Possible Debate inspired by Desperate Housewives.

[va32h]

For maternity leave I would receive 13 weeks 100% paid time off. For adoption leave I would receive only 8 weeks paid time off. I think that is a bunch of bull as well.

I don't necessarily agree. With childbirth a certain amount of physical recuperation is necessary for the mother. Perhaps not an extra five weeks worth, I'll grant you.

 

[yeartolate]

I am a working parent.


People have to take jobs that fit in with their lifestyle. They need to pick an employer that may be sympathetic and flexible. But the bottom line is that I think the "childless by choice" absolutely have a right to be pissed at "perks" given to the parents. With the holidays approaching - we are facing that at work. The whining commences "...you have to give me Christmas off, I have children" Ummmm, sorry, no you need to work it. If you can find (bribe ) someone to take your place, cool. But you don't take a fulltime job as a nurse at the bedside and expect to get all the holidays off!

Now, a day such as "first day of school" a parent would know about 6 months in advance. An employee in good standing with their company hopefully could (with 6 months notice) accomodate that request. Springing it on an employer with a weeks (or a days) notice is tacky.

 

[diznygirl]

So I shouldn't get the same consideration from the company I work for because I'm not contributing to the future generations? Is that not reverse discrimination?

~Amanda

Well, we can all be childless just to make it "fair" but then when we all died, there would be nobody left.

Seriously, I think companies should enforce the rules for everyone, regardless of personal life. However, I think companies should also be compassionate because happy employees are productive employees. But if employees are going to complain about "fairness" then the policies will be enforced strictly, and everyone loses.

 

[septbride2002]

I don't necessarily agree. With childbirth a certain amount of physical recuperation is necessary for the mother. Perhaps not an extra five weeks worth, I'll grant you.

We are considering adopting from China - my child would be close to a year old when I have her in my arms. I will need to take 2 weeks off to travel to china to get here which only gives me 6 weeks at home to initiate bonding with a child that has been in a orphanage all her life.

If anything an adoptive mother needs more time off.

I'm also going to have biological children so I'll get to use both policies - I just think the time off should be equal.

~Amanda

 

[Cindy B]

Personal time should be just that personal. If I was Lynette, I would have just come in later that day and submitted personal time for it.

Lynette basically shot herself in the foot when she interviewed for the job stating that her kids will never come between her and her job. Kids do!

I love my children and could never imagine life without them. Have they "hurt" my career track? My lack of flexibility due to daycare restraints or school schedules did have other be promoted besides me. Does it bother me?

Well, honestly it did. I worked as hard if not harder than some because I didn't have a lunch hour because I was getting kids off the bus or had a flexible schedule. I know there was some animosity in my office because I only worked 15 hours part time and got benefits and they worked 25 hours and got benefits. Some people thought that they should work 15 as well--whereas I gave up that 10 hours to meet my kids at the bus stop. But I worked twice as hard as them to get 25 hours of work done in 15 hours.

 

[AllyandJack]

We also ran into this issue with our health benefits. Our company paid 100% of the benefits. Those of us who didn't take them got an extra $500./month in our checks. However, the single people were annoyed that they didn't get extra money because they weren't taking the family plan and, therefore, their total compensation package was less because they didn't have a "family". They brought it up to the benefits people and now they get an extra $250./month for getting the individual and not the family plan.

Nothing is fair, but why should my total compensation package be less because I can't have kids? It's like being kicked all over again....Attorney X can leave at 3pm to watch her son play football, so you stay until 8pm to finish her brief, you're infertile, right? If Attorney X wants to leave at 3pm, Attorney X should make sure all of her work is done by 3pm and be prepared to work a Saturday to make up the billable hours.

 

[DisneyDmbNut]

EXACTLY! Your smoker break situation is almost parallel to what I'm trying to say. I don't need the time off because I don't have a child and therefore it is not as important. Meanwhile Barb can have the time because her kiddo has a soccer game at 3pm.

~Amanda

I take it your company doesn't have "personal" leave? Because you can call in and take a personal day and it is yours. Also..as you said, you have far less sick days on your record and look better at promotion time.
I m very fortunate to work for my boss..I have taken 2 weeks vacation this year and off a week in October for my cruise. I just found out that I have to have surgery and will be out 2 weeks in November. My boss's answer when I told him "Don't worry about it...you can't NOT" have the surgery" and he is paying me...times like this is why I don't pester him about commissions on $ I collect!

 

[Bob Slydell]

My theory in a nutshell:

It benefits society as a whole to allow parents to be good parents.

That is, the kids of these parents will not be kids forever. They will be fellow citizens of the world. Now, did their upbringing enable them to become good citizens or...otherwise? I think that, in part, depends on whether their parents were good to them.

People, in general, are so very very quick to blame parents for a bad kid. For example, if a kid's doing drugs, it's "where are the parents??"

Like I said, let parents do their jobs. It's good for ALL of us. Let a company judge on an individual basis (what my company does) whether an employee is abusing that or not.

Again, 99% of companies could care less about society as a whole -- and if I was a shareholder of a company that did, I'd be concerned. I agree with the concept of "the best employees are happy employees", but if it's a detriment to the company itself, it's not acceptable.

 

[bananiem]

I find it interesting that IBM here actually encourages parents to volunteer with their child's activities. They give computers to school's that have parents that volunteer their time with their students.

 

[Bob Slydell]

Personal time should be just that personal. If I was Lynette, I would have just come in later that day and submitted personal time for it.

Her problem wasn't lack of personal time, but rather that the time she wanted off interfered with (in her boss' mind) an important meeting that she needed to be at.

 

[Saphire]

My problem is there is such discrimination in the household. Why is it the woman who must skip an important meeting? Let the husband take the child to school! I applaud those men who carry their equal share of the responsibility in raising their child, but sadly, they are in the minority. That, to me, is unfair.

 

[In a hurry]

My problem is there is such discrimination in the household. Why is it the woman who must skip an important meeting? Let the husband take the child to school! I applaud those men who carry their equal share of the responsibility in raising their child, but sadly, they are in the minority. That, to me, is unfair.

It isn't about responsibility, but about a special time for a mom. Maybe, dad was taking him too.

 

[septbride2002]

I take it your company doesn't have "personal" leave? Because you can call in and take a personal day and it is yours. Also..as you said, you have far less sick days on your record and look better at promotion time.
I m very fortunate to work for my boss..I have taken 2 weeks vacation this year and off a week in October for my cruise. I just found out that I have to have surgery and will be out 2 weeks in November. My boss's answer when I told him "Don't worry about it...you can't NOT" have the surgery" and he is paying me...times like this is why I don't pester him about commissions on $ I collect!

We are offered 2 personal days - 16 hours. That we must account for in advance. If I call in one morning and want to take the day for personal time it counts against me like a sick day does. I know it is a strange policy.

~Amanda

 

[goofygirl]

Should working moms be given special treatment?

Absolutely NOT!


Why should they? When a woman (or a man), whether or not they are a parent, is hired by a workplace, it is understood that she is to commit to the job and be in X amount of hours and days. Case closed!

I am so glad to see a childfree character on "Housewives" again. I thought that was "all over" when Gabby became pregnant.


However, I'd like to see the childfree potrayed a little more favorably. It seems whenever you see a CF person on film or tv, its always the career obsessed, materialistic, vain selfish *itch of a woman. Its such a stereotype!

 

[momof2inPA]

What the show did that was so interesting was to contrast the concerns of non-parents (seeing a matinee or getting ones hair done) as being so incredibly trivial compared to the concerns of the parent (being there for the son's first day of school). In fact, I do think that getting one's hair done is trivial compared with a sick kid or first day of school, but a concrete absence policy is always the best way to go.

In reality, your best plan would be to let the boss/ manager decide and not raise a stink about the decisions. Then, when you're the boss, you can decide for yourself. Let's face it, some people waste work time leaving for a kid's soccer game, some employees waste time on ebay. It all gets noticed, and people are usually rewarded or punished accordingly.

 

[kikipug]

Uh, my parents never went with me to my first day of school IIRC. They put me on the bus and waved goodbye!

I have always done the same with my kids... morning photos before they head off to the bus stop, then off they go. No hand-holding, no following the bus and meeting them at school... not even when they were in Kg!

 

[mcnuss]

I didn't see the show but I'm a working mom. Luckily, I have personal time and I don't need to give a reason for taking time off. I do have a boss whose children are older and is understanding that sometimes I need a couple of hours off to take care of Mom type things. Since my co-workers can also take time off for whatever reason they'd like, there really isn't a jealousy issue or a feeling that they're covering for me and it's not reciprocated. I also often have comp time when I work overtime if it's needed in our department.

In my opinion, it's a two-way street. I cover for my co-workers (those with or without children) and they cover for me. We're a team and that's the way it works. My dd is older now which means I have less of these events that I need to attend but I'm loyal to this organization because they were flexible when I needed it.

And a time may come when those who are childless by choice may need to deal with family problems and care for their own aging parents. Perhaps they might like to have the same flexibility that working moms have. I was also allowed to use personal leave when my father was quite ill and dying. Most everyone has obligations of some kind outside their job. It's not just working moms that need to take time off to fulfill those obligations.

In my department of 17 people, 3 of us have kids, the rest do not. No one is begrudged the oppportunity to take care of life's little emergencies. It's a myth that the childfree pick up the slack for the people with kids. If you are a salaried, professional (vs an hourly "shift" worker), you are expected to get your work done no matter how long it takes. So, in this hypothetical, if I take the time to be there for my child's first day of school, I am going to be working late or at home to get my work done. If my co-worker takes the same amount of time to go to the dentist, or take her mom to the doctor, I don't "pick up the slack", she does, and on her own time. I couldn't begin to do her work, and she could not have a clue where to start on mine. If you work on a team, then you balance the work load. Some days you have more than other people, and then vice versa. It all comes out in the end and it all comes down to respect.

Maybe I am just lucky that this has never been an issue any where I've ever worked.

BTW -- Didn't it strike anyone else that she was obsessed with Lynette's attendance at the meeting, yet did not seem to care at all about the hijinks occurring right outside her door using the company's very expensive equipment?? It just showed me that she has a vendetta against people with kids. I think it's going to turn out that there's a backstory on this woman. (And ps: the actress is pregnant in real life!! How funny is that??)

 

[shortbun]

I think employers should be flexible with everyone-not just parents. Everyone has real needs. As a parent, I changed jobs so I could be around more. My choice. I'm conflicted on this one as I think your fight is about the grownups but it does effect the little ones. Hmmmmmmm. Pass the popcorn. Anyone seen the bottle opener?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Aren't all employees given the same amount of sick/personal time? I think everyone should use that time as they please, when it runs out, it runs out.

 

[Chicago526]

While you might feel this way before having children, you may change your mind when your baby is off to their very first day of school ever. It's a big milestone that most parents do not want to miss. When dd was young, my ex and I did divide up a lot of events/illness, etc.--he's go to one and I'd go to another or we'd take turns staying home with her when she was ill (we didn't divorce till dd was older.) However, the first day of kindergarten was something we both wanted to see and we both went with her.

Luckily, I had an employer who had no problem with me doing this.

Oh, I don't know. My SIL sent her oldest off to kindergarten this fall. She walked him to the bus stop and waved good-bye! And this is THE most motherly woman I've ever met. There is NOTHING she wouldn't do for her boys!

Don't get me wrong, if I COULD take my child to 1st day of school, then I would. If I could not due to work, then I'd be disapointed but it wouldn't be the end of the world, either. DH would be able to share a special moment with the child instead of me, that's all!