Pool Hopping, Mug-Reusing, & All Around Abusing!???

[Justish]

Can someone explain the thought proccess of all this to me?

I don't really want to open an old wound debate about the pros and cons,
the merits and the debotchery of pool hopping and re-using mugs from
old trips and the like... but...

It doesn't make a LICK of sense to me and I'm just trying to get my head
around it.

Why in the world would ANYONE do something they know is wrong or not
allowed like this?

If you are staying at another resort on-world: What is SO BAD abouty your
pool that you just have to go to the others, which you know are specifically
designed for the people at THAT resort?

If you are staying at a resort off-world: Why didn't you pick one with a
pool or consider the issue of wanting to play at a fun pool when budgeting
your trip? It sounds like poor planning but maybe there is something more
to it?

If you are a florida resident: Why not just pony up the $$ for one of the
water parks. Their are cheaper ones off world, and BB and TL are WAAAY
better than any of the resort pools anyway!?

I just want to understand the "Well... I think this way, so thats why I
pool hop" Or the "Well, the common feeling is this when people choose
to pool hop."

Like wise on mugs and using ECV's and such when you DONT need them!?

It personally never ever crossed my mind until I read about this to even
consider trying to get into another resorts pool, or use my mug at a diff
resort. Why? when I have a perfectly good resort I PAID for and can claim
as my Disney home to go to and use!? Call me a seriously sheltered person
but I just couldn't get over the guilt and shame I'd feel for using something
that isn't mine....

*zips up her flame ressistant suit* Alright, I'm ready for you.

~Ally

 

[Deb & Bill]

It comes down to ethics. Either you have them or you don't.

 

[Justish]

But they have to have SOME reason besides "I want to see the other pools." I might
be able to understand that some have slides where others dont, but
is a slide REALLY worth driving/taking the bus or whatever you must do to GET
to the new pool? I'm not so sure...

 

[MickeyNicki]

I don't really want to open an old wound debate about the pros and cons,
the merits and the debotchery of pool hopping and re-using mugs from
old trips and the like... but...

~Ally

Then dont open a thread like this...

 

[larryz]

Me, first -- I'm special! They've been telling me that since I was in kindergarten, nobody has ever held me accountable for my behavior, and I sure as heck ain't gonna let it start with YOU! Besides, I paid HUGE $$$ for this vacation, and Disney owes me big time. If there's no lock on the soda machine, that means I can take as much as I want without paying extra for it. Those of you who follow the "rules" are just stupid suckers, and you can spend more if you want to, but I'm not going to. I'll swim in whatever Disney pool I want, 'cause I paid for the privilege! Besides, everyone else does it (except the stupid suckers) and I'm not letting anyone else get an edge on MY vacation! What's it to you, anyway? I'm not getting in your way, messing up your vacation, am I? Keep your morals to yourself, and I'll do the same!

 

[AJKMOM]

Some think that since the vacation costs so much money, they can do whatever they darn well want.

 

[Alicnwondrln]

 

[tinklvr64]

 

[Justish]

Is it really all about money though?

Larryz - I think thats probably a good observation, about upbringing and how people are raised to think they are above the law. But does that mean these people don't READ the signs? Aren't there postings that say the pool is for resort guest use only? Don't they try and give "legal" guests wrist bands? How do people really get past this? And Do you think these people would really
fight Disney if they are asked to leave? I wonder if it's just not a well enough
known rule that people really honestly DONT know they aren't supposed to do
it?

MickeyNicki I only meant I wanted to ask a question about the subject, not
start Ettiquite War 3 ^_^

 

[praline3001]

 

[larryz]

Is it really all about money though?

Larryz - I think thats probably a good observation, about upbringing and how people are raised to think they are above the law. But does that mean these people don't READ the signs? Yeah, they just don't care. Aren't there postings that say the pool is for resort guest use only? Once again, they don't care. Signs don't apply to them -- only the "stupid suckers." Don't they try and give "legal" guests wrist bands? How do people really get past this? And Do you think these people would really fight Disney if they are asked to leave? I wonder if it's just not a well enough known rule that people really honestly DONT know they aren't supposed to do it? People will try and get away with it until called on it. Disney, on the other hand, fully expects that 90 percent will comply, and the 10 percent who won't aren't a big enough problem to worry about (and don't want to alienate potential future customers).

My position is that such behavior alienates ME, a presently paying and potential future customer as well. I will bring that behavior to the attention of the nearest cast member, and if they do nothing, then to the area manager. I'm like you -- boorish behavior such as you cited is beyond my comprehension, but I understand the significant difference in how I was raised and how a large number of people haven't been.

 

[jerseygal]

For those paying $69.99 on Deluxe Dining Plan Per Person, refillable mug as you know is "included" in the cost....

For $69.99 per day, per person, perhaps us bad bad resort guests think it is no skin off Disneys back to use our little old resort mug at a different resort...

You better believe for that price I'll be refilling anytime and anywhere!

If Disney was so concerned about where to refill, then they shouldn't have made the mugs "generic" or better yet had some type of bar code scanning system...

 

[minnie61650]

Some guests think that if WDW really cared then they would not count on guest integrity. Some think "WDW should know by now that guests will use any loop hole they can. Gee I guess Disney does NOT care other wise they find a way = to enforce their rules."

When WDW started selling mutiday tickets that were to be used by the same person each day guests went ahead and sold half used tickets anyway.
STUPID Disney if they really cared they would do something about it.
Tickets cost more.

Then came Biometric readers and more time getting through the gates.

DDP child credits and adult credits were grouped.
Another loophole--Guests paid children's meals OOP and used the adult credits for Signature meals.
STUPID Disney if they really cared they would do something about it.
Now the meals are separated and DDP costs more.

Let's park at CR and go the parks.
STUPID Disney if they really cared they would do something about it.
Now there are 3 hour parking permits.

Refill Mugs. Guests using the mugs at different resorts.
Many guests justified it because they had split stays.
I myself as I am quite sure many others did) wrote to WDW because I (they)felt it was unfair to guests with split stays ( I myself never had a split stay)
WDW changed to one mug so that it can now be used at any place that refills a Disney refillable mug.

This is a plus for any guest who uses a refill mug.

Yes, WDW does care about the bottom and they do care about refill mug abuse and when it effects their bottom line that the increased price of mug does cover it and there is a cost effective way to stop the mug abuse they will STOP it.

I personally think it is a shame that WDW has to enforce the rules because they can no longer trust the integrity of their guests.

 

[minnie61650]

[......If Disney was so concerned about where to refill, then they shouldn't have made the mugs "generic" or better yet had some type of bar code scanning system...

Here are some articles I did find that were written in 2002 where WDW was planning on using a bar code for the resorts. For some reason it did not work. I think because a bar code is only good for 1 day and guests would need to buy a new bar code each day.


------------------------------------------------
From this Mouseplanet.com websiteJune,2002:

http://www.mouseplanet.com/mike/ref...icy_changes.htm

In an effort to rein in costs and increase income, the Walt Disney World Resort hotels are making some drastic changes to the extremely popular refillable mug program that may affect many repeat visitors to the resort.

[If you are unfamiliar with the program, you can read about it in MousePlanet's WDW Resorts from A to Z page under "Refillable Mugs."]

According to an article in the Orlando Sentinel entitled "32 ounces of soda not enough? Disney tries out self-serve refills," Walt Disney World is making large 32-ounce soft drink mugs available for free self-serve refills in Typhoon Lagoon. That's the good news. The bad news is that you can only refill your mug on the day of purchase. If you return to Typhoon Lagoon the next day, you can no longer refill your mug for free.

Disney has added a new UPC bar coding system to the self-serve refill stations that, for the first time, controls a previously unenforced policy. Although the refillable mug program has always been advertised as available during an actual length of stay that allows guests to refill their mugs during their trip, in reality, guests often brought their mugs back on subsequent trips to refill them free of charge. With the UPC code tied to a guest's hotel reservation, this new system closes this loophole altogether. That is, once your stay has ended, your mug is no longer refillable. Those mugs you bought on previous visits won't work next time you vacation at WDW.
Another loophole that may close with this new system is that you might not be able to use your mug at any other resort except at the one you are staying. For example, if you stay at one of the resorts for a few days and purchase a mug there, and then you move over to another resort for the balance of your vacation, the mug might not be refillable at the second resort.How will this new system be enforced? Once the UPC code system is fully activated, they can devise a system by which the fountains work only if an "active" UPC code is on the mug.

WDW visitors are already complaining that the new system is yet another line to stand in and just "more time-consuming nonsense cutting into [one's] vacation time."

Did you recently visit WDW and see this change in practice? If you have any first-hand knowledge or experience, please email me or Brian Bennett at brian@mouseplanet.com to provide us with more details.

---------------------------------------------------------
Here is another article written in June 2002:

http://www.theshiftedlibrarian.com/2002/06/24.html

Disney Mug Holders, Beware

"The new system of computerized monitoring of fountain refills being experimented with at Typhoon Lagoon could tighten a rather loose policy at Disney's resorts. They sell 16-ounce souvenir mugs for $9.99.

Guests may refill them at resort snack bars unlimited times with soda, coffee or tea for the length of their stay. Cashiers sell the mugs and then are supposed to keep a watchful eye as guests get their own refills.

But some Disney World employees and regular guests say they take the mugs on repeat visits to the snack bars and fill up -- basically a lifetime of free drinks for one purchase. They are occasionally offered on eBay and at garage sales, testimony to their timeless value.

Cashiers say the mugs' designs aren't changed enough for them to spot old ones. But the new system being tried at Typhoon Lagoon employs a bar code that's read electronically at the drink dispenser and recognizes old mugs." [Orlando Sentinel, via Boing Boing]

----------------------------------------------------------------

And another from June 2002:

From this website:

http://www.intercot.com/news/2002/june.asp

News Archive - June 2002

June 27, 2002


Refillable Mug Policy Tightening?
According to the Orlando Sentinel, Disney is experimenting with a new computerized barcode system to be used in tandem with it's refillable mug program offered at their resorts. The program allows guests to buy a mug for each person in their party which then can be used for unlimited drink refills during their stay. The policy change could come as a result of Guests taking the mugs on repeat visits to Disney World to fill up on what becomes basically a lifetime of free drinks for one purchase.

-----------------------------

Just my 2 cents.

 

[larryz]

I personally think it is a shame that WDW has to enforce the rules because they can no longer trust the integrity of their guests.

Well said!

 

[Tink030]

Can someone explain the thought proccess of all this to me?

I don't really want to open an old wound debate about the pros and cons,
the merits and the debotchery of pool hopping and re-using mugs from
old trips and the like... but...

It doesn't make a LICK of sense to me and I'm just trying to get my head
around it.

Why in the world would ANYONE do something they know is wrong or not
allowed like this?

If you are staying at another resort on-world: What is SO BAD abouty your
pool that you just have to go to the others, which you know are specifically
designed for the people at THAT resort?

If you are staying at a resort off-world: Why didn't you pick one with a
pool or consider the issue of wanting to play at a fun pool when budgeting
your trip? It sounds like poor planning but maybe there is something more
to it?

If you are a florida resident: Why not just pony up the $$ for one of the
water parks. Their are cheaper ones off world, and BB and TL are WAAAY
better than any of the resort pools anyway!?

I just want to understand the "Well... I think this way, so thats why I
pool hop" Or the "Well, the common feeling is this when people choose
to pool hop."

Like wise on mugs and using ECV's and such when you DONT need them!?

It personally never ever crossed my mind until I read about this to even
consider trying to get into another resorts pool, or use my mug at a diff
resort. Why? when I have a perfectly good resort I PAID for and can claim
as my Disney home to go to and use!? Call me a seriously sheltered person
but I just couldn't get over the guilt and shame I'd feel for using something
that isn't mine....

*zips up her flame ressistant suit* Alright, I'm ready for you.

~Ally

I think you are looking to open old wounds
Also I think you're bored or maybe just

 

[Dis Ohana]

Until I read it on the DIS, I had no idea that pool hopping was such a huge offense. To be honest, to do something like that would never even cross my mind. I personally wouldn't do it mainly because I'm too lazy to pack up and have to travel to another hotel just to jump in the pool .

I'm not sure if it's a WDW thing or if I just never noticed it at DL, but there seemed to be a huge amount of guests in ECV's when we were there. A lot of them were not elderly or noticeably handicap. I realize that a lot of people have unseen disabilities and I'm glad Disney makes accommodation for these guests. But I have a hard time believing that such a large number of people would not be able to walk around the parks. I really wouldn't have paid much attention if I hadn't almost been run over numerous times, or stood by and watched them and their party zip to the front of the line. I don't know if Disney keeps a whole fleet of those things on hand, but it would be a real shame if someone that needed it couldn't be accommodated just because another guest was too lazy to walk.

 

[bdcp]

It's the same old, entitlement, me first, I'm more important, rules are made to be broken crowd that seem to be almost everywhere. In this world of "building" children's self-esteem by telling them how "special they are", we've created a monster as the parents of these same children feel they are also special. Accomplishing goals creates self esteem. False, empty praise builds self-absorbed, obnoxious, selfish people. We've raised two sons who are polite, appreciative and self-confident adults as we didnt' do everything for them or constantly tell them how perfect they are. It spills over into the demands people make and the compensation they demand for other's honest mistakes and accidents. This is one thing about society that scares me. The greatest generation we had (WWII era) were self-sufficient, honest, hard working people and that has become "old fashioned". Sad really sad.

I never understood why some think pool hopping is no big deal. You pay $100/night at a value and think it's okay to go to a deluxe where other's have paid $400/night and use the pool? It's common sense people. You pay for the amenities at the resort you are staying at, not for a cheap way to use the ameninties at another.

 

[Karlzmom]

Is it really all about money though?

Larryz - I think thats probably a good observation, about upbringing and how people are raised to think they are above the law. But does that mean these people don't READ the signs? Aren't there postings that say the pool is for resort guest use only? Don't they try and give "legal" guests wrist bands? How do people really get past this? And Do you think these people would really
fight Disney if they are asked to leave? I wonder if it's just not a well enough
known rule that people really honestly DONT know they aren't supposed to do
it?

MickeyNicki I only meant I wanted to ask a question about the subject, not
start Ettiquite War 3 ^_^

It may come as a shock, but people do whatever they want, whenever they want ! A little thing like a system to try to keep them in line won't bug them a bit....think about it, outside the world., how many ways is responsible Joe/Jane-citizen inconvenienced because the world has tried to stop the criminals from fully taking over? Does making an honest person show 3 forms of ID to use their credit card stop fake or stolen cards from being used? How about having your insurance company hassle the *ell out of you before your procedure is authorized? Does it stop insurance fraud?

One of my former colleagues said it best in a closing argument, "Most of us will be fortunate enough to not be the victims of a robbery, or know someone who is murdered. But everyone one of us is affected by the seemingly petty criminal actions of others...You can't set anything down without it walking away, your property is ripe for destruction at their whim, the higher price you and I pay to offset their taking without paying...ladies and gentlemen, these are the crimes that make life suck!" He was reprimanded by our supervisor for the language in front of a jury, but his point was given a big thumbs-up by the rest of the unit. Far too often polite society simply shrugs its shoulders and thinks that its our problem to deal with boorish behavior. Sadly, this attitude even invades the criminal system as we apply a relative standard, "well its not as bad as X crime, shouldn't the cops do something more important."

If a criminal statute and threats of incarceration isn't enough to deter, why would a policy and ugly look? Unfortunately, to make the jerks fully compliant would require the rest of us to live in a police state.....

 

[minnie61650]

Until I read it on the DIS, I had no idea that pool hopping was such a huge offense. To be honest, to do something like that would never even cross my mind. I personally wouldn't do it mainly because I'm too lazy to pack up and have to travel to another hotel just to jump in the pool .

I'm not sure if it's a WDW thing or if I just never noticed it at DL, but there seemed to be a huge amount of guests in ECV's when we were there. A lot of them were not elderly or noticeably handicap. I realize that a lot of people have unseen disabilities and I'm glad Disney makes accommodation for these guests. But I have a hard time believing that such a large number of people would not be able to walk around the parks. I really wouldn't have paid much attention if I hadn't almost been run over numerous times, or stood by and watched them and their party zip to the front of the line. I don't know if Disney keeps a whole fleet of those things on hand, but it would be a real shame if someone that needed it couldn't be accommodated just because another guest was too lazy to walk.

FYI:

Disney started mainstreaming most of their lines in the late 1990's. Those in WC/ECV will usually enter in the regular line. She will be able to stay in EVC until just before boarding most of the time.
Sometimes the WC/EVC (and up to 5 additional members of their party) may be pulled from the mainstream line part way down so they can board the ride in an
accessible area. EVC's can't climb steps so sometimes they need to take an elevator. Or they may need to board a ride where the riders usually exit in case
they need an accessible vehicle or need the moving sidewalk slowed or stopped so they can board.


Another quote from SueM in MN taken from post17 of this thread.

I know this was already answered, but here's a bit more clarification.
That is a common misconception that people with wheelchairs and ECVs get moved to the front, but it's not true.
People using wheelchairs or ECVs don't get out of waiting in line.
Most of the lines at WDW are wheelchair accessible, so there are very few situations where someone actually goes thru a wheelchair entrance. In most cases, they wait in the same line with everyone else. For a very few attractions, there is an alternate entrace because the regular one isn't accessible and was not able to be made accessible (most in MK or Epcot since they were built before accessibility was thought of). There are some others, where the boarding area is not accessible and wheelchair/ECV users wait in the regular or Fastpass line and then are pulled into a different area for loading (Buzz Lightyear, Haunted Mansion and Splash Mountain are examples).

One of the other things that people who don't use wheelchairs don't know is where people with wheelchairs go when they are taken out of the line. They assume those people who 'disappear' from the line are boarding right away, but that is not usually the case.
If they can't board at the regular boarding spot, they are pulled out of the line - usually just before the regular line gets to the boarding area (so they have already waited as long as everyone that got in the line the same time as they did).
For example, at Buzz Lightyear, the 'pull off point' is after you have gone thru the room with the large Buzz Lightyear, near the point where regular line is beginning to enter the actual boarding area. Guests with wheelchairs/ ECVs are pulled out of line at that point and sent to the exit - not to board right away, but to wait. If there are too many people with disabilities already on the attraction, you have to wait for some to get off (for fire safetly and evacuation reasons). Because our DD can't get out of her wheelchair easily, we have to wait extra for a special car that the wheelchair can be loaded on. We usually see the people who were right ahead of us in line getting off after riding while we are still waiting to board. In some rides, boarding at the accessible area means you miss part of the attraction; for example, at Haunted Mansion, you miss the entire 'stretching room' part of the attraction.

The Safari at AK is notorious for extra waits for people with disabilities. Our longest wait there was an EXTRA 40 minutes at a time when the regular line was walk on and Safari Trams were pulling out partially loaded because people were not walking up fast enough to fill them.

Spaceship Earth is a ride with a handicapped entrance, but during times when other passengers are able to walk right on, our wait is usually 20-30 minutes.

AK and the Studio were built with what are called 'Mainstream Lines'. These are lines where the regular line is wheelchair/ECV accessible and a person using a wheelchair or ECV waits in the same line with everyone else.

Here's what it says in the official WDW Guidebook for Guests with Disabilities about Mainstream Lines and the list of attractions with Mainstream Queues:
As you can see, most of the lines are Mainstream Queues:

Magic Kingdom® Park
Ariel's Grotto
Astro Orbiter
Buzz Lightyear's Space Ranger Spin
Donald's Boat
Judge's Tent
Mickey's Country House
Mickey's PhilharMagic
Mike Fink Keelboats (seasonal)
Minnie's Country House
Pirates of the Caribbean
Space Mountain®
Splash Mountain®
Stitch's Great Escape!™
The Barnstormer at Goofy's Wiseacres Farm
"The Enchanted Tiki Room Under New Management"
The Hall of Presidents
The Magic Carpets of Aladdin
The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
The Timekeeper (seasonal)
Tomorrowland® Indy Speedway
Toontown Hall of Fame
Walt Disney's Carousel of Progress (seasonal)

Epcot®
FUTURE WORLD
Imagination!: All Attractions
Innoventions East
Innoventions West
Mission: SPACE
Test Track
The Living Seas: All Attractions
The Land: All Attractions
Universe of Energy: "Ellen's Energy Adventure"
Wonders of Life: All Attractions (seasonal)

WORLD SHOWCASE
China: "Reflections of China"
France: "Impressions de France"
FriendShip Boats
Norway: Maelstrom
The American Adventure: "The American Adventure"

Disney-MGM Studios
Disney-MGM Studios Backlot Tour
Fantasmic!
Lights, Motors, Action!™ Extreme Stunt Show
Muppet*Vision 3D
Playhouse Disney - Live On Stage!
Rock 'n' Roller Coaster® Starring Aerosmith
Sounds Dangerous - Starring Drew Carey
Star Tours
The Great Movie Ride
The Magic of Disney Animation
"The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror™"
Voyage of the Little Mermaid
Walt Disney: One Man's Dream
Who Wants To Be A Millionaire - Play It!

Disney's Animal Kingdom® Theme Park
Caravan Stage: "Flights of Wonder"
DINOSAUR
Grandmother Willow's Grove: "Pocahontas and Her forest friends"
It's Tough To Be A Bug
Kali River Rapids
Kilimanjaro Safaris
Lion King Theater: "Festival of the Lion King"
Maharajah Jungle Trek
Primeval Whirl
Theater in the Wild: "Tarzan Rocks!"
The Boneyard
TriceraTop Spin

I wanted to add that Soarin' and EE are missing from the list. They are both Mainstream Access.
And, some attractions have limited number of spots for wheelchairs. We have already shown up for shows where there was still room for ambulatory people, but the wheelchair spots were already filled for that show and we had to wait for the next one (Voyage of the Little Mermaid, where we had Fastpasses; and ITTBAB, where the CMs were practically begging people to come into the queue because there was no wait in the standby line.