Please Don't Bash The DDP!

[apostolic4life]

Well said!!
Disney is making very intelligent financial decisions, this is why they have a DP. To say the DP is to blame for fully booked restaurants just reaffirms this.
The supposed decline in food quality...any rest., can have an off day, or it could be you Maybe you were not as hungry as the last time you were there. Or could be your mood/company.
AS for the service, I am not educated on the tip sharing policy at WDW, but having worked as a waitress & now being in the rest. buisness, I believe tip sharing can affect some servers peformance. It can be very frustrating to work at a rest. w/ that policy.
I am not sure if PP's comments about DP users not wanting more upscale rest. was serious or not
I don't believe any guest would be "against" more wonderful places or choices!?
I have used the DP and I will use it again. I have found it to be easy, a great deal & very vacation friendly! If I had a bad experience at a rest. I would not return. I do not think that being a "vet" or a "foodie" makes a person a snob, it just means you really love WDW & good restaurants. Anyone can be a snob it just takes a certain attitude
The class system is not because you are in WDW it is because you are in Orlando Fla. U.S.A.~LUCKY YOU GRATITUDE IS THE ATTITUDE

I agree!!!!!

 

[Lewisc]

Was Yachtsman ever on the level of The Palm or Ruths' Chris? Did they ever serve prime grade beef?

I think some posters over-rated the Disney restaurants pre-dining plan and overstate the cutbacks, at least at the signature restaurants.

I enjoy Le Cellier. Nice meal. I wouldn't rate the food as much better then the Outback before or after the dining plan. The food is a lot closer to Outback then it is to The Palm. Listen to some of the posters and you'd think the quality went from the Palm to Sizzler.

V&A is not on the dining plan. Disney could have excluded a couple of other restaurants. I'm sure Disney likes the fact the restaurants are now booked months in advance.

"Foodies" can still dine at V&A, Bistro, Il Mulino, Shula's and Bluezoo. Those restaurants get good reviews.

Regarding the changes seen to restaurnats industry wide, just because you say it doesn't make it true. It is true there is a trend toward chains (be they small or large) but the cutbacks you speak of aren't happening at the restaurants (any of them) that I frequest (The Palm, Ruths' Chris, Blue Zoo, Emeril's, Cafe D'Antonio to name a few in Orlando). Now if you're talking Bennigans, Friday's or Applebee's, yeah I see it but this is not the bar I personally would like WDW dining to be judged at.

Disney should easily be able to keep a workable DDP, with great restaurants and appropriate choices at an acceptable price level while simutaneously operating three or four high end, chef driven dining experiences to please another segment...

 

[apostolic4life]

V&A, Jiko's, Artist Point, Yachtsman, Narcoossee's, Flying Fish, Citricos, are not high end restaurants?

Yes, they are high end restaurants, but they are not all considered "fine dining". V&A's is the one which is considered fine dining. Fine Dining establishments have more to offer than even the high end places mentioned by Peter Pirate 2 earlier.

Fine Dining is about a complete experience not just the food. I would not consider it fine dining without appropriate dress, tables with linens full place settings, and a small army of servers to take care of your every need or question.

The restaurants mentioned by you and PP2 are all excellent high end experiences, but only V&A's is fine dining. IMHO

 

[apostolic4life]

Was Yachtsman ever on the level of The Palm or Ruths' Chris? Did they ever serve prime grade beef?

I think some posters over-rated the Disney restaurants pre-dining plan and overstate the cutbacks, at least at the signature restaurants.

I enjoy Le Cellier. Nice meal. I wouldn't rate the food as much better then the Outback before or after the dining plan. The food is a lot closer to Outback then it is to The Palm. Listen to some of the posters and you'd think the quality went from the Palm to Sizzler.

V&A is not on the dining plan. Disney could have excluded a couple of other restaurants. I'm sure Disney likes the fact the restaurants are now booked months in advance.

"Foodies" can still dine at V&A, Bistro, Il Mulino, Shula's and Bluezoo. Those restaurants get good reviews.

Well stated!

 

[marivaid]

Yes, they are high end restaurants, but they are not all considered "fine dining". V&A's is the one which is considered fine dining. Fine Dining establishments have more to offer than even the high end places mentioned by Peter Pirate 2 earlier.

Fine Dining is about a complete experience not just the food. I would not consider it fine dining without appropriate dress, tables with linens full place settings, and a small army of servers to take care of your every need or question.

The restaurants mentioned by you and PP2 are all excellent high end experiences, but only V&A's is fine dining. IMHO

But the question is, were there more fine dining choices before the DDP ? If not then how can the DDP be responsible for the loss of something that didn't even exist ?

 

[crisi]

Do you people want to have a discussion or are we just going to always be wrong because we don't agree that everything the wonderful, benevolent Disney gives us is great?

No one said we only wanted exclusivity in WDW dining. No one said we didn't like change. At one point in time food at WDW resembled dog food. IT was terrible. Then they slowly upped the ante to where it was down right respectable in every sense. We not only liked that change we bought into it big time! Now why should those of us who loved that aspect of WDW just sit and be quiet when they've done a complete 180 and just ignored us?

You call us names like elitist and snobs and compare the dining changes to riduculous things like Fastpass and constantly remind us that WDW is a business and that if DDP is profitable then it must be great. Well, I don't deny that the DDP's have worked and I'd be hard pressed to ignore just how much some (most) people like them but the rub is I don't particularily want these types of programs to go away, quite the contrary, I think Disney should cater to all tastes from the very budget minded to the hoighty toighty that I'll never be. But in this case you DDP lovers keep telling us that we don't matter because we're not the majority. Why? Why does it bother you that we'd like three or four really top level places with creative menu's, sommoliars and top notch service? No one would make you go but it seems you just want it all for yourself which is exactly what you blame us for.

And the elitist snob in me admits it was never WONDERFUL (OK, one meal at Flying Fish was WONDERFUL) - but it used to be pretty darn good and certainly exceeded expectations for theme park and hotel food (hotel food is almost always horrid).

My wish is that they'd pull the signature restaurants off the DDP and let those restaurants sink or swim on their own with autonomy. My feeling is that there are enough food snobs that they'll do fine.

 

[Colleen27]

I absolutely agree that perspective is everything. Further WDW was never the epitome of fine dining, it had however, made huge strides towards that end before the onslaught of the DDP/free dining and the fall backward.

But those strides seem to have appealed only to a very specific, rather limited share of Disney guests. The DDP isn't to blame for the changes - the fact that fine dining, especially at a kid-oriented destination, has limited appeal is to blame for the changes. There is a reason there is only one Ruth's Chris to dozens of Outback Steakhouses in any given area - most people don't care so much about fine dining that they're willing to pay the premium. And that's even more true at Disney, where most guests are travelling with children and looking for family-oriented experiences. The ratio of fine dining to good restaurants at Disney is closer to what you'd see anywhere else now, and for the same reason - while the foodies who do go to Disney might like to see a dozen different choices for fine dining, it doesn't make sense to have a dozen fine restaurants that sit half-empty while hundreds of thousands of non-foodie visitors eat cheaper counter service for every meal.

Dining at Disney is excellent for a theme park destination. It is very good food by the standards of the millions and millions of average Americans who patronize Fridays and Don Pablos and Benihana and all those other prolific mid-priced chains (and the countless independant restaurants in the same price/quality range). And for the foodies of the world there are still some excellent options, even if they aren't as abundant as some would prefer. Seems to me that Disney has done a remarkable job of balancing the wants of a very diverse group of visitors.

 

[crisi]

But those strides seem to have appealed only to a very specific, rather limited share of Disney guests.

But what is stopping Disney from applying a broad spectrum approach to dining, as they do to resorts? Having a few places left (other than V&As) that would appeal to foodies would keep more people from going offsite (or to Blue Zoo, which is functionally offsite per Disney's profitability). Universal manages a few.

And appealling to the masses is good if you value volume over margin, but Disney has the ability to segment their market - to get both volume and margin. One of my management accounting profs once said "the market you REALLY want is the stupid rich guy market." The people that will pay $200 for a bottle of wine and believe they get value for it (and hey, maybe they do).


(Yes, five or six years ago Yachtman did serve Black Angus Prime - they were on our list for that reason, but our kids were too little to brave "fancy steakhouse." Shula's has always been the "best" steakhouse on property though - if you are comparing Disney steakhouses to the Ruth's Chris class of steak).

 

[DiRTyBuNNy]

Does the fact that Disney is removing the gratuity from the DDP effective January 2008 change anyone's feelings towards the DDP? (Gratuity to be removed from DDP!!)

--Mr. DB

 

[apostolic4life]

But those strides seem to have appealed only to a very specific, rather limited share of Disney guests. The DDP isn't to blame for the changes - the fact that fine dining, especially at a kid-oriented destination, has limited appeal is to blame for the changes. There is a reason there is only one Ruth's Chris to dozens of Outback Steakhouses in any given area - most people don't care so much about fine dining that they're willing to pay the premium. And that's even more true at Disney, where most guests are travelling with children and looking for family-oriented experiences. The ratio of fine dining to good restaurants at Disney is closer to what you'd see anywhere else now, and for the same reason - while the foodies who do go to Disney might like to see a dozen different choices for fine dining, it doesn't make sense to have a dozen fine restaurants that sit half-empty while hundreds of thousands of non-foodie visitors eat cheaper counter service for every meal.

Dining at Disney is excellent for a theme park destination. It is very good food by the standards of the millions and millions of average Americans who patronize Fridays and Don Pablos and Benihana and all those other prolific mid-priced chains (and the countless independant restaurants in the same price/quality range). And for the foodies of the world there are still some excellent options, even if they aren't as abundant as some would prefer. Seems to me that Disney has done a remarkable job of balancing the wants of a very diverse group of visitors.

I totally agree........Disney has done an admirable job of offering a little bit for everyone. DDP options are limited to specific places and you can't experience the finer places to eat at WDW with it, but if you want to pay for those places they are available. I am one of the ones who enjoys all types of dining (greasy spoons clear up to the fine dining) and can be happy with most places when I view them in the proper perspective. As long as the sanitation is in line I can eat anywhere.

 

[Colleen27]

Does the fact that Disney is removing the gratuity from the DDP effective January 2008 change anyone's feelings towards the DDP? (Gratuity to be removed from DDP!!)

It certainly makes the DDP less of a deal. I wonder if there will be any accompanying changes to menus once the full $39 is going to food. I doubt it. I expect there will be accompanying changes to profits, while the same basic philosophy on the menus will persist.

Personally, I think I'll like the change. At first, I didn't. My knee-jerk reaction was to look at the effective cost increase that comes with this change. But for me, there is value in the pre-paid aspect of the dining plan as much as in the "bang for your buck" aspect, and I think the move to traditional tipping will restore the traditional incentive for excellent service and silence some of the complaints of servers slacking off knowing that their 18% was assured.

 

[marivaid]

Does the fact that Disney is removing the gratuity from the DDP effective January 2008 change anyone's feelings towards the DDP? (Gratuity to be removed from DDP!!)

--Mr. DB

Yep, we won't buy it anymore. The only reason why we buy it is because it's practical and we don't have to carry cash in the parks.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

In this regard the optimist in me takes heart. I am at least hopeful that with this new profit/margin scenerio we will see a return to greater quality and personal chef input. Taking the gratuity out of the equation is a large financial decision and just may allow the Signatures, in particular, the leeway to once again create and wow us.

Another reason for hope is that before this announcement Disney hired a new head chef for FF, and I did not think this would happen, so perhaps they knew even more changes were coming.

This is just my speculation but I am hopeful.

 

[3jsmommy]

I totally agree........Disney has done an admirable job of offering a little bit for everyone. DDP options are limited to specific places and you can't experience the finer places to eat at WDW with it, but if you want to pay for those places they are available. I am one of the ones who enjoys all types of dining (greasy spoons clear up to the fine dining) and can be happy with most places when I view them in the proper perspective. As long as the sanitation is in line I can eat anywhere.

I feel the same way, especially when I'm w/ my kids!
Also.. I would still do DDP w/ out the tip incl. We usually have great service in WDW & tip xtra anyway.
My husband is from NY, italian & like Vinny(Steve Martin) from My Blue Heaven, he "Believes in over tipping"
The servers might suffer the most from this change during school breaks If you have ever worked in the rest. buisness you will know what I'm talking about!

 

[KevinYee]

Well said!!
Disney is making very intelligent financial decisions, this is why they have a DP. To say the DP is to blame for fully booked restaurants just reaffirms this.
The supposed decline in food quality...any rest., can have an off day, or it could be you Maybe you were not as hungry as the last time you were there. Or could be your mood/company.

The irony is that I do believe the DDP is lowering standards and food quality. I just think the vehemence and the "my side is right" attitude that BOTH sides take is an interesting phenomenon, and probably related to the way the system impacts everyone, even those who don't use it.

I'm not surprised in the least that the DDP won't include gratuity in 2008. It fits the company moves in the past: make something free, hook people on it, and start charging for it. It's a wonder that Disney's Magical Express is still free... I suspect it won't be for long.

 

[Sammie]

I think the problem with bashing anything, is it just gets old. Sure everyone should be allowed their opinion. And yet no opinion is fact. As Peter said he has talked to two chefs who obviously are not happy with the DDP and I have talked to 5 who are. So who is right. Neither of us. Just different opinions from people affected.

I just think that there comes a time to just let it go though. I had a bad stay 4 years ago at a popular resort, that if I posted the gory details would make some people's toe's curl and they would swear they would never stay there again and many would rush out and cancel future stays at this resort.

But there is no reason for that. What happened to us might never happen to another person and even the management that was there at the time is now gone, so management now can't be blamed for what happened then.

Some people don't like the DDP, that's fine, but don't be arrogant about it and act like that because you don't like it, Disney should change it to suit your wants and needs. And don't be arrogant about the fact that a favorite on a menu that was removed might have been something, someone else would never had eaten and was glad to see it gone.

Disney listens to the majority and right now the majority likes the DDP.

 

[apostolic4life]

I feel the same way, especially when I'm w/ my kids!
Also.. I would still do DDP w/ out the tip incl. We usually have great service in WDW & tip xtra anyway.
My husband is from NY, italian & like Vinny(Steve Martin) from My Blue Heaven, he "Believes in over tipping"
The servers might suffer the most from this change during school breaks If you have ever worked in the rest. buisness you will know what I'm talking about!

We are more about the convienence of the DDP than the overall dollar value so we would continue to use it even without the tip included. As I said over on the thread about the tip being removed from DDP, it is still just rumor........no official word released yet.

 

[3jsmommy]

The irony is that I do believe the DDP is lowering standards and food quality. I just think the vehemence and the "my side is right" attitude that BOTH sides take is an interesting phenomenon, and probably related to the way the system impacts everyone, even those who don't use it.

I'm not surprised in the least that the DDP won't include gratuity in 2008. It fits the company moves in the past: make something free, hook people on it, and start charging for it. It's a wonder that Disney's Magical Express is still free... I suspect it won't be for long.

I still agree w/ your first statement I just happen to like using DDP at this point in my life(3 young children)
I used to go on vacation to places that were very well known for fine dining (St. Barths, NYC, etc..) Now due to a shift of priorities & cash flow( 3 college saving programs) I do not make that my #1 on my list when making plans. All of the devout foodies out there might want to rethink your vaca choices, or are you really devout Disers w/ an intrest in fine dining??? Should I get my hose out now? ps... being a DISer MUCH more fun!!

 

[Dreamfinder2]

This is enlightening!

I guess my point, which was buried in verbage, was that I'm still having as good of a time at WDW now as I did in 1972. To quote: "There are places I’ll remember, all my life - though some have changed.
Some forever not for better, some have gone and some remain."

I'm just grateful that there may be more folks than ever having a great Disney experience, and I can't complain about any changes that have made that possible. But that's just me.

 

[3jsmommy]

I wish everyone on here felt the same way you do Dreamfinder2 maybe some people just can't handle ..."Cha.Cha.Cha..Changes"