Poly DVC expansion coming 2024!

[HickoryDickory]

I think that is an important aspect of it. While I love love love RIV, I know that an MK resort DOES offer a whole new experience when MK is a big piece of your vacation. So, I do think that resale restrictions will be better received at a place like Poly than it is at RIV.

I'm one of those who is finding the resale restrictions far more palatable at a resort like Poly 2 over RIV. I've stayed at RIV before and it's a lovely resort I will stay at again in the future, but I've never felt a desire to own RIV. Especially not with the resale restrictions, but even in a theoretical unrestricted scenario RIV is a resort I would book only sometimes and with other points. Poly is a resort I love and have wanted to own there since inception, but I book 1 and 2 bedrooms so Poly 1 just doesn't work for me. Poly 2 is probably going to be what I've been wishing Poly 1 was (we'll see what happens when we get the details on resort amenities and room type/quantity/layout/features) and I'm finding that I am 100% ok with buying direct resale-restricted points the day it goes on sale and/or even buying a Poly 2 restricted resale. There aren't many resorts I'd be ok with always being stuck at, but Poly 2 (assuming in a satisfactory 1 or 2 bedroom villa) is somewhere I'd be willing to be stuck with restricted points. Although, I have multiple home resorts and SAP so Poly 2 still wouldn't be 100% of my stays.

 

[Frugal Fairy Tales]

I dislike the resale restrictions and would prefer to see them done away with. If Poly 2 is included in Poly 1's association then I will be thrilled to see a new resort included in the O-14(+) portfolio.

However, I don't really understand what I'm seeing in these threads with regards to so many Poly 1 owners feeling entitled to access to Poly 2 at the 11-month window, at least not until/unless DVC announces that Poly 2 will be under the Poly 1 association. BLT is one of my home resorts. The Comtemporary/BLT complex is another site rumored to potentially 'expand' one day with a BLT 2 tower. Whenever I've read those rumors I've never once assumed my BLT points could/should/would get home resort priority at a potential BLT 2 solely because it would be located on the same complex site.

Admittedly I'm not a Poly owner (yet! counting down to 2024) but I'm not irked at all by the idea of Poly 1 points potentially not having access to Poly 2 during the 11-month window. I consider Poly 1 and Poly 2 to be two separate resorts with their own booking windows. So within that narrow view I think Poly 2 should have its own association. It is only beacuse I don't like the resale restrictions that I hope Poly 2 is under Poly 1's association. My ultimate dream is resale restrictions are done away with entirely and Poly 2 has its own separate association.

You're not irked because you're not a Poly owner . And I agree it would be a dream come true to get rid of the resale restrictions!

 

[BeachClub2014]

One of the big discussions when RIV was announced is that it wasn't a great resort due to location and the restrictions. But, now you have an MK resort which many feel is a better location. So, could buyers forgo restrictions because it is where it is???

See, I think you are on to something here. We see a lot of varying opinions on resale restrictions and their impact on sales. I truly wonder if they have much impact at all, aside from a reasonably small group of die-hard DVC'ers. I think that there are a ton of variables to go into the purchase decision. We see those debated here all the time. Variables such as resort location, room size/configuration. deed expiration dates, resort theming, transportation options, vibe, resale potential, etc., etc.

To the "average" DVC buyer, do resale restrictions matter at all? Heck, the restrictions don't matter to many of us grizzled, die-hard DVC'ers and we bought direct.

I completely understand and respect the opinions of those who do place a lot of stock in the restrictions, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a much broader loss of sales for DVC.

 

[HickoryDickory]

You're not irked because you're not a Poly owner.

No, I'm not a Poly owner, which is why I relayed my thoughts relative to BLT where I am an owner and have a stake in any potential outcome. Just like Poly 2, BLT 2 is a long-rumored new tower which could be built on an existing complex with O-14 DVC and cash-booking buildings. It's a fair and personal comparison for me to use to weigh my thoughts on the Poly situation.

 

[tjkraz]

I'll be honest...I totally think it's the same association. There's a reason VGF2 is selling so fast and it's 3 words NO RESALE RESTRICTIONS.

How fast is it selling? The only hard data I'm aware of is that they sold 500 contracts for at least 62k points in about 30 hours...at prices lower than most people predicted and with the promise of free baggage for those who acted quickly.

 

[tjkraz]

I'm one of those who is finding the resale restrictions far more palatable at a resort like Poly 2 over RIV. I've stayed at RIV before and it's a lovely resort I will stay at again in the future, but I've never felt a desire to own RIV.

Now embrace the reality that there are people who feel just as much affection for Riviera as you do for Poly. You look at the Poly concept and think "wow, that's great; I really want to own there even if it means my points may someday sell for a little less." There are Riviera owners who have been thinking the same thing for the last 3 years.

 

[havoc315]

I agree but I also think they have a lot of options that don't have to follow all the previous patterns. Who figured 10 years ago we would see them come up with resale restrictions or a membership perks program only for those who buy X amount of points direct from DVD.

In this case, assuming its a new resort, I think they can decide to go for less than 50 years and match it to PVB. They can make it a 60 year lease, which allows a larger difference between current and new and help with how things expire.

Can they ask current owners of PVB to vote on changing the POS so that it becomes part of the new in exchange for resale restrictions?

There are so many different ways it can go. I think a lot of us were surprised to see them just roll in the BPK resort studios in the current VGF. Nothing they do, or will do, will surprise me at this point and for whatever reason, they did not commit to one or the other with the announcement so as you say, maybe they are still trying to figure it out all.

I just can't understand why they realized it now. I do have a theory on the name. They just updated the POS for VGF and once this is named, if may need to be included in that part that says don't buy as XYZ might not ever happen?

Well said. I think the critical point, as they say in investment, "past history is not a guarantee of future performance"

Just because DVC has operated a certain way in the past, or operates a certain way in the present, does not mean it can't change in the future. We've seen changes in the past. Some types of changes may be easier than others, but I wouldn't rule any out.
I think a good example is the OKW extension -- we know that was a disaster, few people purchased the extension, it became a legal mess. If it had gone smoothly, we might very well see similar extensions being offered at other 2042 resorts.

One constant we have seen, over time -- is further attempts to restrict the value of re-sale. Gradual loss of perks, gradual addition of restrictions. I would expect this to continue, but impossible to say exactly how re-sale may become more and more restricted. (ideally for Disney, they would want to depress the re-sale market enough so that people who want to give up their contracts just end up selling them back to Disney, who then turns around and flips it as a "direct" contract as "sold out resort" prices).

 

[Frugal Fairy Tales]

No, I'm not a Poly owner, which is why I relayed my thoughts relative to BLT where I am an owner and have a stake in any potential outcome. Just like Poly 2, BLT 2 is a long-rumored new tower which could be built on an existing complex with O-14 DVC and cash-booking buildings. It's a fair and personal comparison for me to use to weigh my thoughts on the Poly situation.

Respectfully, I don't see that as the same comparison, but we don't need to agree. I think one association at Poly is how DVC could complete the Poly DVC resort beyond studios and bungalows. It would be a fantastic resort for existing and new owners. I think new owners will buy. I think existing owners will add points. I predict the new Poly studios will be a little smaller than in the longhouses to differentiate the two types of studios (but not like RIV tower studios). And, I am looking at this from a poly-owner perspective (why wouldn't I?) but I wouldn't say I feel entitled. I'm going to root for the little guy, not DVC/Disney corporate. And, I hope you have full access to BLT2 if it happens.

 

[KTownRaider]

However, I don't really understand what I'm seeing in these threads with regards to so many Poly 1 owners feeling entitled to access to Poly 2 at the 11-month window, at least not until/unless DVC announces that Poly 2 will be under the Poly 1 association. BLT is one of my home resorts. The Comtemporary/BLT complex is another site rumored to potentially 'expand' one day with a BLT 2 tower. Whenever I've read those rumors I've never once assumed my BLT points could/should/would get home resort priority at a potential BLT 2 solely because it would be located on the same complex site.

As a fellow BLT owner, I completely concur with your sentiment that building a BLT2 tower with a separate association on the other side of the Contemporary (garden wing?) wouldn't bother me in the least. Partly, that's because (1) BLT1 still would technically be in a better location (slightly shorter walk to MK), and more importantly (2) because the room mix is already balanced with some of the best 1/2BD (extra bathroom for the win) on property IMHO.

Outside of point monster bungalows, I think the lack of larger Poly units (a reason I passed on Poly when buying into DVC) is seen by many current Poly owners a possible, much welcomed antidote to rounding out this studio heavy property. While every Poly owner knew what they were buying into, I can certainly understand the desire to want this new addition to be part of the same Poly association. Not sure or even optimistic it'll happen (DVC always looks out for #1-itself), but I'm hoping they'll get the decision they're seeking.

 

[DonMacGregor]

I mentioned earlier I was wondering if the style was intentionally transitional. Not quite full on poly themed but a light poly/Waikiki theme. I think the sight lines will be fine but I do hope it isn't too loud at VGF in 2023.

Well, the Moana Surfrider IS only about 100 yards from the Royal Hawaiian on Waikiki...LOL

 

[Frugal Fairy Tales]

As a fellow BLT owner, I completely concur with your sentiment that building a BLT2 tower with a separate association on the other side of the Contemporary (garden wing?) wouldn't bother me in the least. Partly, that's because (1) BLT1 still would technically be in a better location (slightly shorter walk to MK), and more importantly (2) because the room mix is already balanced with some of the best 1/2BD (extra bathroom for the win) on property IMHO.

Outside of point monster bungalows, I think the lack of larger Poly units (a reason I passed on Poly when buying into DVC) is seen by many current Poly owners a possible, much welcomed antidote to rounding out this studio heavy property. While every Poly owner knew what they were buying into, I can certainly understand the desire to want this new addition to be part of the same Poly association. Not sure or even optimistic it'll happen (DVC always looks out for #1-itself), but I'm hoping they'll get the decision they're seeking.

Yes, this exactly. And, yes we knew about lots of studios. No, we did not know they might add a separate association at Poly with the full variety of inventory that could potentially wipe out the attractiveness and value of Poly 1 if we ever wanted to sell. Still hoping for one association.

 

[DduzDis]

If Poly2 is a new association with resale restrictions, I would probably buy more resale points and skip a direct purchase entirely. I've had good luck using my Poly contract as SAP. I also love the current Poly studios. I'd rather own points that can be resold without restrictions if I ever need to sell, and it seems that the appetite for studios is only increasing. Poly1 has plenty of those, and really nice ones at that. I see the expansion as win either way. If it is part of the same association, I can book 1BR and larger rooms with a home resort advantage and still stay at my beloved Poly. If it is a new association with resale restrictions, I won't stay in those rooms, but I can still enjoy whatever new amenities it adds to the resort, and use my Poly points as SAP if I want a bigger room.

My only concern is if the new tower joins the existing association and also increases our dues significantly. That would stink.

I agree with all of this. We bought for the longhouse studios for shorter trips to festivals and MK parties. I don't have a need for 1brs at the Poly. Now that they have the murphy bed we are good to go in these studios for a long time.

 

[Royal Consort]

Now embrace the reality that there are people who feel just as much affection for Riviera as you do for Poly. You look at the Poly concept and think "wow, that's great; I really want to own there even if it means my points may someday sell for a little less." There are Riviera owners who have been thinking the same thing for the last 3 years.

Which returns to the idea that DVC provides varied options for different tastes. I tend to think MK resorts will do better on the resale market due to the presence of the park. We passed on the initial PVB direct. My contrarian view is the Poly looks old and I don't love the kitsch theme. Riviera was definitely to our taste. Over time I think Riviera will come to be loved as a staple of WDW. It just takes a while for experiences and memories to mount.

 

[Nabas]

I’m with you on this. New resort, new association, I‘m in. But if I have to compete with a trillion pre-existing Poly owners for 24 one bedrooms at 11 months, it’s just not worth it. DVC isn’t building this to benefit Poly resale owners, and I don’t think there’s any doubt that it will sell with whatever restrictions are attached, as will DLT. Also, Disney is in the early stages of implementing resale restrictions. They’re playing the long game, and I doubt they’re going to stop right when they’re getting started.

Right, but this depends on how Disney wants to market the resort. It's (mostly) about generating sales, with existing Poly owners not really part of the equation. It's (mostly) about what potential new owners will want.

What will be more attractive to new buyers? Will new owners want the opportunity to book an over-the-water bungalow at 11 months?

If Disney thinks this will help sell the new resort, then it makes sense to make this new resort part of PVB (Polynesian Villas & Bungalows).

 

[Nabas]

See, I think you are on to something here. We see a lot of varying opinions on resale restrictions and their impact on sales. I truly wonder if they have much impact at all, aside from a reasonably small group of die-hard DVC'ers. I think that there are a ton of variables to go into the purchase decision. We see those debated here all the time. Variables such as resort location, room size/configuration. deed expiration dates, resort theming, transportation options, vibe, resale potential, etc., etc.

To the "average" DVC buyer, do resale restrictions matter at all? Heck, the restrictions don't matter to many of us grizzled, die-hard DVC'ers and we bought direct.

I completely understand and respect the opinions of those who do place a lot of stock in the restrictions, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a much broader loss of sales for DVC.

I completely agree with this.

Except for us diehards who discuss DVC almost every day, I don't think resale restrictions have much effect on direct buyers, who are Disney's target market.

After all, booking restrictions affect resale buyers, and I just don't think most direct buyers buy with the intention of selling. Some eventually do, but I think most buy into the "magical" sales pitch of a lifetime of WDW vacations. So most RIV direct buyers simply don't care about resale restrictions.

 

[tjkraz]

Just because DVC has operated a certain way in the past, or operates a certain way in the present, does not mean it can't change in the future.

While that's true, there's much higher success rate predicting that DVC will continue to operate as it has in the past, as opposed to speculating that they'll suddenly choose to do things differently this time.

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

How fast is it selling? The only hard data I'm aware of is that they sold 500 contracts for at least 62k points in about 30 hours...at prices lower than most people predicted and with the promise of free baggage for those who acted quickly.

Yes, please, data! So many unsubstantiated claims float around these sites. We will see how RVA and VGF sales fare against each other once the pent up demand for VGF subsides.

Respectfully, I don't see that as the same comparison, but we don't need to agree. I think one association at Poly is how DVC could complete the Poly DVC resort beyond studios and bungalows. It would be a fantastic resort for existing and new owners. I think new owners will buy. I think existing owners will add points. I predict the new Poly studios will be a little smaller than in the longhouses to differentiate the two types of studios (but not like RIV tower studios). And, I am looking at this from a poly-owner perspective (why wouldn't I?) but I wouldn't say I feel entitled. I'm going to root for the little guy, not DVC/Disney corporate. And, I hope you have full access to BLT2 if it happens.

Well said. Root for the little guy! I do, too, while acknowledging that DVC wouldn't be doing anything wrong if they decide to make Poly2 a new association

 

[tjkraz]

Except for us diehards to discuss DVC almost every day, I don't think resale restrictions have much effect on direct buyers, who are Disney's target market.

I'll go one step further and speculate that overall they provide a boost to sales, giving the salesperson the ability to tell prospective owners "you can only access the entire program if you buy direct from me." That's certainly the desired impact, and it's a philosophy which has been adopted widely enough to suggest that other timeshare systems see it as a net positive.

The run-of-the-mill prospect taking a DVC tour during their WDW trip isn't going to connect the dots and conclude that resale restrictions could be harmful down the road. Some will realize it and it still doesn't influence their decision.

This could be our truest test of all. For months some people have been pounding on Riviera sales, claiming the only reason things have slowed are the resale restrictions while disregarding...other factors. If Poly2 happens as a second association w/ restrictions, I hope it closes the book on whether or not DVC views the result as a positive or a negative.

 

[Nabas]

Yes, please, data! So many unsubstantiated claims float around these sites. We will see how RVA and VGF sales fare against each other once the pent up demand for VGF subsides.

DVCNews.com publishes direct sales data every month. Pre-COVID, Riviera sales were doing as well as any other recent DVC resort, suggesting the new resale restrictions were having little to no impact on direct sales. Post-COVID, Riviera sales have been weak, although until recently, WDW attendance also was down. (This is very important when considering direct sales, since most are making their direct sales purchase while visiting WDW.)

Here's a graph of the data they have published to date:



The next month's sales data should be interesting.

 

[BeachClub2014]

I'll go one step further and speculate that overall they provide a boost to sales, giving the salesperson the ability to tell prospective owners "you can only access the entire program if you buy direct from me."

That philosophy worked on us. My guide didn't say the words but we purchased our RIV points direct from DVC in order to ensure access to everything, both now and in the future.