Plans have been filed for DVC expansion at Caribbean Beach Resort

[sachilles]

The leg added to AoA is a leap of faith. Reading it in the thread on the board indicates it as so.
Adding that would require a second lift line. It may already be 2 lines without the AoA spur.
I think a walking path from AoA makes way more sense, and the permits show what looks like it could be a path direct to that building from AoA.

 

[skier_pete]

The leg added to AoA is a leap of faith. Reading it in the thread on the board indicates it as so.
Adding that would require a second lift line. It may already be 2 lines without the AoA spur.
I think a walking path from AoA makes way more sense, and the permits show what looks like it could be a path direct to that building from AoA.

Good point. I am not sure they would really want to bring this sort of transportation to a value resort. Why stay at CBR when you can get the same thing at Pop??

 

[jknezek]

Ah. that might explain why I found the routing in the diagram so weird. It makes more sense without AoA and two different direct connections from CBR. If you add AoA, it seems it would make more sense to do a loop, AoA to CBR to DHS to EPCOT, back to CBR then AoA. Yes, no direct from CBR to EPCOT, or from DHS back to CBR, but you would think one loop would make more sense then 2 spurs. Also it would do away with the need for AoA people to change cars at CBR for one of the destinations and create a primacy for the moderate resort. But that really only makes sense if there is an AoA spur.

 

[mab2012]

I just keep picturing the gondola line at Tremblant at 9:30 on a Saturday morning... not pretty. And usually not much better for the rest of the day.

But then, I really have no idea how the number of people waiting to get up the mountain compares to the number of people they'd be trying to move with this lift at peak times.

And I'm still not clear how the "loop" would work. The angles imply separate gondola lines to me, which then means unloading and reloading (and waiting in line again) at each stop? Or if it's just one line with one or more midpoints, the logistics of loading become more complicated. You would have to figure out how many people are getting out of each cabin before you know how many you can load, and then find a party size to match. Definitely not impossible, just a bit more difficult. Plus it could make getting on at certain stops quite difficult at certain times of day, depending on traffic patterns.

Also the gondolas I've been on are typically a pretty squishy fit. Not sure quite how well that would fly at Disney. It's one thing in winter when everyone is all bundled up; something else at 40C when the stranger next to you is hot and sticky and wearing little clothing. Ick. I guess they don't have to pack them that tightly though, just depends on overall capacity.

This all sounds rather more negative than I intended it to. Just trying to wrap my head around the idea.

 

[sachilles]

I question how many loading/unloading spots there are. That will make a difference. The other thing is whether this is a one off transport idea, or a thought to the future, with many lines envisioned.

 

[skier_pete]

I just keep picturing the gondola line at Tremblant at 9:30 on a Saturday morning... not pretty. And usually not much better for the rest of the day.

The main difference is that gondolas at ski resorts - especially from bases, have to take (a) ALL the skiers up and (B) many of them up multiple times. A ski resort like Tremblant might have 10,000 to 20,000 skiers a day, and they are all loading on that gondola in the morning.

In this case we are talking 1,500 rooms at CBR and say another 600 rooms at CBT. That's 2,100 rooms, and assumes 8,400 people on average at the resort. (Average 4 per room is generous.)

Let's say on any given day HALF the people want to go to Epcot or DHS. (Remember, there's still MK, DAK, the water Parks, DS, other resorts, etc) So let's say HALF the people at the resort want to go to Epcot or DHS on a given day -> that's 4,200 passengers. That's ALL DAY.

Then we have to remember, those passengers are splitting between TWO routes - one going to Epcot and one going to DHS. So only 2,100 people traveling to DHS and 2,100 traveling to Epcot. This for a system that will probably have a 2,000 - 4,000 person PER HOUR capacity.

You MIGHT get a line in the morning around 8:30 AM as people think they can show up 30 minutes before rope drop to get to the park, but other than that, I suspect lines will never be a problem for this. I foresee the opposite issue in that they run empty much of the day.

 

[skier_pete]

I question how many loading/unloading spots there are. That will make a difference. The other thing is whether this is a one off transport idea, or a thought to the future, with many lines envisioned.

It looks to me right now you will have 4 load spots. One at either end (the parks) then one at the CBT location, and then a second at the CBR location. The CBR location may require a load/unload point - as I picture there is a one line from CBR to DHS and then a second line that goes from CBR-CBT-EPCOT. Without the AOA spur (which it now sounds like is just theoretical) you could also have one single line the whole way as well.

You have to deal with load issues - for instance, if it's a single line from CBR-CBT-EPCOT, you can't load EVERY car at CBR, or else CBT passengers would have trouble getting on - so you end up loading every other car instead. Not really a problem.

As I said, biggest problem is how to deal with shut-downs for weather. You can't strand people at the parks - would need to provide bus transport in the cases of bad weather.

 

[sachilles]

Agreed, I think you'll see a morning and evening line, aside from that pretty mild. The route makes it look like it is not a direct from park to park, so I don't think it will be over capacity through out the day.

If you factor AoA as having access, then it becomes a bigger deal.

If I were to guess. I think you see a separate line from the South Trinidad building to the the DHS building. That will be a quicker and higher capacity line. You then have another line from CBR south to cbr north to the boardwalk lot to IG. That one being smaller capacity.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

The main difference is that gondolas at ski resorts - especially from bases, have to take (a) ALL the skiers up and (B) many of them up multiple times. A ski resort like Tremblant might have 10,000 to 20,000 skiers a day, and they are all loading on that gondola in the morning.

In this case we are talking 1,500 rooms at CBR and say another 600 rooms at CBT. That's 2,100 rooms, and assumes 8,400 people on average at the resort. (Average 4 per room is generous.)

Let's say on any given day HALF the people want to go to Epcot or DHS. (Remember, there's still MK, DAK, the water Parks, DS, other resorts, etc) So let's say HALF the people at the resort want to go to Epcot or DHS on a given day -> that's 4,200 passengers. That's ALL DAY.

Then we have to remember, those passengers are splitting between TWO routes - one going to Epcot and one going to DHS. So only 2,100 people traveling to DHS and 2,100 traveling to Epcot. This for a system that will probably have a 2,000 - 4,000 person PER HOUR capacity.

You MIGHT get a line in the morning around 8:30 AM as people think they can show up 30 minutes before rope drop to get to the park, but other than that, I suspect lines will never be a problem for this. I foresee the opposite issue in that they run empty much of the day.

At least at beginning I bet you get people riding it just to ride it between DHS and EPCOT.

Also if there is a restaurant at the top of the DVC Tower people may take this to get to it (assuming it is like California Grill and open to everyone not just DVC people)

 

[sachilles]

I think like anything, capacity will self regulate lines. Some will want to ride it for the experience. Some will look at the lines for the bus, boat and gondola and decide to gamble which one will be the shortest. Sort of like gambling which line to get in at the grocery store.

 

[skier_pete]

At least at beginning I bet you get people riding it just to ride it between DHS and EPCOT.

Also if there is a restaurant at the top of the DVC Tower people may take this to get to it (assuming it is like California Grill and open to everyone not just DVC people)

I didn't think about that - some people will do it just to do it. However, that really wouldn't interfere with morning / evening crowds, which would really be the only point of capacity issues.

The # of people going to a restaurant will be relatively small. But I think it's a good bet any restaurant would be open to the public...there are ZERO DVC exclusive restaurants on property.

 

[skier_pete]

So I just wanted to put out there:

You now have a resort, likely independent from CBR, with a Epcot Illuminations View and a DIRECT access to both Epcot and DHS.

I think the question has been answered: NOT moderate resort, NOT moderate DVC. Typical upsell DVC, with some high point rooms (Park view) and some standard rooms. (Lake view) typically 16-20 points per night on the standard view, and 20-26 points per night for the theme park view.

As I said many times in this thread - Direct access (not via a bus) is EVERYTHING for paying premium prices.

 

[dlavender]

So I just wanted to put out there:

You now have a resort, likely independent from CBR, with a Epcot Illuminations View and a DIRECT access to both Epcot and DHS.

I think the question has been answered: NOT moderate resort, NOT moderate DVC. Typical upsell DVC, with some high point rooms (Park view) and some standard rooms. (Lake view) typically 16-20 points per night on the standard view, and 20-26 points per night for the theme park view.

As I said many times in this thread - Direct access (not via a bus) is EVERYTHING for paying premium prices.

I hate to admit it, but you guys are right.

They are going deluxe all out with this tower.

I still don't see the value. Even if they add a stormalong 2, top tier restaurant, other upgraded amenities.

Oh well, at least it gives options to current DVC owners?

 

[DisFanDad]

Bahahaha, I just came here to see if people think WDWmagic have been reading this thread and were just trolling us ... but apparently we are running with it

 

[rteetz]

Bahahaha, I just came here to see if people think WDWmagic have been reading this thread and were just trolling us ... but apparently we are running with it

What? There are permits (notices of commencement) that indicate this is happening.

 

[mab2012]

The main difference is that gondolas at ski resorts - especially from bases, have to take (a) ALL the skiers up and (B) many of them up multiple times. A ski resort like Tremblant might have 10,000 to 20,000 skiers a day, and they are all loading on that gondola in the morning.

(A) and (B) are definitely true, or at least close enough. There are several base-to-summit alternatives at Tremblant, but the gondola does most of the heavy lifting in the morning rush. What I wouldn't know is the 10-20K skier estimate. I buy your calculations on the resort numbers, but I have no concept of how many people ski at Tremblant on a typical day, besides that it's usually too many.

Quick search just now tells me that Tremblant has an overall lift capacity of just over 27,000 skiers/hour, so it sounds like you're in the right ballpark. On a busy day with an average 20 min wait at the lifts, that would imply around 20,000-ish skiers across the entire mountain.

I guess the more relevant question is simply what capacity can be expected of a gondola of this sort. Apparently the Tremblant Telecabine has a capacity of 2800/hr. The gondolas at Whistler are around the same. I'm sure it varies with length and configuration and who knows what else, but your 2-4K estimate is probably reasonable.

So... okay. You've convinced me that capacity, at least, shouldn't be a big issue.

 

[DisFanDad]

What? There are permits (notices of commencement) that indicate this is happening.

No no, I totally agree, this is almost certainly happening. Its just funny that I think people generally rejected this in this thread.

Sorry my messaging is way off, I am super loaded up on cough medicine.

Where is Lockedout on this ?

Has he posted yet ?

 

[rteetz]

No no, I totally agree, this is almost certainly happening. Its just funny that I think people generally rejected this in this thread.

Sorry my messaging is way off, I am super loaded up on cough medicine.

Where is Lockedout on this ?

Has he posted yet ?

Ok got it, I agree.

Lockedout is in WDW I believe.

 

[mab2012]

It looks to me right now you will have 4 load spots. One at either end (the parks) then one at the CBT location, and then a second at the CBR location. The CBR location may require a load/unload point - as I picture there is a one line from CBR to DHS and then a second line that goes from CBR-CBT-EPCOT. Without the AOA spur (which it now sounds like is just theoretical) you could also have one single line the whole way as well.

You have to deal with load issues - for instance, if it's a single line from CBR-CBT-EPCOT, you can't load EVERY car at CBR, or else CBT passengers would have trouble getting on - so you end up loading every other car instead. Not really a problem.

As I said, biggest problem is how to deal with shut-downs for weather. You can't strand people at the parks - would need to provide bus transport in the cases of bad weather.

So then what's the impacted area near the BoardWalk parking lot? Is this (whatever "this" is, exactly) just needed to execute the turn in the line? And then we're to assume that the indirect routing past the Boardwalk entrance is just a logistical necessity (ie. for whatever reason, a more direct path to the IG just doesn't work)?

To be clear, lest someone misinterprets: none of those questions are intended as a challenge. Just trying to understand what's being proposed.

 

[jade1]

Lockedout is in WDW I believe.

Again? Awesome to hear, great place to contribute to. Weathers been so nice down there to.