Point Charts - Call with Disney Management Tomorrow (12/16)

[Lorana]

Its why the base year is important to know. They didn't seem to want to share when I chatted with them

And you have to ask yourself WHY they didn’t want to share it? I guess I have a suspicious mind (I blame my career), but the smoke & mirrors doesn’t make me feel as if they are entirely on the up and up.

And while I get all this about base years and changing point years, there should be listed somewhere we can all see what the max total number of points at a resort is. Even if they don’t share the base year, we as owners should have access to that. Because based on calculations others have done, it seems that PVB is exceeding by over 27,000 points the max points listed in the POS, and is higher than what was believed to be the base year, and we as owners should have a right to have access to the information to ensure that DVC is following the rules. And perhaps they are but they are sure are making it opaque and difficult for us to hold them accountable and see for ourselves!

 

[Sandisw]

And you have to ask yourself WHY they didn’t want to share it? I guess I have a suspicious mind (I blame my career), but the smoke & mirrors doesn’t make me feel as if they are entirely on the up and up.

And while I get all this about base years and changing point years, there should be listed somewhere we can all see what the max total number of points at a resort is. Even if they don’t share the base year, we as owners should have access to that. Because based on calculations others have done, it seems that PVB is exceeding by over 27,000 points the max points listed in the POS, and is higher than what was believed to be the base year, and we as owners should have a right to have access to the information to ensure that DVC is following the rules. And perhaps they are but they are sure are making it opaque and difficult for us to hold them accountable and see for ourselves!

Do we know if that number in the POS includes for 366 days? FL statute allows for that in terms of points sold.

As I mentioned, I am just not sure if there is wiggle room in terms of the charts and DVDs own points that can be used cover the differences? It would seem not.

With the exception of Poly, it got me thinking that without the base year and knowing exactly what the lock off premium is for that year, it also has to play a role since points are based on a total of 2 bedrooms...and that points sold go along with booking those.

For example, BLT has no dedicated studios or 1 bedrooms..at least from what the POS shows...so figuring out totals should be easier there.

 

[sethschroeder]

For example, BLT has no dedicated studios or 1 bedrooms..at least from what the POS shows...so figuring out totals should be easier there.

POLY essentially has 3 groups of points (Studio Std, Studio Lake, Bungalow) so it has to be the easiest right? I just worry that somehow the Studio/1BR lockoff might screw with things in some manner. Its why when RIV was making 0 sense I ran the numbers on POLY for the previous 4 years of Point Charts released.

it seems that PVB

You should submit a request through the only support request with a question regarding the base year and total points for the resort specific to POLY. I don't own POLY so it wouldn't really be something I would request.

 

[Minniemoo15]

And you have to ask yourself WHY they didn’t want to share it? I guess I have a suspicious mind (I blame my career), but the smoke & mirrors doesn’t make me feel as if they are entirely on the up and up.

And while I get all this about base years and changing point years, there should be listed somewhere we can all see what the max total number of points at a resort is. Even if they don’t share the base year, we as owners should have access to that. Because based on calculations others have done, it seems that PVB is exceeding by over 27,000 points the max points listed in the POS, and is higher than what was believed to be the base year, and we as owners should have a right to have access to the information to ensure that DVC is following the rules. And perhaps they are but they are sure are making it opaque and difficult for us to hold them accountable and see for ourselves!

I wrote an email with my concerns about PVBs 2022 point expansion and heard back from Terri Schultz herself. She basically said the point charts are very complicated and are affected by holidays and balancing shifts (which I already knew and acknowledged in my original email). She did copy my email to the person in charge of point chart creation and distribution for further clarification but this person has not yet got back to me. I plan on giving it until after the holidays and then will write a follow up email to this person directly.

What I am looking for at PVB is transparency ... what is the maximum allowed point total if not the number outlined in the POS? Why the expansion this year and does it provide a benefit to members? Without this transparency they could seemingly continue to add points year after year and diminish the staying power of the points I already own.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I wrote an email with my concerns about PVBs 2022 point expansion and heard back from Terri Schultz herself. She basically said the point charts are very complicated and are affected by holidays and balancing shifts (which I already knew and acknowledged in my original email). She did copy my email to the person in charge of point chart creation and distribution for further clarification but this person has not yet got back to me. I plan on giving it until after the holidays and then will write a follow up email to this person directly.

What I am looking for at PVB is transparency ... what is the maximum allowed point total if not the number outlined in the POS? Why the expansion this year and does it provide a benefit to members? Without this transparency they could seemingly continue to add points year after year and diminish the staying power of the points I already own.

Thank you for inquiring!!

 

[Sandisw]

POLY essentially has 3 groups of points (Studio Std, Studio Lake, Bungalow) so it has to be the easiest right? I just worry that somehow the Studio/1BR lockoff might screw with things in some manner. Its why when RIV was making 0 sense I ran the numbers on POLY for the previous 4 years of Point Charts released.



You should submit a request through the only support request with a question regarding the base year and total points for the resort specific to POLY. I don't own POLY so it wouldn't really be something I would request.

Thar lock off premium is giving me pause now because it would have to be what it is in a base year..assuming it can’t be changed. And without knowing that exact chart, those resorts have to have wiggle room.

I agree Poly is unique and have not looked but were the views defined in POS? At BLT I don’t believe they are which is what gives them play I think.

I have to look at Poly closer but the RIV seems okay to me..which I know you view differently.

 

[sethschroeder]

I agree Poly is unique and have not looked but were the views defined in POS? At BLT I don’t believe they are which is what gives them play I think.

So what we do know is that Bungalows are defined, don't change yearly, so are all good.

As for the math on the others do we need to know the exact breakdown?

If its 2 Std and 1 Lake or 1 Std and 2 Lake the year to year breakdown should be the same I am thinking. Sure it won't match the "total points" but we dont need to match the total what we are trying to do is have the baseline always come out to the same point total regardless of which years point chart we apply to it.

resorts have to have wiggle room.

I don't understand why it would change though. The base year should always come out to 100% of points used from my understanding. Worst case I would expect it to be off by a few hundred points not tens of thousands of points from the math I am getting.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Thar lock off premium is giving me pause now because it would have to be what it is in a base year..assuming it can’t be changed. And without knowing that exact chart, those resorts have to have wiggle room.

I agree Poly is unique and have not looked but were the views defined in POS? At BLT I don’t believe they are which is what gives them play I think.

I have to look at Poly closer but the RIV seems okay to me..which I know you view differently.

The resorts don't move rooms in and out of views each year. When they have in the past they have announced it. BLT made one adjustment around 2010 or so moving villas out of TPV and into standard view. They did not announce any changes to PVB so the Moorea lakeside studios should still be lakeview and the rest standard view.

 

[Sandisw]

So what we do know is that Bungalows are defined, don't change yearly, so are all good.

As for the math on the others do we need to know the exact breakdown?

If its 2 Std and 1 Lake or 1 Std and 2 Lake the year to year breakdown should be the same I am thinking. Sure it won't match the "total points" but we dont need to match the total what we are trying to do is have the baseline always come out to the same point total regardless of which years point chart we apply to it.



I don't understand why it would change though. The base year should always come out to 100% of points used from my understanding. Worst case I would expect it to be off by a few hundred points not tens of thousands of points from the math I am getting.

If the FL statue says you can sell points for the one to one ratio being defined as 366 days a year to account for leap year, then there is a days worth of points that can be sold that, IMO, that could give DVD wiggle room.

For views, my thinking is that when deciding total points sold, if views are determined at the beginning it would be different as if they are not?

Also, I am still wondering if the DVD owned points play any role since those points are not sold?

I just think without the exact base year, exact total of points the base year has in it, or the lock off premium uses on that base year chart, a small variation could be attributed to any of the above is someone is off just a bit.

 

[Sandisw]

The resorts don't move rooms in and out of views each year. When they have in the past they have announced it. BLT made one adjustment around 2010 or so moving villas out of TPV and into standard view. They did not announce any changes to PVB so the Moorea lakeside studios should still be lakeview and the rest standard view.

Without views defined in terms of the rooms, it allows DVC to change the percentage and adjust the points charts to fit.

Since BLT POS does not define X amount of rooms at SV, LV, and TPV, which is what I think allowed them to more easily reclassify those rooms.

I guess my question is when selling points, and deciding total for the resort, when views are not defined, does that play a role or make it harder to figure out things.

Now, resorts selling fixed weeks, may be different because if someone buys a SV week and is deeded to one unit, then that unit has been and will always have to be a SV room.

ETA: Poly rooms seem to have been defined with that view so that would make it easier to help calculate because those are fixed.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Without views defined in terms of the rooms, it allows DVC to change the percentage and adjust the points charts to fit.

Since BLT POS does not define X amount of rooms at SV, LV, and TPV, which is what I think allowed them to more easily reclassify those rooms.

I guess my question is when selling points, and deciding total for the resort, when views are not defined, does that play a role or make it harder to figure out things.

Now, resorts selling fixed weeks, may be different because if someone buys a SV week and is deeded to one unit, then that unit has been and will always have to be a SV room.

ETA: Poly rooms seem to have been defined with that view so that would make it easier to help calculate because those are fixed.

I do not believe it's as subjective as you are stating. The views are predetermined and yes. DVC has sometimes changed that but it's rare and they have previously announced when they have done that.[/QUOTE]