Plane incident at Chicago Midway

[atigeg]

due to an accident at Chicago Midway, the airport is closed until 6am Friday morning. This means Southwest is going to start the day with equipment not at the correct airport. And all these passengers stranded are going to be scrambling for flights.

Southwest flight 1248 from BWI skidded out of the airport onto 55th and Central Avenue. 8 inches of snow this afternoon and poor visibility are contributing factors.

Preliminary reports:
the 98 passengers and 5 crew sufferred no injuries
3-9 passengers in the cars the plane hit are in the hospital

 

[Jon99]

6 year old boy killed

 

[rsschneck]

How terrible! A prayer goes out to all those involved!

 

[Mouse Skywalker]

The 6 year old boy was in a car in the intersection the plane slid into. How sad. So close to Christmas too. As a father of 7 and 4 year olds, I can't imagine anything sadder. My heart goes out to that family.

http://www.southwest.com/flt1248/flt1248_200512090155.html

 

[rie'smom]

It's heartbreaking. God bless the family and all of those involved in the accident.

 

[speakupjc]

God bless them and everyone else involved!!!! As one of the passengers said "it was very difficult to sit in the airplane and know that someone was trapped underneath us." I can't imagine how horrible it was to everyone. It is a real tragedy.

 

[JDietz40]

This certainly is a sad incident to be sitting in your car and have a plane land on top of you must have been terrifying. I was driving or at least attempting to drive home from work around the same time and I am shocked that there were not more cars involved as traffic was almost at a stand still. I can't believe that the airport was even open and that planes were landing. According to one of the local TV weather guys it was snowing at a rate of 3" per hour at MDW at the time of the accident.




John

 

[atigeg]

This is inkkognito, posting under her hubby's ID:

Both he and I frequently fly MDW to MCO (he'll be there today), and those short runways are always on my mind. There is NO room for error, and the street and houses & businesses are literally on the other side of the fence, with no buffer zone. I've been on a plane that had to abort landing at the last possible minute due to a sudden tailwind. Add snow to the mix and you've got a reciple for tragedy. The SW flight had been circling for a while, so my guess is that it might have been getting low on fuel so they needed to either land or divert it and made the choice to bring it in. That happened to us before in a snowstorm, and we had to abort the first landing attempt because a small plane trying to take off ahead of us spun out (thank God no one was injured in the little plane...it just hit a snowbank).

My heart goes out to the family of that little boy. I can't even imagine the pain of their loss. They are in my prayers, and I'm sure they're in the prayers of many, many others too. I will also be praying for the pilot and co-pilot...even though I'm sure they did the best they could, this must be tearing them up. Airline tragedies are always terrible, and this one makes me especially sad because it's on my "home turf" and involved the airline I always fly.

Barb

 

[bicker]

This was a horrible tragedy.

I was just thinking though -- I'm surprised people haven't started clamoring for this airport to be closed, or for it to be limited to smaller jets, as one would expect at an inner-city airport. I know that ORD is very busy, but there are other regional airports that can be utilized. Alternatively, folks could be pushing for the city to use its powers of emminent domain to take ownership over an adequate buffer around the airport, for both public safety and to enhance national security.

I don't think these are good ideas, mind you, but I'm generally considered a pretty conservative guy when it comes to things like this, and I'm used to seeing a lot of people pushing for stuff like this -- and I'm just wondering why no one seems to be rattling the cages with regard to changing things so this kind of problem doesn't happen again. Is this something which "all" people are simply willing to accept?

What am I missing?

 

[inkkognito]

Midway just underwent a major expansion, so it's unlikely that it will ever be closed. They limit the size of planes that can land there (I believe a 757-300 is the largest, and a pilot told me once that it's actually easier to land one of those than a 737 because they can generate more reverse thrust). Problem is, even with the limit, there is no room for error. Thankfully, the odds are still against any problems, but this is not the first time a plane has overshot the runway. But Midway has really "taken off" (no pun intended), so I doubt it will ever be shut down. It would be great if they could acquire land to lengthen the runways but I'm sure the homeowners and businesses would fight that tooth and nail.
Barb

 

[annie1995]

First of all in my opinion, it's not the pilots fault, although I am sure they feel horrible about it, there was probably nothing different that they could have done. I believe the issue falls on Midways shoulders, if the runways weren't salted, cleared, or whatever they do to clean them up enough for the plane to safely land, they should have dirverted to Ohare, or some where earlier. I heard one passenger say something to the effect of, If my car would have problems stopping in this weather, what makes them think a plane would stop any better. My heart breaks for the family of the six year old , and everyone else involved. Hopefully someone will make something good come of this, so no one will ever have to go through this again.

 

[JDietz40]

Midway just underwent a major expansion, so it's unlikely that it will ever be closed. They limit the size of planes that can land there (I believe a 757-300 is the largest, and a pilot told me once that it's actually easier to land one of those than a 737 because they can generate more reverse thrust). Problem is, even with the limit, there is no room for error. Thankfully, the odds are still against any problems, but this is not the first time a plane has overshot the runway. But Midway has really "taken off" (no pun intended), so I doubt it will ever be shut down. It would be great if they could acquire land to lengthen the runways but I'm sure the homeowners and businesses would fight that tooth and nail.
Barb

I totally agree with you but I don't think they could expand Midway even if they wanted too without completely reconfiguring the entire area. The airport is bordered by major roads and it would create a traffic nightmare to close those off.

Of course with our mayor you never know he may get tired of the airport and carve big X's in the runways in the middle of the night like he did to Meigs field . The private airport on the shore of Lake Michigan.




John

 

[Lewisc]

You're entitled to an opinion, in this case you may even be right. BUT you don't have any facts so your "opinion" is really nothing more than speculation.

We don't know if there was pilot error, mechanical problem with the plane, problems with runways or something like a gust of wind.

Following is a quote from a NTSB board member.

“Often, the first guess is not correct,” Conners said. “So, we’re not going to guess. We’re going to focus on facts and science and data.” Among other things, routine toxicology tests on the pilots were planned, she said.

First of all in my opinion, it's not the pilots fault, although I am sure they feel horrible about it, there was probably nothing different that they could have done. I believe the issue falls on Midways shoulders, if the runways weren't salted, cleared, or whatever they do to clean them up enough for the plane to safely land, they should have dirverted to Ohare, or some where earlier. I heard one passenger say something to the effect of, If my car would have problems stopping in this weather, what makes them think a plane would stop any better. My heart breaks for the family of the six year old , and everyone else involved. Hopefully someone will make something good come of this, so no one will ever have to go through this again.

 

[bicker]

Midway just underwent a major expansion, so it's unlikely that it will ever be closed. They limit the size of planes that can land there (I believe a 757-300 is the largest, and a pilot told me once that it's actually easier to land one of those than a 737 because they can generate more reverse thrust).

Seems to me that that's more than enough foundation for some folks to basically require the more capable jets (which incidently would include 717s, I think).

 

[manning]

This was a horrible tragedy.

I was just thinking though -- I'm surprised people haven't started clamoring for this airport to be closed, or for it to be limited to smaller jets, as one would expect at an inner-city airport. I know that ORD is very busy, but there are other regional airports that can be utilized. Alternatively, folks could be pushing for the city to use its powers of emminent domain to take ownership over an adequate buffer around the airport, for both public safety and to enhance national security.

I don't think these are good ideas, mind you, but I'm generally considered a pretty conservative guy when it comes to things like this, and I'm used to seeing a lot of people pushing for stuff like this -- and I'm just wondering why no one seems to be rattling the cages with regard to changing things so this kind of problem doesn't happen again. Is this something which "all" people are simply willing to accept?

What am I missing?

You have not dealt with this mayor. He runs the city. He tore up the runway at Miegs field in the middle of the night. Mayors of surrounding suburbs could not prevent him from expanding O'Hare.

 

[manning]

I totally agree with you but I don't think they could expand Midway even if they wanted too without completely reconfiguring the entire area. The airport is bordered by major roads and it would create a traffic nightmare to close those off.

Of course with our mayor you never know he may get tired of the airport and carve big X's in the runways in the middle of the night like he did to Meigs field . The private airport on the shore of Lake Michigan.




John

Midway is 1 square mile. Immediately on all four sides are 4 lane roads undivided with sidewalks. There isn't room for grass to grow. You have home/businesses on the roads. IE Airport,fence,sidewalk,road,sidewalk,houses/businesses. Some of the hangers are next to the street.

I grew up there when prop planes (before jets) and the pilots living around there would say Midway wasn't a fun place to land. One pilot said it was almost like landing on an aircraft carrier. And that was way back when.

I landed there once on a prop plane. As soon as we touched down the props were reversed. If you weren't wearing a seat belt you would slide down the aisle from the back into the cockpit.

Boeing 757 also fly in/out of there.

 

[annie1995]

You're entitled to an opinion, in this case you may even be right. BUT you don't have any facts so your "opinion" is really nothing more than speculation.

We don't know if there was pilot error, mechanical problem with the plane, problems with runways or something like a gust of wind.

Following is a quote from a NTSB board member.
Often, the first guess is not correct,” Conners said. “So, we’re not going to guess. We’re going to focus on facts and science and data.” Among other things, routine toxicology tests on the pilots were planned, she said.

This was in an MSNBC article earlier today that states that
Crushable concrete recommended
Safety experts say such airports can guard against accidents by instead using beds of crushable concrete that can slow an aircraft if it slides off the end of a runway.The concrete beds — called Engineered Material Arresting Systems, or EMAS — are in place at the end of 18 runways at 14 airports. They have stopped three dangerous overruns three times since May 1999 at Kennedy Airport in New York.

The following quote followed the above information written in the article.

“Certainly Midway airport officials should have already been trying to come up with something similar to this,” said Jim Hall, NTSB chairman from 1993 to 2001. “There’s really no margin for error at the end of that runway.”

So it does seem that Midway has some responsibility, it they did a recent expansion, why was this not included? It was well known that they have a smaller runway, the expansion should have included some safety measures.

 

[manning]

This was in an MSNBC article earlier today that states that
Crushable concrete recommended
Safety experts say such airports can guard against accidents by instead using beds of crushable concrete that can slow an aircraft if it slides off the end of a runway.The concrete beds — called Engineered Material Arresting Systems, or EMAS — are in place at the end of 18 runways at 14 airports. They have stopped three dangerous overruns three times since May 1999 at Kennedy Airport in New York.

The following quote followed the above information written in the article.

“Certainly Midway airport officials should have already been trying to come up with something similar to this,” said Jim Hall, NTSB chairman from 1993 to 2001. “There’s really no margin for error at the end of that runway.”

So it does seem that Midway has some responsibility, it they did a recent expansion, why was this not included? It was well known that they have a smaller runway, the expansion should have included some safety measures.

It was an upgrade and reconfiguration of the terminals. To lengthen the runways would be cost prohibitive. Everything is built right up to the boundary of the airport. There is no buffer zone like you see at newer airports. You come over the fence and you are over the runway. You sit at a light at the intersection and one of those planes come over you can count the rivets. The barriers is the only way they can go.

 

[Jon99]

JMO, but they should have spent the money they did on Midway on Peotone...

 

[Obi-Wan Pinobi]

It's been years since I've flown into Midway (the mid to late 1990s), but even then I thought the plane was going to land in someone's back yard.

Anyone that's curious and wants to get a good idea of what it looks like, find Midway airport on maps.google.com and choose the satellite option. The airport is boxed in on all sides with no room to expand or lengthen the runways. In fact, it appears the major runways form an X in the square. Any lenghtening would involve reconfiguring at least two roads.