire cheap, unskilled labor to manufacture widgets at twice the speed using cheap materials and then run a widget sale). That would look more like the Frontier/Spirit model than the AA/United/Delta model.

SW expanded its service area rapidly pre-COVID - Mexico, Hawaii, many new continental U.S. destinations, and new airports in existing destinations. Those all involve long-term contracts, many at airports with great bargaining power. At the same time, it had that major technology meltdown and got told that it needed to bring its technology to modern standards, and my understanding is that bill was not cheap. I can't help but think it's all related. My suspicion is that Elliott Management's investment was more based upon them identifying an opportunity to elicit incredible management fees for a turnaround role that involves SW unwinding some of those airport contracts and deferring or eliminating some of that tech upgrade bill. How do you do that? You follow industry norms and, when they don't work (becasuse they won't), you cry poor. Elliott will then exit, claiming that the market wasn't ready for another legacy carrier or blaming external forces, and quitely citing their loss as proof that they thought they were taking the company in the right direction. But, privately, they won't care; they will have received many millions in management fees for a turnaround (that might actually work).

I guess that's still short-term gain, but it's not short-term gain from the customers who they are gauging.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

But this doesn't even look like someone prioritizing short-term gain, not at least directly. When someone is directly prioritizing short-term gain, they are increasing volume/revenue and cutting costs in unsustainable ways, knowing that there is going to be a point of no return in the near future

I'm not sure we're talking about different things here. Well other than yes they are getting short-term gain out of the customers because they now had paid stuff that wasn't paid before: baggage fees, assigned seats and of course CCs (both in raising the annual fee and attempting to get consumers locked into a branded CC for a benefit they used to get for free without it (luggage and no need to use it for a boarding benefit). It's been said one of the most lucrative things for airlines is baggage fees.

This is what Elliott Management's M.O. is. They are not treating SWA any different down to the way they force out prior management in order to make it their own as well as force what they want to happen. This isn't about what SWA has done in the past this with expansions, airport contracts, tech issues and the like. That's just the smoke screen and I don't mean that conspirator way I mean that because it's a good way for someone to try and explain how they do this to basically every company they take on.

The short term is that they only care about the company for the short term, making decisions that are in it for what it can get them now not what the long-term impact would be of making such decisions and this is more in your face with how they go about it since their norm is to by very aggressive and hostile at getting changes they want through by just about any means possible.

As far as short term gain they are cutting costs in unsustainable ways. It's a narrow way of defining short term gains by talking about it like it's about unskilled or cheap labor or sales.

They removed the included luggage something of which the CEO publicly and loudly said wouldn't happen because that was the core of their business. They brought in assigned seating charging what can be a high price for just a middle seat, they brought back expiring credits which to that point that's a more gray area because having that on the books for an eternity is a problem with many companies not just the airline industry (think company benefits like PTO and sick pay).

They changed the entire way of doing flights removing non-stops in favor of connections which increasingly is making it harder for people to get from Point A to Point B with any reasonable time. We booked Costa Rica for May and a good amount of their flight options available per day were 15-20 HOURS+ because of connections.

This is the day we selected to go, a Saturday


This is the next day a Sunday. 2 flights use the same flight from Houston back to KC and the remaining 4 use the same flight from Houston back to KC.


This is coming back home which if obviously means there's only 1 option and it's the same flight for both options leaving Costa Rica


If selected Sunday where all flights are the same leaving Costa Rica


SWA wasn't in the best of shape before they took over and were increasingly having trouble finding ways out of it but it's also looking at knowing how this particular private equity/hedge fund does business. From Enron restructuring, to TWA, to Cabelas with Bass Pro to Aetnahealth to a slew of other companies, rarely do the companies end up better off with their interference. That's a big reason why you're seeing so many of these changes so rapidly and seemingly without much consideration to the end effect. People who didn't fly SWA much thought they were getting just an airline now that would do assigned seats, that's only a small part of what has been happening with the company.