Pi --please Don't Close Comedy Warehouse And Adventurers' Club

[Waltsworld]

I'm actually very excited about the changes at Pleasure Island. I never got a Disney like feeling walking through PI. I own at Saratoga Springs too and only enjoyed strolling over as far as the Market Place. I'm sure the new plan will make up for those clubs that you will miss. I'm sure Disney won't disappoint.

 

[disneycrazed139]

Posted by Chuck....

<<<Keeping the thread DVC related, as far as affecting SSR, if the primary reason you purchased was for the proximity to PI...it was made clear from the beginning, even to us that purchased in the early years at OKW, that we were purchasing the right to use our home resort, nothing more>>>

I disagree concerning this statement. Your decision to purchase the Disney Vacation Club may have been just that because there were no other local amentities related to your choice of it. However, marketing materials for SSR included--actually even highlighted the fireworks at DTD, so although nothing stays the same--it seems a little early to abolish part of the sell for SSR.

I am sure that most DVC owners do not buy at their home resort for the entirely for the structure of the resort alone, but for the ambience that is created by, not only its amenities, but its proximity to other amentities. BCV to Epcot and MGM, BWV to MGM and Epcot. That is a HUGE part of the sell, and there would be an outcry of disproportion were a park to close. Now, that may be an extreme comparison....and PI isn't THE only reason I purchased SSR. I love the feel of SSR, I love the walk to DTD, I love the theme, and the DVC membership. However, you buy WHERE you want to own, and location is not just some random space--it is about what exists in and surounding that random space.

This was a vacation decision based on many factors. For me it's a bait and switch. Maybe not for others.

On another note, as far as "gangs" coming into PI, I have been there too many times to count, and don't think I've ever seen "gangs" in the clubs. I have seen groups of teens on the Westside more, but that isn't PI. There is little in PI except the clubs, which you do need to pay to get into, and I don't think gangs are spending money like that.

 

[bicker]

You're misusing the term "bait and switch". This isn't such a case. The specification always made clear that changes such as this were possible.

 

[Chuck S]

Posted by Chuck....

<<<Keeping the thread DVC related, as far as affecting SSR, if the primary reason you purchased was for the proximity to PI...it was made clear from the beginning, even to us that purchased in the early years at OKW, that we were purchasing the right to use our home resort, nothing more>>>

I disagree concerning this statement. Your decision to purchase the Disney Vacation Club may have been just that because there were no other local amentities related to your choice of it. However, marketing materials for SSR included--actually even highlighted the fireworks at DTD, so although nothing stays the same--it seems a little early to abolish part of the sell for SSR.

I am sure that most DVC owners do not buy at their home resort for the entirely for the structure of the resort alone, but for the ambience that is created by, not only its amenities, but its proximity to other amentities. BCV to Epcot and MGM, BWV to MGM and Epcot. That is a HUGE part of the sell, and there would be an outcry of disproportion were a park to close. Now, that may be an extreme comparison....and PI isn't THE only reason I purchased SSR. I love the feel of SSR, I love the walk to DTD, I love the theme, and the DVC membership. However, you buy WHERE you want to own, and location is not just some random space--it is about what exists in and surounding that random space.

This was a vacation decision based on many factors. For me it's a bait and switch. Maybe not for others.

On another note, as far as "gangs" coming into PI, I have been there too many times to count, and don't think I've ever seen "gangs" in the clubs. I have seen groups of teens on the Westside more, but that isn't PI. There is little in PI except the clubs, which you do need to pay to get into, and I don't think gangs are spending money like that.

It can't be bait & switch when the contract clearly specifies that Disney World can change, and that your purchase should not be based upon what is currently in the area. While I understand your disappointment, there is no bait and switch here at all. Disney could just as easily build a garbage dump next to my OKW, or put mini-storage units next to BWV. All are unlikely, but contracts do allow them to do that.

But to think that an entertainment venue and public area would not be subject to changes on a fairly routine basis is unrealistic. Look at how many changes have been made to the parks, even AK, since they opened. DtD has changed much since OKW opened. Westside was added, Cirque was built, the restaurants and shops at the Marketplace have all changed, some several times. Restaurants and clubs at PI have changed, again some several times. Remember Fireworks Factory, then Wild Horse, and now Raglan Road?

In just the marketplace, I can think of the following shops and restaurants that have changed, Chef's Mickey's is now Rainforest, Resortwear is now Goofy's Candy, Goofy's Grill is Ghiradelli, Donald's Dairy Dip and Arribas Brothers is Lego. World of Disney (the original) is Team Mickey and a swimwear place. Gourmet Pantry is Earl of Sandwich, Minnie Mia's Pizza is Wolfgang Puck Express; the changes are endless, ongoing, and should be expected.

The proposed South American restaurant sounds pretty interesting, I think.

 

[MagicalPins]

I bought 200 points at SSR due to its location being close to the Adventurers Club. The only reason I have not started looking into resale yet is because I have to wait until Grand Californian sales start. After September 27th, the only value my membership has to me is the fact that I can get some points at the Grand Californian during their Pre-Sale. Other than that, its completely worthless. There is no reason for me to return to Walt Disney World. There is nothing else unique to draw me in and keep me coming back for more.

And it is a bait and switch of sorts. Attract people with highly theme night time entertainment for 19 years and then pull it out from under them and open a store.

I have always said that the only thing missing from Disneyland was a copy of the Adventurers Club and always encouraged Disneyland regulars to go to Walt Disney World to experience that magical place.

As Walt once said "Here in Florida, we have something special we never enjoyed at Disneyland...the blessing of size. There's enough land here to hold all the ideas and plans we can possibly imagine."

Its too bad that their Bold New Vision of a new shopping opportunities dose not follow Walt's vision of having enough land for all the ideas and plans they could possibly imagine.

And also, on the subject of getting rid of the Adventurers Club for more "family friendly" areas (is Disney getting complaints from families saying they can't find enough family friend areas to go to?!?!), Walt Disney said it best when he said "Your dead if you aim only for kids. Adults are only kids grown up, anyway."

 

[hlyntunstl]

If you have a concern or wish to express the fact that you are disappointed with the closing of Comedy Warehouse and Adventurer's Club, you should definitely send a note regardless of whether you expect a positive result or response. If you feel that this impacts your current and future DVC purchases, let them know how and why (although I agree that the only guarantee was for a room). While your lone comment may not make an impact, if thousands of people make the same comment, it will get noticed and may lead to a change. If everyone says "they won't listen to my note" and never speaks out, the silence will allow them to believe that everyone agrees with their decision and there definitely won't be any change.

Sorry for the soapbox but I am always sad when people have concerns/complaints and don't express them regardless of the situation. It's giving tacit approval and I like being able to say that I at least mentioned my concerns (and yes, I did send a note). It's the main reason I always complete surveys.

 

[BostonDisneyKid]

On another note, as far as "gangs" coming into PI, I have been there too many times to count, and don't think I've ever seen "gangs" in the clubs. I have seen groups of teens on the Westside more, but that isn't PI. There is little in PI except the clubs, which you do need to pay to get into, and I don't think gangs are spending money like that.

I believe I saw a gang there last summer in the BET club. I cannot say for certain as I didnt speak with them but it seemed obvious when there were 20-25 people together (aged 21-25 I'd say) and they all have an identifying "color" as part of their wardrobe. Luckily they all were wearing the same color so their was no trouble and honestly, they were just having a good time dancing and talking. But once I noticed the "colors" on "all 20-25 of them", we quickly finished our drinks and left.

 

[wildernessDad]

I believe I saw a gang there last summer in the BET club. I cannot say for certain as I didnt speak with them but it seemed obvious when there were 20-25 people together (aged 21-25 I'd say) and they all have an identifying "color" as part of their wardrobe. Luckily they all were wearing the same color so their was no trouble and honestly, they were just having a good time dancing and talking. But once I noticed the "colors" on "all 20-25 of them", we quickly finished our drinks and left.

What do you mean? Haven't you seen the gang element in the AC!?! All those old **rts with their kids and younger, clean cut individuals? Those were gang members in disguise.

 

[Rat-a-too-ee]

My life has been very hectic lately, and I have not been keeping up with Disney News.

Today, I got a postcard from Disney to let me know that the Adventurer's Club and Comedy Warehouse are closing in Septemeber, and my heart SUNK!

Those were two of my all-time favs at WDW. So sad to see them go. The only thing that has been more tragic for me is when they messed with the original Journey Into Your Imagination ride, as Figment is very special to me.

I cannot believe that AC and CW are going to be dust in a few short months. How awful!

 

[BroganMc]

And it is a bait and switch of sorts. Attract people with highly theme night time entertainment for 19 years and then pull it out from under them and open a store.

I think that's a valid use of the term. Fact is part of the sales literature for SSR, offline and online, included the surrounding amenities of the resort. People are constantly harping on BWV and BCV's proximity to EPCOT & DHS just as VWL had the "closest to MK" tagline. (BTW, aren't we all wondering what will happen with that resort's popularity when BLT opens it's doors? Or are VWL enthusiasts hoping it gets a lot quieter there, especially come Christmas? )

And while the particular stores and restaurants have changed, we haven't really seen a particular element taken away from DTD. In this case, we're being told the night time adult-only venues will disappear completely and nothing remotely similar will replace it. All you really have are drinks to entertain adults only.

So while I can understand the business sense behind this move (the clubs have not been as popular since the open access), I also see it as bit of a cheat. It's probably felt most with the comedy clubs since those were more entertainment and more popular.

And yes, I've been one who has already expressed dismay to Disney directly. FWIW, many of them are as confused and dismayed as we are. But in the end we're all at the mercy of corporate. Right now it is just not clear what they intend to do to improve the area.

I believe I saw a gang there last summer in the BET club. I cannot say for certain as I didnt speak with them but it seemed obvious when there were 20-25 people together (aged 21-25 I'd say) and they all have an identifying "color" as part of their wardrobe. Luckily they all were wearing the same color so their was no trouble and honestly, they were just having a good time dancing and talking. But once I noticed the "colors" on "all 20-25 of them", we quickly finished our drinks and left.

Call my Pollyanna, but is that really enough evidence to determine a "gang"? A bunch of people gathered together wearing the same colors could describe any number of cheerleading and other groups we routinely see down there. Heck, I've seen several multi-generational "gangs" going about sporting the same red t-shirt with "X Family 200X" emblazoned across. Must have been a mafia gang. The old lady boss was a right mean one when crossed, I tell ya!

I know there were several news stories a few months ago about crime in DTD. (One young couple reported being abducted but it later turned out they went on a drug buy offsite and got in trouble.) But there is so much security around, you never really see any trouble. Kids in strollers are being pushed through PI at 12:30am whenever I've been there. (And yes I did wonder about the parenting decisions those parents were making.)

Has there ever been a reported incident of violence in the area or is it all just urban myth?

 

[tjcj]

While the new park sounds cool (but major $$) it will not be anything like the AC.
Disney Night Kindom sounds cool with a new "super AC" as its entrance (go chef!). But I just cant think that the same atmosphere can be reproduced. The current AC is a one of a kind experience and I'm gonna miss it. I guess I have to see if I can squeeze out one more trip before the end of Sept.
The comedy club was cool as well and I bet something like it remains at DTD.

As far as the rest of PI you can take it. If they replace the rest of the clubs and put in some upgraded resturants the area will be that much better!! I never have been a fan of most of the sit down resturants at DTD and would look forward to some new options.

Sooo Im holding off selling my SSR points right now but the finger is on the trigger

 

[Chuck S]

Call my Pollyanna, but is that really enough evidence to determine a "gang"? A bunch of people gathered together wearing the same colors could describe any number of cheerleading and other groups we routinely see down there. Heck, I've seen several multi-generational "gangs" going about sporting the same red t-shirt with "X Family 200X" emblazoned across. Must have been a mafia gang. The old lady boss was a right mean one when crossed, I tell ya!

To think that any major metroplex in America doesn't have a gang problem, and to believe that anyone from a major city couldn't tell the difference between gang related colors and "The Jones' Family Does Disney", is (to use your own words) very Pollyanna.

I also wonder if the vast majority of SSR owners will even notice that PI is gone? Many may even welcome the change.

 

[bigsmooth]

To think that any major metroplex in America doesn't have a gang problem, and to believe that anyone from a major city couldn't tell the difference between gang related colors and "The Jones' Family Does Disney", is (to use your own words) very Pollyanna.

I also wonder if the vast majority of SSR owners will even notice that PI is gone? Many may even welcome the change.

I do agree with you, and I think most SSR owners will appreciate the change. And my point is that I most likely will welcome the change (depending of course of a bunch of unknowns right now), however I lament the loss of things that are uniquely disney such as the Adventurer's Club. So I'm on the fence a bit. Part of the reason I like Disney is that they have done a good job in the past developing offerings that appeal to different age groups, different types of people. You see that reflected in the opinions expressed here on what appeals and doesn't appeal to people in terms of DVC offerings. While I won't miss the standard 'dance club' and look forward to more 'Raglan Road' and 'Sosa' type offerings, I also like the idea of the highly themed adult offering such as the Adventurer's club. I regret only getting to experience it once. My hope is that they will find some sort of replacement, some sort of 'Jellyrolls' type offering for DtD, because as an SSR owner I do appreciate some sort of adult type entertainment outside of a restaurant/pub type offering. And I do wish that offering would have some sort of only in Disney type appeal to it.

Perhaps someday they will find a place for the Adventurer's club. It really was the most different of the PI offerings anyways and I could see the rumors proving true that it someday becomes part of something else.

 

[crisi]

I think that's a valid use of the term. Fact is part of the sales literature for SSR, offline and online, included the surrounding amenities of the resort. People are constantly harping on BWV and BCV's proximity to EPCOT & DHS just as VWL had the "closest to MK" tagline. (BTW, aren't we all wondering what will happen with that resort's popularity when BLT opens it's doors? Or are VWL enthusiasts hoping it gets a lot quieter there, especially come Christmas? )

Unless they happen to suddenly have a glut of rooms nights people have purchased but don't use, VWL won't get any quieter. DVC is sold to operate pretty much at capacity - if its not running near capacity, people aren't using their points.

Eventually, Disney will close Jellyrolls and turn it into something else. And a set of BWV owners will be very disappointed that their tradition has disappeared. I even suspect that 20 years from now there will be no (gasp!) Beaches and Cream. But Disney is always changing. If your family tradition was a character dinner at Liberty Tree Tavern, you are going to be changing your tradition.

I'll miss the concept of the Adventurers Club - in practice I found it disappointing - overcrowded and not terribly pleasant - no place to sit and wait for the show in a standing room only club - couldn't even get to the bar for a drink. The one CW show I saw had humor not to my taste. Then we had kids and for me it was over - my husband went once after that. I suspect the AC - or something like it - will come back in some form - though perhaps not over in DTD. I also suspect that the restaurants that they put in will weight towards having an entertainment component - like Raglan Road and House of Blues.

I do think its bad form of Disney to be closing the most popular places on PI so shortly has "sold out." Whether I liked PI or not, for a lot of SSR owners it was a feature of the resort that did encourage their purchase.

(I wouldn't be surprised to see the SSR Spa go in the next decade either. And again, I will think its bad form for Disney to sell SSR with the spa location as a feature and close it, but I don't think a spa there is sustainable long term).

ETA: I wonder if a factor in this was the complaints DVC got about "undesirable foot traffic" from DTD from SSR owners. We've had several threads here where SSR owners really wanted to be gated, most often the complaint is buses, but on occation its the 'unwashed masses' - and particularly that undesirable suspected gang population from PI.

 

[jarestel]

I even suspect that 20 years from now there will be no (gasp!) Beaches and Cream.

Say it ain't so, Crisi! Where we will get our frozen hamburgers & supermarket ice cream?

 

[crisi]

Say it ain't so, Crisi! Where we will get our frozen hamburgers & supermarket ice cream?

Someone knows me.......

 

[disneycrazed139]

I will reiterate to all who have commented on this that closing all the adult entertainment venues (and appropriate for tween/teens as well) is a bait and switch as has been said.

When you have attracted people with marketing materials that have underscored highly theme night time entertainment/fireworks, etc. and then abolish it at the selling out point of the resort, a misrepresentation exists.
contract or no contract. I don't know if it is bait and switch, per se...but it is definitely unscrupulous. I think if Disney made it CLEAR in their advertising that the fireworks, etc., would not be part of the good advertised--meaning on the inside cover of this material. Is there a disclaimer? I don't think so. It's existence in fine print isn't good enough.

"bait and switch is a form of fraud in which the party putting forth the fraud lures in customers by advertising a product or service at an unprofitably low price, then reveals to potential customers that the advertised good is not available but that a substitute is. The goal of the bait-and-switch is to convince some buyers to purchase the substitute good as a means of avoiding disappointment over not getting the bait, or as a way to recover sunk costs expended to try to obtain the bait....
In the United States, courts have held that the purveyor using a bait and switch operation may be subject to a lawsuit by customers for false advertising"

Source: Wikipedia/uncited

 

[bicker]

But Disney is always changing.

Absolutely. This is what everyone needs to keep in mind. A static WDW is a dying WDW.

I don't know if it is bait and switch, per se...but it is definitely unscrupulous.

But it isn't. When you say, "This is the type of stuff that is nearby. And someday we may change it." Then there is nothing unscrupulous about changing it.

Is there a disclaimer? I don't think so. It's existence in fine print isn't good enough.

Incorrect. Its existence is the written materials you have to sign as a member is more than good enough.

Since there is no fraud, there is no bait and switch. All we have here is some folks holding unfounded expectations that something they like will never change.

 

[Chuck S]

So you realy expected no changed whatsoever to Pleasure Island during the 50 year course of the SSR contracts, serioiusly? You never felt it was even a remote possibility that clubs would ever change or be removed?

Honestly, not all the rides are operatig at Disneyland that were there on opening day, either. The flying saucers are gone, the movie props from 20,000 Leagues are gone (replaced by Monsanto Adventure Thru Inner Space, replaced by Star Tours) CircleRama is gone, Indian Village, the Chicken of the Sea Pirate Ship, motor boat cruise, skyway, etc. In fact, most of those disappeared within 10 years of DL opening. But you honestly believed the Adventures Club would never change, and that is why you puchased SSR, even though the contracts state otherwise?

 

[gkrykewy]

Keeping the thread DVC related, as far as affecting SSR, if the primary reason you purchased was for the proximity to PI...it was made clear from the beginning, even to us that purchased in the early years at OKW, that we were purchasing the right to use our home resort, nothing more. It was explained that Disney could change/close any attraction or park, and that you should not purchase DVC based upon the assumption that Disney World would always be the Disney World we know and love. While I do understand your disappointment (Kungaloosh!), there is really not much that can be done to stop these changes.

Obviously you're technically right that Disney has covered themselves with the DVC contract language, but I don't think anyone is arguing that contracts have been breached and DVC points should be refunded. Something can be a "bait and switch" without being a breach of contract. If Disney were to fill in the lake between SSR and DTD and open the resulting muddy hole up to ATVs, you wouldn't expect SSR owners to just review their contract, chuckle to themselves, and admire Disney's contractual acumen.

Technically you are correct that by the letter of the contract Disney could close all the parks, tear up all the roads to and from the resorts, etc, but the line for what would/should be acceptable to members is well short of that. If AKV were to remove all the animals, for example, AKV membership would be upset, and I bet we would have some grounds for a legal challenge that would at least require settlement or concessions.

Just making a general point - I don't really care about the PI clubs either way.