Police called to School on 5 year-old's tantrum

[hambirg]

I have to respectfully disagree here. I work in a preschool in a poor urban school district (very crime-ridden and poverty filled city). I work primarily with students with autism, some who require two-person physical interventions & even in some of those incidences, staff have gotten hurt by the child.

But even some of our quote-unquote peers have been known to be quite violent (emotionally dysfunctional little guys who come from very dysfunctional living situations) and I have seen my principal and a teacher have to restrain a student or get physically harmed by a student on more than one occasion. Sad but true.

Last year I had a student who was mis-diagnosed at age 6 with autism-turned out he had very severe bi-polar disorder. He required 3 people to escort him or physically restrain him. Lots of staff got injured that year.

Now, we would NEVER call the police on any of these children. We may have called their parents to pick them up~some parents will come, but many do not because they don't have transportation or some just don't want to be bothered, in which case we de-escalate as best we can & if we are unsuccessful and the child is still violent we WILL call 911 in extreme situations. But otherwise, where I work, it is our jobs to work together and formulate a behavior plan to implement for the child- for both our autism students and our quote-unquote peers.

I know my situation is far more extreme than the kid in this article, but I just wanted people to be aware that there is definitely such thing as a violent (to the point of very dangerous) five year old!!!

I work in a public school. Maybe this school in the article was private and they don't have the staff or knowledge to handle the child effectively.

I've been there too. I've worked with emotionally disturbed kiddos. .. and high school age autistic kids. Hey. . .duck and cover! BUT you are not really disagreeing with the PP. If you are not properly trained or know how to properly deal with these kinds of situations (ie. proper restraining techniques, how to secure a classroom and protect the other students) then you have NO place working with these kinds of students. I DO know what it is like. . .I GET that most people don't understand. BUT I still think this situation was nuts! Teaching these types of students isn't my niche. . .BUT I do know how to do it. I prefer severely disabled students. . .I like feeding, toileting, tube feeding and administering PT. . .if you don't or can't then move on.

This situation particularly bothers me, because you have a teacher who is obviously not properly trained for her job and an administrator that is CLEARLY not even remotely qualified for theirs.

 

[TheDisneyGirl02]

So.... What, this kid continued to assault others because somebody didn't want to do some paperwork????

I don't think I am mistaken here that in most any State/District schools have the right to immediately suspend any student for up to 3 days.
During this time, the student can be suspended further, and/or expelled, after review.

If some 'procedure' and paperwork are just too much...??????????

I would hate to see the day when a teacher who didn't like a kid, or had a personality conflict with a kid, or just couldn't handle them because of basic learning disabilities could 'expell' a kid without review. And, I would never, ever, agree that it should be THAT easy. (is that what you are suggesting?)

But, come ON.... The fact is that a kid simply does NOT walk back into a school if administrators agree with expulsion, or placement in a specialized environment.
That would not happen until after the parents won grievance and appeal after appeal.

I had a kid in special ed because of some bona-fide learning disabilities (NOT behavioral)
I know the drill....
The schools have the right to do as they wish.
A parent can only look in from the outside and appeal.

If out of control students (or teachers who are simply unable to maintain adequate control) are in the classrooms,
there is simply nowhere else to place the blame except for the school system.

OK...wait a second. Where did I say a child should be expelled after one incident, because of paperwork and where did I say that a teacher has much say in the matter? You stated this in a previous post.

Child injures another child...
Child suspended immediately for 3 days... (whether they are classified as special needs or not)
Child expelled upon review.
That easy.

It is up to the child's parents to pursue grievance if they want their child allowed back into that regular classroom.

You are the one who stated that it's that 'easy' to have a violent kid expelled, not me. I was just pointing out the fact that there is paperwork involved and nothing in life ever just happens without a paper trail.

You also said:

I would hate to see the day when a teacher who didn't like a kid, or had a personality conflict with a kid, or just couldn't handle them because of basic learning disabilities could 'expell' a kid without review. And, I would never, ever, agree that it should be THAT easy. (is that what you are suggesting?)

My dad and sister are learning support teachers - why in the world would they want to 'expell' a kid because of a learning disability? What I was trying to say in my post was that if a child is only violent towards the teacher, would you, as a parent, want that violent child out of the classroom or wouldn't it matter because it didn't involve your child?

As far as your last paragraph, I respectfully disagree with you. It's not that teachers are dainty little angels anymore that can't handle children, it's the rules that have been placed on them that make it hard.

Believe it or not, the school truly only has the child 6-7 hours a day - the rest of the time that child is at home where his/her parents are in charge of raising them. The blame in this situation may be on both sides of the fence, but that is something that we will never know for sure.

 

[torinsmom]

Yes. . and he was 5 and you are an adult. . .supposedly trained in child psychology and development and learning. Teaching is NOT easy. . .nobody ever said it was. If you can't do it then don't! I worked 8+ years with big, high school age kids that didn't even have the mental capacity to understand that they were assaulting you. So!!!! You either deal with it or you don't. I heard accounting is a nice field.

Being trained in child psychology(at least the amount of that you get as an undergraduate education student) does not adequately train you to deal with a child who is violent. The district also does not train teachers to do restraint and these children DO need to be restrained. A normal tantrum I can and do deal with. A child who is throwing chairs, kicking everyone in sight and totally in a rage is a whole different story. Everyone in the room is in danger, and administration needs to deal with the child. They have been trained in restraint, and can take the child to a safe environment.

Of course, teaching is not easy. Only people who are not teachers seem to think it is. I never said I didn't love my job. I just think some people are confusing normal tantrums or outbursts for the behavior a bipolar or oppositional defiant child can display. I teach these kids, no problem. I will NOT be continuously hurt or have the other students in danger. We are asked to call the office when these incidents occur and let those who have lots MORE training deal with things. If they call the police, that is their choice.

Oh, and getting kicked or hit so hard you are bruised is not part of a teacher's job. I could have filed charges, and I probably would have if things had continued to be that violent.

 

[hambirg]

Being trained in child psychology(at least the amount of that you get as an undergraduate education student) does not adequately train you to deal with a child who is violent. The district also does not train teachers to do restraint and these children DO need to be restrained. A normal tantrum I can and do deal with. A child who is throwing chairs, kicking everyone in sight and totally in a rage is a whole different story. Everyone in the room is in danger, and administration needs to deal with the child. They have been trained in restraint, and can take the child to a safe environment.

Of course, teaching is not easy. Only people who are not teachers seem to think it is. I never said I didn't love my job. I just think some people are confusing normal tantrums or outbursts for the behavior a bipolar or oppositional defiant child can display. I teach these kids, no problem. I will NOT be continuously hurt or have the other students in danger. We are asked to call the office when these incidents occur and let those who have lots MORE training deal with things. If they call the police, that is their choice.

Oh, and getting kicked or hit so hard you are bruised is not part of a teacher's job. I could have filed charges, and I probably would have if things had continued to be that violent.

I understand what you are saying. In the district I taught in we were required to take MANDT training. I agree that sometimes restraining is necessary. I'm not really disagreeing with you.

I just think in this situation that calling the police is too much. . .it's overkill and what does it really accomplish? What are the police going to do? Pepper spray him? Taze him? Arrest him? Even if that particular teacher doesn't have adequate training or experience there are many that do. She should be using those resources available to her to help this child. Two adults can restrain or remove a violent 5yr old. The school psych should be called in. It sounds like this student should be in a EBD classroom where there are trained professionals that can help him. And I agree that the admin should deal with this. But calling the police on a 5yr old I don't think serves any purpose.

Just as an aside, my Dad was a HS teacher. I do think it would be perfectly acceptable to call the police and to press charges if a HS age student assaulted a teacher. It does happen.

 

[okeydokey]

I never said it was OK

I said that the police didn't need to called

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one

If the school and the teachers can't or won't do anything about it, what should they do?

 

[woodkins]

Being trained in child psychology(at least the amount of that you get as an undergraduate education student) does not adequately train you to deal with a child who is violent. The district also does not train teachers to do restraint and these children DO need to be restrained. A normal tantrum I can and do deal with. A child who is throwing chairs, kicking everyone in sight and totally in a rage is a whole different story. Everyone in the room is in danger, and administration needs to deal with the child. They have been trained in restraint, and can take the child to a safe environment.

Of course, teaching is not easy. Only people who are not teachers seem to think it is. I never said I didn't love my job. I just think some people are confusing normal tantrums or outbursts for the behavior a bipolar or oppositional defiant child can display. I teach these kids, no problem. I will NOT be continuously hurt or have the other students in danger. We are asked to call the office when these incidents occur and let those who have lots MORE training deal with things. If they call the police, that is their choice.

Oh, and getting kicked or hit so hard you are bruised is not part of a teacher's job. I could have filed charges, and I probably would have if things had continued to be that violent.

Many good points here. Also keep in mind calling authorities is for many resons including teacher protection. While teaching I was bitten by a child who was a foster child born to a drug addicted mother. The child was in mainstream first grade (although 8 yrs old) and imagine my dismay when I learned that I had no right to now any of her medical history due to HIPA privacy laws. That child could be hiv positive etc & I have no right to know it.

 

[torinsmom]

I understand what you are saying. In the district I taught in we were required to take MANDT training. I agree that sometimes restraining is necessary. I'm not really disagreeing with you.

I just think in this situation that calling the police is too much. . .it's overkill and what does it really accomplish? What are the police going to do? Pepper spray him? Taze him? Arrest him? Even if that particular teacher doesn't have adequate training or experience there are many that do. She should be using those resources available to her to help this child. Two adults can restrain or remove a violent 5yr old. The school psych should be called in. It sounds like this student should be in a EBD classroom where there are trained professionals that can help him. And I agree that the admin should deal with this. But calling the police on a 5yr old I don't think serves any purpose.

Just as an aside, my Dad was a HS teacher. I do think it would be perfectly acceptable to call the police and to press charges if a HS age student assaulted a teacher. It does happen.

I can pretty much guarantee that the teacher didn't call the police on the child. We don't have the authority to do that. Even if a child is severely injured, the office is the one who calls. We don't have school psychologist; we have a guidance counselor, and she tries to help. The police has never been called on a child for behavior as far as I know. We don't know the whole story, but maybe the parents refused to come and calling the police was the next step for THAT? Police coming does not mean they had direct contact with the student.

It takes a lot of time and paperwork to get a child into a special class. There is a child in the class next to us that needs to be put in the special preschool at another school. He has severe developmental disabilities and is terribly disruptive, so much so that he is only there from 10am-noon. The teachers have documented everything, but now the hold-up is that he needs glasses and they can't do anything until they get them. The state is providing them and it has been 4 weeks already. The one we have, we had to document, document, document. We have had a behavior support person in our classroom for 4 weeks and the child has been on a modified schedule. Thank goodness, things have improved some. He still has "fits" occasionally, but hasn't hit me since the third week of school. Now, he can still kill me with his eyes!