Plans have been filed for DVC expansion at Caribbean Beach Resort

[sachilles]

Could just be a drop off/pick up point, isn't it right by the entrance?

You already have trams in use, why wouldn't they just use the normal tram stop? to be clear I'm talking about the parking lot train car type of tram, not a ski lift type of tram.

 

[PaintsWithAllTheColors]

Maybe I'm not quite seeing it, but it seems to me that if it were a gondola/lift, there would need to be a similarly sized building by the international gateway. It doesn't appear plans were made for that, but I'm also terrible at reading these types of things. Thoughts?

 

[rteetz]

Maybe I'm not quite seeing it, but it seems to me that if it were a gondola/lift, there would need to be a similarly sized building by the international gateway. It doesn't appear plans were made for that, but I'm also terrible at reading these types of things. Thoughts?

Its the shape of the buildings that is leading to the speculation.

 

[sachilles]

Maybe I'm not quite seeing it, but it seems to me that if it were a gondola/lift, there would need to be a similarly sized building by the international gateway. It doesn't appear plans were made for that, but I'm also terrible at reading these types of things. Thoughts?

Different permit maybe? One that doesn't alter the water ways, therefore not part of what we are seeing here.

 

[rteetz]

Different permit maybe? One that doesn't alter the water ways, therefore not part of what we are seeing here.

Nope the ones we have posted in here is all there is.

 

[PaintsWithAllTheColors]

Different permit maybe? One that doesn't alter the water ways, therefore not part of what we are seeing here.

That would make sense. I do agree the shapes of the buildings would work for this type of transport. I'll wait for that other permit then ETA: well, guess there's not one yet. maybe it's coming?


I ski fairly often myself, and am skeptical about this. Ski lifts stop and start All. The. Time. Someone loses a pole while boarding, it needs to slowed down for kids, etc. This is true even for gondolas. It just seems that even though it could take 11 minutes as PP mentioned, actual travel time would be significantly increased with the loading of the variety of Disney guests with varying levels of mobility.

 

[skier_pete]

length on chair by my estimation if a lift.
dhs to cbr south. .74 miles, 3.7 minutes
cbr south to CBR north, .41 miles/2.05 minutes
Cbr north to boardwalk lot, .64 miles/3.2 minutes
boardwalk lot to international gateway .46 miles/2.3 minutes.
So about 11 minute ride time total.
Thats a rough guess based on the most recent lift built at my former resort.

You are thinking detachable lift also, right? I think a lot of non-skiers don't realize how fast detachable gondolas can go. The gondola at whistler goes about 5,000 meters (15,000 feet or 3 miles) in about 10 minutes.

The thing that is interesting to me, is if it's a ski lift/gondola type of conveyance, it really is a challenge to make that work with ADA. A ski tram, can accommodate wheel chairs etc, but wouldn't have the capacity. Gondolas, could be made to work no doubt, but it would be very slow loading.

This is true, it would definitely be an issue with load/unload. A typical high-speed detachable gondola doesn't stop, it just slows considerably. The average person may have no problem with this, but it would be quite difficult to navigate a wheelchair or ECV, even if they had special cars for them. Unless they had detachable cars that come off to the side - like at TSMM. Hard to believe they could do something like that at every station...

That makes a loading station in the boardwalk parking lot a bit of a head scratcher.

I'm thinking that's not a load station, it's just a re-route/turn. In order to get to the International Gateway, they can't go from CBR directly without crossing the park - which hopefully they would never do. This just reroutes around the park.

Don't forget wind. Wind can cause the lift to run at reduced speed or close all together. Lightning is the big issue though.

I think is typically less of an issue in Florida than Lightning. Wind usually only comes with the storms. Most of these are designed for pretty good wind anyways.

The staffing would not be crazy in terms of comparison to any other new type of transportation option.

Well, I suppose if it replaced the existing bus routes...but again the weather - do you then run buses when the weather goes south.

Much rather it be more of a people mover than gondola. The latest pictures Dan posted just make too much sense for this to be something other than a new transportation option. But what do I know

People mover would be possible as well, but it would be MUCH more expensive than a gondola.

 

[skier_pete]

Maybe I'm not quite seeing it, but it seems to me that if it were a gondola/lift, there would need to be a similarly sized building by the international gateway. It doesn't appear plans were made for that, but I'm also terrible at reading these types of things. Thoughts?

Definitely their would be, but if you look close there's actually already lots of space at the IG where they used to have the tram turnaround. (Before the friendship boats there were trams over there. The end units would actually NOT need to necessarily have a large footprint. The large footprint is where the engines are.

I tend to think the idea that this is all tramways doesn't work as well. The path is going over multiple roads. The "stations" as shown building size with entrance angles wouldn't make sense for a tramway. It looks very much like a skyway design.

As I think about it - this captures the discussion we were having about how people don't like the buses, but love things like the monorail. Capturing the nostalgia of the skyway could be a big selling point. "Buy at CBT and take the skyway to Epcot and DHS be in the park in 10 minutes."

What did I say about 20 times on this thread - "The Carrot is big enough that they'll find a solution."

 

[skier_pete]

Someone should ping @Madonna3 . She loves this thread - she'd want to know it's heating up.

Oh wait, I just did!

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Definitely their would be, but if you look close there's actually already lots of space at the IG where they used to have the tram turnaround. (Before the friendship boats there were trams over there. The end units would actually NOT need to necessarily have a large footprint. The large footprint is where the engines are.

I tend to think the idea that this is all tramways doesn't work as well. The path is going over multiple roads. The "stations" as shown building size with entrance angles wouldn't make sense for a tramway. It looks very much like a skyway design.

As I think about it - this captures the discussion we were having about how people don't like the buses, but love things like the monorail. Capturing the nostalgia of the skyway could be a big selling point. "Buy at CBT and take the skyway to Epcot and DHS be in the park in 10 minutes."

What did I say about 20 times on this thread - "The Carrot is big enough that they'll find a solution."

I think that is something to keep in mind too as my first thought was - how many people can they move through this? But it really would be a secondary mode of transportation as they have the boats still directly connecting EPCOT and DHS so really this is just for those staying at CBR and if they build another resort or something near the terminal south of CBR/east of DHS (DVC for AoA?) or those that want to check it out. So even if it isn't the fastest way it could work

 

[sachilles]

I'm thinking detachable. I have a few buddies that install lifts for Leitner Poma. Be interesting to know if there was a bid on it. I'd guess there would have to be a bid. There is really only a couple of companies, that do this stuff worldwide.

While I'm excited by the thought of it, it doesn't strike me a great idea.

Ski lifts do stop frequently or slow, and that has a lot to do with loading issues. A gondola, is less prone to that stuff by it's nature. Usually it's less mobile people loading that cause issues along with folks halving issues disembarking.....IE falling on your skis as you get off, or going around the bull wheel hitting the trip. A pedestrian load should be less prone to the issues.

That being said, ski lifts operate where most people are transported in one direction. In this case it would be about 50% in either direction and that alters capacity.

 

[sachilles]

I think that is something to keep in mind too as my first thought was - how many people can they move through this? But it really would be a secondary mode of transportation as they have the boats still directly connecting EPCOT and DHS so really this is just for those staying at CBR and if they build another resort or something near the terminal south of CBR/east of DHS (DVC for AoA?) or those that want to check it out. So even if it isn't the fastest way it could work

depends on the configuration, but you could move about 4000 people per mile of lift. You are looking at 5 miles of haulrope. 2.5 miles one direction. So you are at a max of 12,000 per hour

 

[sachilles]

That being said, that is being way optimistic. That's in a ski scenario, I think average loading time would be much slower, and maybe go 50% of capacity.

 

[skier_pete]

I think that is something to keep in mind too as my first thought was - how many people can they move through this? But it really would be a secondary mode of transportation as they have the boats still directly connecting EPCOT and DHS so really this is just for those staying at CBR and if they build another resort or something near the terminal south of CBR/east of DHS (DVC for AoA?) or those that want to check it out. So even if it isn't the fastest way it could work

They definitely would not want it to be the primary service for folks from DHS to Epcot. However, think about it - the Friendship boats hold what 200 people per boat? A go every 15 minutes? That's only 800 people per hour.

A quad chair moves 2400 people per hour, a gondola would probably be more than that. So even if the occasional slow downs, stoppages, it would be able to handle transport of the folks from CBR. I think more the problem would be that it would be running EMPTY more of the time than not.

That being said, ski lifts operate where most people are transported in one direction. In this case it would be about 50% in either direction and that alters capacity.

While I agree that ski chairs are poor for multi direction, a gondola is quite easy. I will use the example of the whistler gondola. The lower gondola on Whistler mountain transports nearly as many people down as it does up. (The lower mountain is awful to ski.) And let's point out the Skyway that ran in both Disneyland and Disneyworld for 25 years. It went both ways.

 

[sachilles]

It's not that it's not possible to go both ways. It is quite possible.
You can only have so much weight on the hole thing thing. You can have 4000 people all going in one direction, or you can have 2000 going one direction, while another 2000 move an opposite direction. You MUST run slower, if you are loading at both ends(or multiple times).

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Maybe they could do it like the Ngong Ping 360 Cable Car in Hong Kong which goes both ways and goes through stations like depicted here to change direction. Per their website it has a capacity of 3,500 people per hour in each direction

They have detachable cars and really efficient for loading, etc.:

They also feature cars with glass bottoms that you can view through to see the world below you - which would be really cool if it was more over the actual parks

 

[dlavender]

You already have trams in use, why wouldn't they just use the normal tram stop? to be clear I'm talking about the parking lot train car type of tram, not a ski lift type of tram.

Perhaps for a resort only tram stop?

Yes, the parking lot tram.

I just see it as a much cheaper solution, while still offering direct access/transport.

Definitely doesn't have the panache of a gondola, however.

 

[sachilles]

Perhaps for a resort only tram stop?

Yes, the parking lot tram.

I just see it as a much cheaper solution, while still offering direct access/transport.

Definitely doesn't have the panache of a gondola, however.

I totally agree with you, it's just the building in the permit is not consistent with that scenario, as the vehicle would have to snake itself around a pretty large loop. So the location of that building would be a very poor choice for that.

 

[DanBoris]

What is tough for me to reconcile is that roundabout route.
Why go International gate way to boardwalk lot to CBR to cbr then DHS.
Wouldn't you want to go IG to Boardwalk lot to DHS to CBR?
Makes it impossibly long to go from DHS to IG, but maybe they figure the boats already do that?

There is already boats and walking paths from IG to DHS, so no need for another direct connection. This route would be to get from CBR to both DHS and Epcot without a stop in between. The location of the structure at the Boardwalk lot makes sense since it provide the most direct path from CBR to Epcot without having to pass over the park.

 

[jknezek]

I call this the "anything but buses" syndrome (ABBS). You can ride a bus anywhere and usually you don't want to ride a bus. Name one bus ride you can't wait to take, I dare you. Greyhound is painful, city buses are an evil necessity. Seriously, the only time I ever chose a bus over another form of transportation was when I lived in NYC in the summer and going into the subway was a boiling, smelly, crowded nightmare. So to be forced onto a bus at Disney seems to suck out the magic of being there. Especially when there is alternative magical transportation like the (mostly) working monorail.

That being said, I can't imagine they would build a ski lift type system. The Friendship boats already shut down in lightening, what good would another system that can't work in the rain do? Gondola seems like a better idea. I'd imagine it would be a big draw simply because ABBS. Short of spending a gazillion dollars expanding the monorail, expanding the capacity of the monorail, and expanding the reliability of the monorail, buses simply are the most efficient and flexible means of moving guests around. You can get more buses easily and cheaply since they are mass produced, you can reduce or increase capacity easily, you can repair them easily, and you can shift routes easily. Lots of people have bus driving experience, so it's not hard to get employees. Buses just make (unfortunately boring) sense.