Possible MS changes to changing names on reservations

[Mtnman44]

I don't see how they have a right to tell me what I can do with my points or reservations. i have a deeded ownership. Creating some kind of policy restriciton on modifying existing reservations would be baseless and transparent. I sure hope this rumor is not true.

 

[MarieA]

I recently booked a room for my DS and DD and a few friends. I booked at the 7 month window and at that time was given names by my DS of friends that were going. One cancelled shortly after and another cancelled a couple of months after I booked. I added a two people to replace the two that cancelled and one of my DD's friends decided to travel with them only 1 month before the vacation. How can they put this policy into effect - especially if the Dining Plan is added to the reservation? Does this mean that if we book 6 people initially and 2 people cancel, their names cannot be removed from the reservation? Would we be responsible for paying for the Dining Plan for guests who were originally on the reservation? This is not a good policy and would make me as well as many other DVC members upset. I can't imagine DVC putting rules like this into effect.

I do not rent my DVC and if I have any extra points I let my DS, DD or other family members use them.

 

[hematite153]

I think the best solution would be for DVC to require a change in just the primary person be considered a cancellation and rebooking, and that the primary person must appear in order to check-in. That would put a halt to the practice of pre-booking choice reservations for the sole purpose of renting months down the road.

I agree with this idea.

But what if the "primary person" is the one who is sick or dies?

I might adapt Mike's idea by saying that if there was ANY name that remained on the reservation from the time of booking to check-in it would not count as a cancellation.

In other words, I made a reservation to go with my in-laws, but then I get sick and cannot go. They can go without me because I listed them at the beginning.

However, this would require DVC to keep information about when a name was added to a reservation. And they seem to be having trouble keeping names as it is.

For my upcoming stay, they lost the names of the kids (still had the ages, but, the reservation said "6 adults, 0 children, ages X, Y, Z"). Then, later the spelling of one of the names changed--one that had been previously printed on a confirmation letter correctly. Then, they called to say that they "thought we had a reservation" but they didn't have any names for any people staying in the room.

Under this rumoured change, I would have lost my reservation 3 times because of their own mistakes!

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I don't see how they have a right to tell me what I can do with my points or reservations. i have a deeded ownership. Creating some kind of policy restriciton on modifying existing reservations would be baseless and transparent. I sure hope this rumor is not true.

Have to agree with Mtmnam on this. There are too many variables that can occur in regards to reservation names. I can't believe there isn't some other solution they can come up with to circumvent the real problem.

 

[DVC Mike]

But what if the "primary person" is the one who is sick or dies?

Perhaps DVC would only allow changing the "primary person" on the reservation 15 days in advance. It would be very difficult for a person to rent out a speculative booking if they couldn't provide the renter with a confirmation with their name on it until right before the trip.

I might adapt Mike's idea by saying that if there was ANY name that remained on the reservation from the time of booking to check-in it would not count as a cancellation.

That is certainly another option, although it is probably more difficult for MS to implement.

 

[DVC Mike]

DVC could pretty easily tell who are the professional renters out there.

How many legit owners and users change the primary name on a reservation 10 times per year, for example? It would be easy to set a threshold to detect professional renters. Of course, there would be some false alarms. The threshold could be set using the Neyman-Pearson criteria. Maximize the probability of detection while minimizing the probability of a false alarm.

Yes, they can certainly identify a pattern. But what if someone only changes the name one time on each ressie? And even if they detect a pattern, what then? Do they cancel the ressie and leave the poor renter left out in the cold after having paid their fee to the member?

I think it's better to implement some policy that would directly curtail the practice, without causing most members any serious problems.

I think the best solution would be for DVC to require a change in just the primary person be considered a cancellation and rebooking unless made 15 days before the check-in date, and that the primary person must appear in order to check-in. That would put a halt to the practice of pre-booking choice reservations for the sole purpose of renting months down the road. It would be very difficult for a person to rent out a speculative booking if they couldn't provide the renter with a confirmation with their name on it until right before the trip.

 

[JimMIA]

I still like the idea of doing some basic auditing. It's so easy to do, costs virtually nothing, and it would provide a lot of basic information for DVC.

A thorough analysis -- instead of the seat of the pants method implied by this thread -- would tell them whether there is a real problem or not.

We all assume this is a big problem, but it might not be a big deal at all. Sure, there are people who make speculative ressies -- but are there 6 of those, or 6,000? The truth is none of us have a clue.

I don't think I've ever seen anyone cite a single owner with more than 3-4 speculative ressies. So, looking at the Thanksgiving to New Years period, for example, there might only be a couple dozen speculative ressies out of thousands and thousands of DVC transactions. If that's the case, should DVC really focus their energy (and our dues money) working on that little problem...or are there better ways to improve DVC?

 

[tubtruck]

I thought the rules stated that non commercial renting IS allowed, so surley if you sign up for DVC and this is the rule, any change to this would not be allowed

 

[DebbieB]

I think the main reason why DVC is trying to curtail renting is because it is competition for them with their CRO reservations for DVC resorts.

 

[Brian Noble]

Is renting allowed, or isn't it? What does "non-commercial renting" even mean? Isn't renting, by definition, commercial?

 

[DVC Mike]

Is renting allowed, or isn't it? What does "non-commercial renting" even mean? Isn't renting, by definition, commercial?

Renting is allowed. Heck, if someone has some excess points or would rather cash out some points to book a cruise or another vacation, I don't have a problem with that.

However, when you're renting out your DVC membership so often that it becomes a commercial enterprise, then it is prohibited. I have no idea where DVC draws the line on this, or if they even enforce the line.

The POS states:

Use of Vacation Homes and recreational facilities for commercial purposes or any purposes other than the personal use described in this Declaration is expressly prohibited. "Commercial Purposes" includes a pattern of rental activity or other occupancy by an Owner that the Board, in its reasonable discretion, could conclude constitutes a commercial enterprise or practice.

Personal Use Only. Use of the Vacation Homes and related facilities of a DVC Resort is limited solely to the personal use of Club Members, their guests, invitees, exchangers and lessees and for recreational use by corporations or other similar business entities owning Ownership Interests while staying as a registered guest at a DVC Resort. Purchase of an Ownership Interest or use of Vacation Homes and related facilities of a DVC Resort for commercial purposes or for any purpose other than the personal use described above is expressly prohibited

 

[BostonDisneyKid]

I am in agreement with all who feel as though this change could/would cause problems for them personally. This seems to be just speculation without fact at this point though so I wouldnt be concerned. The current policy has worked fine (for the most part) for the past 15 years without major issues so why all of a sudden would there be a need to change it? If there is any fact or basis to this speculation there must be a financial reason behind it, that you can be assured of.

I would not be so quick to say "they cant do that" or "I own the deed, its mine" because we have all found out the hard way in the past year or two that they can change rules or policy and will do so if they choose to; and they have!!! Think of the most recent changes; OKW extensions, banking deadlines, the smoking policy, etc.

We all found out that they can and will do whatever benefits them most; financially. We as the members have no choice but to follow their rules because it is their game - period.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I guess I don't see how keeping someone from changing a name on a reservation really does what they are supposedly trying to do with this. It hurts the innocent bystander much more than it does the commercial renter. I think they were on the right track with the 20 reservations a year thing. Are they enforcing THAT one?

 

[crisi]

Is it possible they could be doing this for reasons other than renting? Possibly to move people through the waitlist - i.e. the "any change to a reservation is a new reservation" issue to encourage people who need to cancel to rebook and not reassign their room. (If so, I don't think its effective, but I'm not sure if its effective for renting either).

 

[dph-bah]

We banked points from last year knowing we couldn't use them last year. I am pretty sure we will not get to Disney this year either due to personal issues at home. So we wanted to rent our banked points, not our live points just in case things change. We made a ressie in our "renter's" names. No problem. The renters were not able to confirm the ressie numerous times, so were uncomfortable with the process and backed out. I called MS and was told "You should not be discussing this issue with me. That is a legal issue. Renting your points is illegal, and always has been. They are for personal use only and they are really enforcing that rule now". So, am I going to be forced to eat my banked points that I know I will not be able to use this year and any future years? If that's the case, I'm selling real soon!!!

 

[lenshanem]

If this rumor is true I will be quite mad with DVC. I make all the ressies and they are always under my name, but whatever relative that goes with us I just don't always know at 11 months out. If I lose my ressie at my home resort at BCV or VWL because I had to change a name and then all that is left is SSR my head would pop right off my body I'm sure.

 

[dianeschlicht]

We banked points from last year knowing we couldn't use them last year. I am pretty sure we will not get to Disney this year either due to personal issues at home. So we wanted to rent our banked points, not our live points just in case things change. We made a ressie in our "renter's" names. No problem. The renters were not able to confirm the ressie numerous times, so were uncomfortable with the process and backed out. I called MS and was told "You should not be discussing this issue with me. That is a legal issue. Renting your points is illegal, and always has been. They are for personal use only and they are really enforcing that rule now". So, am I going to be forced to eat my banked points that I know I will not be able to use this year and any future years? If that's the case, I'm selling real soon!!!

Well, the MS person who said that obviously has NOT read the POS! It says right in our documents that we CAN rent, just like any other timeshare owner can. The part about commercial renting is in there as something we can NOT do, but our legal documents DO give us the option of renting when we aren't able to use them for ourselves. This is something the MS people better find out soon, or I predict DVC will have some legal cases on its hands. That would clearly be a breach of contract on their part.

 

[JimMIA]

The renters were not able to confirm the ressie numerous times, so were uncomfortable with the process and backed out.

What made the renters think they were going to be able to verify the ressie???

I called MS and was told "You should not be discussing this issue with me. That is a legal issue. Renting your points is illegal, and always has been. They are for personal use only and they are really enforcing that rule now". So, am I going to be forced to eat my banked points that I know I will not be able to use this year and any future years? If that's the case, I'm selling real soon!!!

We've heard this comment a few times recently, but the CM is mistaken as others have said. And it's certainly not the first time a MS CM has been mistaken.

There is nothing illegal about any kind of renting -- even blatant commercial renting. Commercial renting patterns are prohibited by the POS...but they're not illegal under Florida, or any other, law. Sounds like that CM was either new, badly trained, or feeling a little self-important today.

I strongly suspect the CMs who supplied the info that led to this thread are equally wrong. A blanket rule that you can't change a name on a ressie is just nuts on several levels.

 

[dizzneebabe]

Well, the MS person who said that obviously has NOT read the POS! It says right in our documents that we CAN rent, just like any other timeshare owner can. The part about commercial renting is in there as something we can NOT do, but our legal documents DO give us the option of renting when we aren't able to use them for ourselves. This is something the MS people better find out soon, or I predict DVC will have some legal cases on its hands. That would clearly be a breach of contract on their part.

And isn't there a disclaimer that the call to MS "may be monitored for training purposes?" Well, that one needs to go back to boot camp! I think it is obnoxious for the CM to say that to you! Wouldn't you think that is part of their basic training????

I just made a reservation on a whim at VB for a 2bd with the idea in mind that maybe my parents or friends could join us. The first thing the CM asked me was, "...And will this be for you or a guest?" She didn't make me feel like a criminal!!! In this case (as in most), it is for me. I did give her my parents' names--even before I talked to anyone about this! So, if I had to cancel, b/c my parents couldn't go, I'd be FURIOUS!!!

If they were to enforce a rule such as that, I can see it causing other rules to be broken!

 

[hematite153]

If they were to enforce a rule such as that, I can see it causing other rules to be broken!

Yep! People will likely stop telling them about name switches, if doing so means losing the room.