PM EMH drops from THREE Hours to TWO Hours

[KellyNY]

Or if your glass is half empty, write a list about what is missing since then...

 

[KSDisneyDad]

Because not all fans believe that sky is falling. Disney adds all the time, you go since forever, just write a list what was there on your first trip and what is there now and you will see.

Or if your glass is half empty, write a list about what is missing since then...

I haven't been on this board for a while and I came across this thread and after skimming through it, I think it boils down to these two posts. Each person has to make up their own list of what is important to them - both adds and subtracts - and decide if they like it or not. At some point, if you think the deducts devalue the product so much that it is no longer worth the price, you will stop going. I look at the positives and negatives and see an overall positive trend continuing even though there are many changes I miss or don't like such as no more delivery of packages directly to my room, no more "free" pictures at the hard ticket events, "free" dining, the Stitch attraction, no more Hunchback at the Studios, most of the new FE expansion, etc.

I do find it odd that for most people complaining about this cut, it seems like it's the principal of the cut more than the actual cut itself that is frustrating as most posters acknowledge that they rarely go that third hour and if they do, it's a ghost town. If it's just the principal of the cut that bothers you, then any change that can be perceived as negative will probably bother you (general you - not specific). Everyone's going to complain about something. It just seems like some like to complain more than others.

I'm sure it's been posted in this thread, but when did evening EMH start. Was it around 2005? It seems that before that, there were no evening EMH. So overall, two extra hours is still an added bonus for long-time guests. I'm planning a trip to DLR this year and they don't have this evening EMH concept as far as I know. Plus, their early entry variations are for more than just resort guests. I know it's a different park, but just thought it was interesting that Disney does it so differently on the two coasts.

 

[maxiesmom]

More cuts in service and more price hikes. I understand, Disney is concentrating on the infrequent quest, they won't notice the changes. But, I'm shocked at the number of fanatics, not only accepting, but defending these constant "changes".

The Magic is slowly, but surely diminishing.

You can not like a cut, but still be able to understand and defend it, coming at it from a business standpoint. If they truly average only 5 guests an hour on rides that last hour, it would be a horrible business decision to continue to stay open for that hour. No use having a perk that hardly anyone wants or uses.

I also don't agree the Magic is diminishing. The parks can't stay always the same. And Disney adds as much to the parks as they cut, if not more.

 

[Violet Parr]

You can not like a cut, but still be able to understand and defend it, coming at it from a business standpoint. If they truly average only 5 guests an hour on rides that last hour, it would be a horrible business decision to continue to stay open for that hour. No use having a perk that hardly anyone wants or uses.

I also don't agree the Magic is diminishing. The parks can't stay always the same. And Disney adds as much to the parks as they cut, if not more.

I don't even have to write posts anymore. I can just wait for maxiesmom to post and then .

VP

 

[Robo]

If they truly average only 5 guests an hour on rides that last hour, it would be a horrible business decision to continue to stay open for that hour.

I've never seen an instance of an E-Ticket attraction averaging 5 guests an hour.

If PeopleMover or Stitch drops to 5 guests an hour, don't offer PeopleMover or Stitch during PM EMH.

 

[maxiesmom]

I've never seen an instance of an E-Ticket attraction averaging 5 guests an hour.

If PeopleMover or Stitch drops to 5 guests an hour, don't offer PeopleMover or Stitch during PM EMH.

I would be interested to know what rides that poster's daughter and her friend were working at. Even if there were longer lines at all 3 mountains, it wouldn't be cost effective to just have them open and everything else not running. You would still have to have CMs out and about and all of the lights on and whatnot.

Sure, for the few people who took advantage of that 3rd hour the cut is a huge bummer. I'm not arguing that. But if there are truly that few people in the parks (and most posters seem to say the parks are all but a ghost town that 3rd hour) then it makes sense to not stay open that hour.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

I would be interested to know what rides that poster's daughter and her friend were working at. Even if there were longer lines at all 3 mountains, it wouldn't be cost effective to just have them open and everything else not running. You would still have to have CMs out and about and all of the lights on and whatnot.

Sure, for the few people who took advantage of that 3rd hour the cut is a huge bummer. I'm not arguing that. But if there are truly that few people in the parks (and most posters seem to say the parks are all but a ghost town that 3rd hour) then it makes sense to not stay open that hour.

But you're using logic and not emotion!!

 

[KellyNY]

I've never seen an instance of an E-Ticket attraction averaging 5 guests an hour.

If PeopleMover or Stitch drops to 5 guests an hour, don't offer PeopleMover or Stitch during PM EMH.

So you did not see but do you have data on every 3rd hour for every ride?

 

[Robo]

So you did not see but do you have data on every 3rd hour for every ride?

We don't need data on every 3rd hour.
We have enough to know that not all 3rd hours find an "average of 5 guests per hour" on all attractions.

But-
they are canceling every 3rd hour.

 

[KellyNY]

We don't need data on every 3rd hour.
We have enough to know that not all 3rd hours find an "average of 5 guests per hour" on all attractions.

But-
they are canceling every 3rd hour.

How do you know what is actually going on there? All we know from reports that parks are practically empty during 3rd hour. What is average is known only to Disney. Call it "B" factor if you want but without seeing this data, all of it is just a emotional speculation, once again.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

We don't need data on every 3rd hour.
We have enough to know that not all 3rd hours find an "average of 5 guests per hour" on all attractions.

But-
they are canceling every 3rd hour.

But whether it's 5 guests an hour (hyperbole) or 5 guests a minute or slightly more, it's still a very low number in that third hour based on anecdotal evidence by many. When even opponents to closing the third hour of EMH admit that they feel like they have the park to themselves, can't we agree that it's just a very low attendance number in that third hour for a Disney park?

I too enjoy riding attractions over and over without having to get off as no one is in line. It's a lot of fun for the handful who stay up that late. That said, it actually surprises me that 3 hour EMH have lasted as long as they have. I'll miss it, but honestly, it's not a perk that I used that often which is why I admittedly don't see what the huge fuss is about. If I want to complain, I'd rather them bring back E-ticket nights, but that won't happen.

 

[Colleen27]

You can not like a cut, but still be able to understand and defend it, coming at it from a business standpoint. If they truly average only 5 guests an hour on rides that last hour, it would be a horrible business decision to continue to stay open for that hour. No use having a perk that hardly anyone wants or uses.

I think some of the "parks are empty" comments are being taken too literally... I've never been to an EMH where it was really 5 guests per hour on any ride we went on (except maybe Carousel of Progress, but at midnight that's like a sleeping pill!). I've never seen volume as low as 5 guests per ride even, and we've done EMH until closing at the MK on every one of the last 5 or 6 trips. I have seen Dumbo run with no line and a few of the elephants unoccupied, I've seen Pirates running with only a half-dozen people per boat, etc. but at the headliners it is 10-20min waits compared to over an hour during the day and 40+min in the first two EMH hours. At Epcot, where EMH never runs past midnight, it isn't unusual to still see 40min lines at Test Track and Soarin right to the end, and we've never ridden TSM during EMH because the line doesn't drop under an hour even in the very last minutes. So when I say it is "empty" I'm saying that in comparison to the middle of the day, not "empty" in the literal sense.

 

[Robo]

I'm very happy to agree that there are far fewer guests in the park at 3AM.
That's the point of super-late PM EMH.
Disney ran the PM EMH's late, especially during very busy times of year, to allow Resort guests a "park to themselves" experience.

But actually, very few PM EMH run until 3AM.

Many run only until 11PM or Midnight.

The parks are not "empty" and running an "average of 5 guests average per hour" by Midnight.

 

[mjp12831]

I would be interested to know what rides that poster's daughter and her friend were working at. Even if there were longer lines at all 3 mountains, it wouldn't be cost effective to just have them open and everything else not running. You would still have to have CMs out and about and all of the lights on and whatnot.

Sure, for the few people who took advantage of that 3rd hour the cut is a huge bummer. I'm not arguing that. But if there are truly that few people in the parks (and most posters seem to say the parks are all but a ghost town that 3rd hour) then it makes sense to not stay open that hour.

We usually end in the pmemh park and hang until closing.

Admittedly this is in July and August.

To blanketly say that "attractions average 5 guests per hour" is inaccurate, and to describe the parks as "a ghost town" during hour 3 is pattently false. In fact, the 3 parks other than MK feature some substantial standby lines at headliners during hour 3.

We're a family of 5, so essentially this would imply that we are the only people riding in hour 3 when we are at WDW.

 

[KellyNY]

I'm very happy to agree that there are far fewer guests in the park at 3AM.
That's the point of super-late PM EMH.
Disney ran the PM EMH's late, especially during very busy times of year, to allow Resort guests a "park to themselves" experience.

But actually, very few PM EMH run until 3AM.

Many run only until 11PM or Midnight.

The parks are not "empty" and running an "average of 5 guests average per hour" by Midnight.

Any data for that? Those extra hours you are talking about are during slow times which in many cases also means colder nights, and we have plenty of reports that people do not take midday breaks but stay in parks while it is nice. Once again, actual picture is known only to Disney.

 

[Phatoomch]

Quick question as I'm not sure this has been discussed ... have opening hours been extended for any evenings?

 

[Reddog1134]

Any data for that? Those extra hours you are talking about are during slow times which in many cases also means colder nights, and we have plenty of reports that people do not take midday breaks but stay in parks while it is nice. Once again, actual picture is known only to Disney.

There are plenty of times in which EMH runs only until midnight and it's still warm.

 

[Rip]

How many people are not going to go to Disney our stay off site because of the change? I hypothesize very few at best and a vast majority won't even notice or care about the change, so from a business stand point why not do it? If anything it will be one of those things that some people might think "hmmmm didn't they use to stay open for three hours a while back? Let me google it and find out.".

It is obvious just from the few people that use this hour at the parks this change will not be as negative as people are suggesting. This is a change that effects few people, saves money allowing them to allocate the expenses elsewhere.

Now I'm not suggesting some people won't be upset, but from a bang for their buck stand point those dollars could be used more efficiently. Put your business hat on for a second, everyone wants more but how is this more going to be paid for? Remember that businesses that don't make money...well they disappear. I prefer Disney to make money and reinvest wisely into their business.

Not to mention if for some reason they are wrong about their change it is pretty easy to add it back. "Due to overwhelming response to the EMHs in the evening and our desire to provide an extra magical experience for our on site guests we are going to once again provide 3 evening hours of extra magic!". This is worth trying from a business stand point, very little downside that can't easily be changed.

This one single change? No. But this, in addition to the other changes coupled with the continuing price increases was the deciding factor for skipping our annual trip to the food and wine festival for the first time this year and extending our stay at Universal.

 

[Robo]

Any data for that? Those extra hours you are talking about are during slow times which in many cases also means colder nights, and we have plenty of reports that people do not take midday breaks but stay in parks while it is nice. Once again, actual picture is known only to Disney.

You seem to want me to say something about data, but you've not been inclined towards any that I supplied.

Disney has been operating PM EMH for years with the last hour being the least-attended.
My data there seems to show that's what they must have intended to do for at least the last 9 years.
This year on "Leap Day," they even operated MK and DL 24 hours straight, with the wee small hours being the least attended.

I'm not saying that there are not fewer guests during the last hour of PM EM,
I'm saying that PM EMH is designed with that in mind.

 

[Robo]

Quick question as I'm not sure this has been discussed ... have opening hours been extended for any evenings?

Yes, in comparison to the early-listed hours on the calendar.

Virtually very month for years.