Points transfer restrictions?

[JimMIA]

I'm not sure this is the proper forum for this question, but can anyone tell me what the limitations/restrictions are on transferring points between DVC accounts?

Secondly, are the restrictions the same for transferring between two accounts owned by the same owner?

TIA

 

[Beca]

Hi Jim,

Points transfers work like this. You can have unlimited transfers to an account, but only ONE direction during a UY. If you transfer out of one account, you cannot transfer points into that account until the uy has ended.

The rules are no different for two accounts by the same owner.

You DO have it going on...you figured out that trick pretty quickly!!!! I got "flamed" for figuring that one out and posting about it a few months ago. People do not like that owners who have two separate memberships can do that.



Beca

 

[ColoradoBelle1]

So if I had 100 OKW points and you had 1000 BCV points (I know that will make you smile BECA!) are you saying that you could transfer points to my OKW account as often as you want during a use year, but could then have no points transferred into you account by anyone.

How are these 'transferred' points treated?
1. Do they remain 'BCV' points and can I then use them at 11 months to make a ressie at BCV?
2. Or, do they become OKW points and I can use them at 11 mo tomake a ressie at OKW?
3. Or do transfer points have a 'stigmata' attached in some way.
4. Can tranferred points from a Feb 2005 use year be banked?

Sorry...so many questions, so little mind.
Colorado Belle

 

[Beca]

So if I had 100 OKW points and you had 1000 BCV points (I know that will make you smile BECA!) are you saying that you could transfer points to my OKW account as often as you want during a use year, but could then have no points transferred into you account by anyone.

How are these 'transferred' points treated?
1. Do they remain 'BCV' points and can I then use them at 11 months to make a ressie at BCV?
2. Or, do they become OKW points and I can use them at 11 mo tomake a ressie at OKW?
3. Or do transfer points have a 'stigmata' attached in some way.
4. Can tranferred points from a Feb 2005 use year be banked?

Sorry...so many questions, so little mind.
Colorado Belle

Too funny!!! You KNOW how much I would like that!!!!

To answer your questions:

1) Per our contract, points transferred "retain" their home resort. But, in reality, they do not. If I transferred BCV points into your OKW account, they would "become" OKW points. This is supposed to be changed soon.

2) I think 1) actually answered that.

3) The only "stigma" transferred points have, is that they do retain their original uy (although, someone...I think tjkraz...said this did not happen with him). I have been involved with two transfers, and each time they did retain their uy.

4) Yes...here is the most "twisty" thing to follow....transferred points can be banked, but banked or borrowed points cannot be transferred.



Beca

 

[JimMIA]

So Beca could transfer 100 points INTO my account, and Colorado Belle could transfer 100 INTO my account, and a dozen other people could transfer points INTO my account -- but I couldn't transfer OUT during that use year, right?

I understand about the use year and will assume that they retain their original use year unless DVC decides to change that.

 

[Beca]

So Beca could transfer 100 points INTO my account, and Colorado Belle could transfer 100 INTO my account, and a dozen other people could transfer points INTO my account -- but I couldn't transfer OUT during that use year, right?

I understand about the use year and will assume that they retain their original use year unless DVC decides to change that.

Yes, you are correct.



Beca

 

[disneyberry]

[SIZE="+0"]Jim, just in case you want any more details, take a look at the thread linked in my sig. Be warned, it's a huge list, and I haven't double checked to see if any rules have changed since early 2004. Also some things can depend on how knowledgeable the CM you talk to is.

(BTW, this seems less a Community topic, and more a regular DVC topic.)[/SIZE]

 

[Greysword]

Beca's reply to one owner having two accounts made me curious about this action. What does having two accounts do for someone? Why is it good to transfer between them? Why is this frowned upon? How does someone get two accounts (and how is it prevented)?

A newbie thanks for you!

 

[ColoradoBelle1]

Greyword: I think if you buy into DVC and then decide you want more points...you would have two contracts unless they were the same use year and same resort.
The RULES state that there is much more leeway if you are just transferring between yourself and the contracts you personally own.

Disneyberry: thanks for linking us to the RULES and the subsequent variations of the rules.

Re #9: there can be no financial gain in the transfer: the rules state that the transferring party is responsible for the maintenance fees of those transferred points. It seems that if I wanted to transfer some BCV points to Beca, that she would at least reimburse me for the maintenance fees on those points..but the rules seem to indicate that if she did, we woud be breaking the rules. Is that assumption right?

So...if I didn't need to use the 11 month window for my BWV home resort..I could transfer some points to someone who did need that 11 month window and they could remind the system, until it is fixed, that the rules say that the
borrower could use the 11month priority booking. HMMMMM.

 

[Happy Birthday Cat]

Beca's reply to one owner having two accounts made me curious about this action. What does having two accounts do for someone? Why is it good to transfer between them? Why is this frowned upon? How does someone get two accounts (and how is it prevented)?

The rules state you can only transfer "In" or "Out" during a year. If you have two accounts, you can do both. Use one account to transfer points in and another to transfer points out of. With less stringent rules for transfering between your own accounts, it could lead to someone taking advantage of the system for financial gains.

HBC

 

[magicalmcwho]

Beca,

Why do members get mad about those who have two accounts? Everyone can do this if they puchase contracts with differnt UY's.


Jim.

 

[disneyberry]

[SIZE=+0]ColoradoBelle1, I think that drusba had posted a comment on that Points Transfer 101 thread explaining what she believed to be the reason why it's been okay for members to transfer points to each other for payment. I can't remember exactly what drusba wrote. Let me go pull up the quote.

Okay, found the quote:

You need to wade through the legalese to truly understand number 9:

1. It does not prohibit renting when there is no physical transfer of points from one account to another, i.e., you can use your points to make a ressie in another's name.

2. Points are legally deemed to have no intrinsic value but merely represent your actual ownership interest in the the property. Thus, legally you cannot actually give a dollar value to the points.

3. Nevertheless, you can still do a rental via a transfer. All you need to do is agree to rent the property interest represented by the points and then simply agree to complete that rental transcation by transfering points. Thus, legally you have not officially given the points a dollar value but instead the compensation applies to the rental of the property interest. A purpose of the clause is to assure Disney, who actually carries out the transfer of points, cannot be sued for any money based on the value of points transfered if something goes wrong with the rental.

4. Clause 9 and all its predecessors from the beginning of DVC is carefully worded to prohibit compensation for "engaging in any transfer activity." It is designed mainly to prevent someone from setting up a profit making business as a broker for the transfer of points who would be "engaging in transfer activity" for compensation.

Also, please keep in mind that only the TOP portion of my old post is actually from the written rules in the Public Offering Statement. The second half of that post are GUIDELINES, and are not always the case.[/SIZE]

 

[JimMIA]

The system is certainly doing a heckuva job! There's at least one owner on Ebay who is running a travel agency on his points. Either he's got a million, or he's buying/transferring/whatevering.

Not that I mind, actually. My entrepreneural soul makes me lean toward using the points you own however you like, as long as it doesn't hurt the other owners. These particular restrictions are obviously designed to protect CRO, not the individual owners.

On the other hand, you could argue quite sensibily that abiding by all the rules benefits us all, so I guess I really feel very strongly both ways! It's tough to be schizo...

 

[Greysword]

As a follow-up:

So if I have 50 points in BCV and 200 points at SSR, then I can transfer the 200 SSR points into BCV to take advantage of the 11 month window, right?

I guess this depends on how DVC views the points. Beca said they would change to BCV points, where it has also been mentioned (by ColoradoBelle for one) that the points transfered retain their home resort.

Thoughts?

 

[littlestar]

I've had BWV points transferred to me three times in the last six months and they have ALWAYS kept their BWV home resort status, otherwise I could not have used the booking window to make the reservations I have made. It usually takes a couple of days for them to show up in my account, but I've never had the transfered BWV points lose their home resort status.

 

[Happy Birthday Cat]

I've had BWV points transferred to me three times in the last six months and they have ALWAYS kept their BWV home resort status, otherwise I could not have used the booking window to make the reservations I have made. It usually takes a couple of days for them to show up in my account, but I've never had the transfered BWV points lose their home resort status.

What is your home resort and/or what resort contract did you have them transfered into? If you don't have a BWV contract, you (or the transferer) must have given very clear directions to MS during the transfer.

I had BCV points transfered into my VWL contract and they became VWL. I had to jump through a few DVC hoops to get them rerstored to their original resort.

HBC

 

[Happy Birthday Cat]

As a follow-up:

So if I have 50 points in BCV and 200 points at SSR, then I can transfer the 200 SSR points into BCV to take advantage of the 11 month window, right?

I guess this depends on how DVC views the points. Beca said they would change to BCV points, where it has also been mentioned (by ColoradoBelle for one) that the points transfered retain their home resort.

Thoughts?

No you couldn't because DVC knows what they were originally. In the past however transfered points into your account from a third party have taken on the identity of the contract they are transfered into. This isn't the case when it's one individual with 2 separate home resorts.

Points that are transfered are supposed to retain their home resort. I have personally had a situation where they did not. I'm sure there have been cases where they have.

HBC

 

[Beca]

Points that are transfered are supposed to retain their home resort. I have personally had a situation where they did not. I'm sure there have been cases where they have.

HBC

Interesting....it's not that I don't believe you (because you are VERY knowledgeable on this stuff), but that is not what my guide said would happen.



Beca

 

[Happy Birthday Cat]

Interesting....it's not that I don't believe you (because you are VERY knowledgeable on this stuff), but that is not what my guide said would happen.

Beca,

I didn't believe it either until it happened. It wasn't supposed to happen but it did because that wasn't what anyone told me would happen or what was written in DVC literature.

We needed more points for a trip that we wanted to take to the BCV with family members. We found a very nice Dis Board member to transfer us her BCV points. I never realized that they would be transfered into my "master contract" which is the VWL.

I called later to make the BCV reservations and was told I didn't have enough points and would have to wait until 7 months. What!!!!!! It took a couple more calls and a discussion with a manager for it to be fixed and the points to be put under my BCV contract. They were all very nice and helpful, it's just that MS didn't have the authority to do what I needed to have done. I needed a "suit".

I haven't rented points for transfer since then but if I do, I will follow the advice of the manager who told me to give the specific contract number I want them placed into, otherwise they will go under the master contract and could lose it's original identity. Notice I said "could". This is what I was told.

It all worked out in the end but I always warn people of this situation. I also realize that the situation until fixed could be subject to abuse.

HBC

 

[disneyberry]

[SIZE=+0]Beca, DVC's system seems to sometimes follow the written rules, and sometimes not. I don't really understand how a system can be inconsistent, but that's what the member experiences on this board seem to indicate.

For example, my experience when I had some BCV points transferred to me was that the BCV points kept their original use year, but after they were put into my account, they "became" BWV points.

Then we've had other members report that when they got points transferred in, the points kept their original Home Resort, but then lost the original UY and "took on" the UY of the transferee.

It just doesn't make any sense. But the important thing for people to keep in mind is that OFFICIALLY, transferred points should retain both their original Home Resort and their original Use Year. So, even if it ends up wrong in the system, you should be able to argue to have it corrected to follow the written rules.

Now, the UY overlapping thing is a whole other thing... plus everything gets all wacky when you bank your transferred points. [/SIZE]