Points for Disney Collection 2002

[Dean]

Originally posted by kem330
I'm really confused here- by requiring higher points for the resorts, doesn't that mean that dvc has to pay more for you to transfer? Doesn't that make it harder for them to recoup their expense? Or is it the other way around? Does it mean that dvc still pays the same to the resorts, but keeps more of our points to rent out?

No, it just means they'll have more points to rent out at your expense. DVC actually pays the other resorts cash, a predetermined discounted rack rate. Probably more than anyone else pays at that resort the entire year.

 

[PamOKW]

When we went through the AK pass problem....DVC being the only passholder that was not offered any way to upgrade their pass to include AK...I used to sit and watch the DVC promotion on "Disney TV". There was a line about "being family". I would always yell back, "Yeah, the black sheep." I'm beginning to feel that way again.

 

[PamOKW]

1/01/02 and 01/02/02: SV: 60 / WV:70 / Concierge: 96/night

Kem330 -- Just checking whether it's 60 points for one night or for two nights (30 per night)?

 

[DebbieB]

IMHO, increasing the points required for the Disney Collection hotels and the CC may actually be in the best interests of the majority of DVC members. My assumption is that most of us would rather have our annual dues stay the same or decrease.

I don't think dues has anything to do with this. Dues pay for the operation of your home resort, not costs of members trading out. If DVC makes more money on trades, it goes to their bottom line, not to lower dues. The only time dues come into play is when DVC rents breakage rooms (points rooms left 60 days or less before arrival). Speaking of dues though, with all the price increases Disney has been doing lately, I'm concerned what the dues will be for next year. DVC takes a "management fee" as part of the dues and they could stick us there and add some $$$ to their bottom line. Dues have been steady or slightly lower the past couple years, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them go up next year. DVC has us right where they want us, the resorts are selling out faster than they can build, so their attitude is "take it or leave it".

 

[kem330]

Hi Pam! Yes it was 60 points per night!! I just about fell over. You're right about black sheep- I'm starting to feel like the poor relation. You all have seen a lot more erosion of benefits than I have, but in 6 short months, we've seen increased restrictions on pool hopping, triple digit inflation on Disney Collection, increases in DCL, decreased hours of operation, reduced staff, etc. I sure am having second thoughts on an add on at BCV. I can probably stay there cheaper on discount codes or AP rates .

 

[DVCDAVE]

DEBBIEB--- Quote-"Dues have been steady or slightly lower the past couple years, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them go up next year. DVC has us right where they want us, the resorts are selling out faster than they can build, so their attitude is "take it or leave it".

You left out "or stick it"

 

[DVCDAVE]

Does everyone understand that this move by DVC will affect our resale values !!!!!???? If you don't think so, think twice. A major incentive has now been render almost useless !! If that doesn't affect the resale value, I don't know what will. We will all go to bed a little bit poorer tonight because of this.

 

[gray]

Okay, you guys are scaring me! DH and I had just about decided to take the plunge with DVC. Would you advise me to reconsider this decision in light of the recent point increases?

 

[DVCDAVE]

Honestly, knowing what I know now, and Disney's LACK of honesty and forthrightness, I wouldn't buy DVC. I wish I never bought DVC. Frankly, I paid $67 per point, and I don't even think it is worth half that now that they just about did away with any possibility of doing a Disney Collection exchange.

Don't walk away from DVC, RUN !!!!

 

[kem330]

Gray, Sorry for all the negativity, it's just frustrating to see the erosion of the fringe benefits of DVC. I purchased because I don't mind using points to stay at hotels for a little variety and flexibility- it was still cheaper than paying discounted room rates. Now it's not. Being able to use points at a "reasonable" point cost insured I could still go to Disney if DVC resorts were full. You have to look at this from your particular situation. Do you plan on using points primarily for stays at DVC resorts? If so than you should be okay. Also if you travel at off season - I think hotel exchange rates will be more reasonable then. For some of us the exchanges were a very important benefit- in fact I don't think we'd have bought without them. But for others they are completely irrelevant. Good Luck!

 

[prplcrzy]

With the size and comfort difference between the hotels and the DVC resorts, why would you want to stay at one of the hotels? I never thought it was a good value before and sounds like a worse one now.

Just curious, has anyone called their guide or MS and asked why such a huge increase in these point values?

 

[RobDoc]

Does everyone understand that this move by DVC will affect our resale values !!!!!????

Just curious why you would feel that DVC has any responsibility or obligation to maintain resale values. In fact, they have already artificially maintained resale values by the right-of-refusal clause. Resale prices have benefitted from this practice for several years now.

Raising Disney Collection point costs is more likely a means to offer a more stable means to recoup the cost of the exchange itself. With the availability this year, it appears that DVC resorts have many unused rooms- as evidenced by the AP and DC discounts . Many of these rooms are available due to points used for non-DVC resort reservations. DVC still has to pay the other resorts and unless a sufficient number of those points can be used for cash rentals, there may be a shortfall. Raising the points needed allows a more comfortable margin to cover the expense.

Advice on this board has always suggested that the best use of DVC points is at DVC resorts. This would appear to confirm that recommendation.

 

[Terry S]

I am a prospective new member (when BCV opens) and you guys are all definately making me think twice or even three times!!!! Most eveything I have read on this board has been so positive. But, if this is going to be the way of the future, I can probably just keep using my AP rate. It also makes me wonder.... what next?????

 

[chris1gill]

You have to think, why are you buying DVC points? Are you planning to PRIMARILY stay at the DVC Villa's? If so, don't worry about this discussion... I think it's fair to say, that overall DVC'ers don't typically use the Disney Collections resorts... The only time I can think of that I would use it, is a last minute trip where there is no DVC availability...

I don't exactly think this is fair, but if you guys are planning to buy & stay at the DVC resorts, you have little to worry about...

As for our resale values... last time I checked, a lot of people want to stay at BW & OKW... They'd pay for a resale with or without the Disney Collection.....

 

[TheWho]

My question: Since more DVC members will not be booking at non-DVC resorts at WDW , will that make the 11 month window even more critical? It sounds like DVC members will be forced to stay at DVC resorts only, probably their own resort.

I actually try a different resort at the begining of each DVC stay(2 nights), but always pay cash since I thought the points were too high. Now, they're really too high!!

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by Terry S
I am a prospective new member (when BCV opens) and you guys are all definately making me think twice or even three times!!!! Most eveything I have read on this board has been so positive. But, if this is going to be the way of the future, I can probably just keep using my AP rate. It also makes me wonder.... what next?????

I can't speak for everyone else but to me the DC has never had any real value so this wouldn't change my perspective a bit. Were I looking at resale currently, this would not even cause me to pause. Anyone that Buys DVC other than to use the points mostly at a DVC resort, is throwing money away and that is their prerogative. Some want to know they've paid for their vacation even if technically one option is more expensive, and this is ok for them.

If a person wants to join DVC and wants to do cruises and the like, buy less points and save up some money to pay cash for the other items. You have much more flexibility and will almost certainly end up cheaper in the long run IN EVERY SCENARIO. The only exception I can think of would be for those where buying DVC is still a good idea and couldn't use up 150 points consistently or if one got a great resale deal which could change the cost number dramatically.

I don't see this changing the availability one bit for members. Remember those points given up aren't available to members. It might change the rooms available for rent to non owners and discounts available at DVC resorts.

 

[DVCDAVE]

DOC & CHRISSGILL. While I agree with you on certain points like DVC not being responsible for resale value. I adamently believe that the Disney Collection has, in the past enhanced the DVC program. There are many owners , me included, who bought in to DVC with the comfort of knowing that, IF they couldn't get a DVC room in their planned vacation time, they could always book a room at one of the Disney Collection resorts. Buy esculating the point schedule in such a dramatic fashion, Disney has in affect closed that program for all except the economicly blind. As for offsetting costs of the exchange program, I simply can't believe. or accept that explaination, as the program had seemed to work so well for the past 10 years with little or no change until now. Disney, if lossing money during those years, would have certainly done something much sooner had the program been the economic disaster that would have justified such a dramatic exculation in point costs. We weren't born yesterday, we should be able to recognize a gouge when we see one, and this is one ever there ever was.

 

[RobDoc]

Disney has in affect closed that program for all except the economicly blind.

IMHO, using DVC points at DC resorts has ALWAYS been a bad deal. It did (and still does) provide an option for members to venture beyond the DVC setting if they wish.

As for the costs of the exchange program, in case you hadn't noticed, the economic climate has changed dramatically in the last 10 months. I don't think DVC has lost money on the past with this program, but I do think they may have in the last few months. IMO, increasing the points for DC resorts is a fiscally responsible move and nothing more.

We have seen recent discussions about renting points for well over $10 disappear lately- yet there are currently no Rent/Trade posts asking for more than $10...and many for as few as $6. An unheard of figure a few minths ago.

If we, as members, think that ANY optional component of the program is too expensive- whether that's DC resorts, the golf program, daily housekeeping, the cruise, etc.- then we can exercise our right to ignore the program. For those who claim to have purchased because of the DC exchange feature- it's still available. It's up to you whether the "value" is worth it.

 

[KLR-wlv]

I know in comparison to the DVC resorts, the DC was not as good a value, but for those who are only paying dues, a 30 point stay is costing them a little over $100 a night - which isn't such a bad rate for the nicer hotels on property. The DC was an option - I probably wouldn't have used it - but it was an option nonetheless - as was a stay at the Grove Park Inn or a hotel in New York - a little pricey on points - but in a year not going to DW - an option. These options are dwindling and again, will make reservations at DVC resorts all the more difficult to obtain if they are the only reasonable place to use points. Flexibility IS the selling point - not being allocated certain weeks like other timeshares - but we may essentially be forced to certain weeks if all dvc members are trying to use their points at three onsite hotels only.

Does DVC management care if only a certain percentage of members can get reservations? Doubtful, since the erosion of benefits to this program continues. All thoughts of add-ons are gone in my mind. I just don't get these actions in times of lowered park attendance. As a DVC member and a stockholder - it is disappointing to say the least.

I was disappointed when I went to WLV and found they had combined the boat service with FW - adding a significant time to getting to MK. I wouldn't be surprised if they did away with the boat altogether now. I think their cost cutting measures are extremely short sighted.

 

[sgtpet]

DVC is selling all of its members out. I recently received the promotion video for DVC and they push how reasonable it is to go to places other than the DVC resorts. Doc, they are eliminating an option for these people (within reason). I for one was looking forward to purchasing at DVC. One attraction for me was you could go to other locations throughout the world at what seemed to be not so unreasonable. In addition it would be nice to transfer your points to take the Disney Cruise without getting ripped off. It is ashame that DVC is doing this. Watch out because the next step is to eliminate your reasonable opportunity to go to another DVC resort. They will end up having different points for whether it is your home resort or not.

My interest is over. The value is dwindling rappidly.

What appeared to be a tremendous timeshare is a disappointing letdown.