Photo Sensors on Point and Shoot Digital Cameras

[chirurgeon]

I have heard that even thought the mega pixels go up, the sensors have not improved on the cameras. Are there any PNSs cameras that have improved their sensors to match their mega pixels?

I am think about getting one for my next vacation for the days that I don't want to carry my DSLR.

Kim

 

[Master Mason]

Well, the sensors have improved to allow more megapixals, and the processors have improved to handle more and more. However, they are just putting more on the same size sensor, so in some cases it is becoming counter productive.

If your used to a dSLR, I personally don't think your ever really goint to be happy with a p&s in anything but brightly lit, high apeture shots, where most cameras will do fairly well.

 

[Groucho]

Well... the sensors are getting better, but not bigger. The problem is that they're cramming in more megapixels, so if you've very lucky, you'll get about the same low-light performance as the old camera. That's a big if - usually, the advancements seem to be more in noise reduction (blurring the details) than sensor technology.

The usual sensor size for PnS cameras stays the same (1/2.5" for the vast majority) just as DSLR sensors stay about the same (APC or thereabouts for the majority), yet each one has megapixel counts going up at the same time... even with advancements, you're still talking about 15x the surface area on a DSLR sensor. It will never catch up without some serious increase in sensor size.

Fuji's SuperCCD HR is larger than average for a point-n-shoot, and Sony have a new SLR-like PnS that has a larger-than-usual sensor also. But they're still a long, long ways from even the smaller 4:3 DSLR sensor that Olympus uses.

 

[SharonLowe]

I'll put my Canon G9 up against most dSLRs any day, especially at the low ISOs and it shoots in RAW too. In fact, it will be the only camera I take to WDW from now on (I don't care if I can't get those Haunted Mansion ride shots). I've added a wide angle and telephoto screw on lens to its kit so with those on, it doesn't quite fit in my pocket but the whole thing is way less cumbersome than my 1DsMkII kit and does a great job. With the lensmate adapter on front, I can add a polarizing filter and it also can do decent IR with an IR filter.

 

[webshark3]

Sigma DP1. First compact to use a APS-C (large) sensor. Prints can be blown up A0 beautifully. Of course, it's not recommended for beginners.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0802/08020301sigmadp1gallery.asp

 

[Groucho]

The DP1 is a whole different animal... missing many of the features that a casual photographer would want in a PnS. I don't think someone who's not really into photography would be happy with it at all.

Not to say that it's a bad camera. But I think that it's such a niche camera that it'll never gain much popularity. But I'm sure those who want one and understand it will be happy with it. (But I'm also sure they'd like it even more with a faster lens and maybe some zoom, and a lower price tag!)

 

[boBQuincy]

It's almost like Sigma is setting it up to fail so they can say "see, no one wants a large sensor on a P&S".

Why else would they make a camera that has such promise yet has none of the features that it's primary market demands? And at about the same price as an entry level dSLR?

With a 24-70 f/2.8 this could be a Leica alternative for those of us that don't have $$$$$. C'mon Sigma!

 

[tinkergrumpybuns]

I'll put my Canon G9 up against most dSLRs any day, especially at the low ISOs and it shoots in RAW too. In fact, it will be the only camera I take to WDW from now on (I don't care if I can't get those Haunted Mansion ride shots). I've added a wide angle and telephoto screw on lens to its kit so with those on, it doesn't quite fit in my pocket but the whole thing is way less cumbersome than my 1DsMkII kit and does a great job. With the lensmate adapter on front, I can add a polarizing filter and it also can do decent IR with an IR filter.

Sharon, I just purchased the G7 (it was the demo model at small brick& mortar). I have not thought of getting the lens etc. trying to figure out how to set it up for bracketing? Any thoughts. I think they are the same in all respects except for the lack of RAW on mine.
I picked up a lowepro bag ( edit 100) and I think it will work fine. Would hold camera, extra battery and cards, and probably lens and is pretty compact.
Any pointers you can share about the camera would be appreciated!
Nancy:

 

[webshark3]

The DP1 is a whole different animal... missing many of the features that a casual photographer would want in a PnS. I don't think someone who's not really into photography would be happy with it at all.

Agreed, but the OP asked about MP and large sensors. Sigma is targeting the "experienced" who value image quality. You won't get good JPGs from it.

Not to say that it's a bad camera. But I think that it's such a niche camera that it'll never gain much popularity. But I'm sure those who want one and understand it will be happy with it. (But I'm also sure they'd like it even more with a faster lens and maybe some zoom, and a lower price tag!)

To whom it was targeted, it's already a huge success. Those who know it, don't want zoom (IQ tradeoff). The prime lens is SHARP(!). It'll never be mainstream popular, but then again, neither is most pro gear.

 

[webshark3]

It's almost like Sigma is setting it up to fail so they can say "see, no one wants a large sensor on a P&S".

Actually, they saw the niche, and made their attempt to fill it. And di an INCREDIBLE job with image quality in a small package.

Why else would they make a camera that has such promise yet has none of the features that it's primary market demands? And at about the same price as an entry level dSLR?

You need to understand what it is and what it isn't. Price up a Canon DSLR with a "L" prime lens. Now try to cram it in your pocket. $799 is a bargain to the people the camera is targeting. Simga's not one to run with the "market demand". We don't need more megapixels, and I don't need smile detection, or a "food" mode.

With a 24-70 f/2.8 this could be a Leica alternative for those of us that don't have $$$$$. C'mon Sigma!

And it would cost $$$$$ and be 4 times the size. Sigma been very vocal about design constraints and the prime f4 lens.

 

[chirurgeon]

Thank you for the replies. I don't think the Sigma is for me. I don't think I want to put that much money in a PNS. I may be leaning toward one of the Canons. A lot of time until I go back to Disney. And who know, I may just take just the DSLR if I can find a better neckstrap. Soft, no hard edges, not too hot on my neck. Or maybe I'll just get a cheap stroller to carry the camera bag for the long days in the park.

Kim

 

[Master Mason]

Thank you for the replies. I don't think the Sigma is for me. I don't think I want to put that much money in a PNS. I may be leaning toward one of the Canons. A lot of time until I go back to Disney. And who know, I may just take just the DSLR if I can find a better neckstrap. Soft, no hard edges, not too hot on my neck. Or maybe I'll just get a cheap stroller to carry the camera bag for the long days in the park.

Kim

That's easy Optech There are cheaper places to buy it from but this will tell you about it. HIGHLY reccomend

 

[webshark3]

I only mentioned Sigma, as I didn't know your level, and you wanted to replace a DSLR. (The DP1 is replacing my DSLR for Disney ).

My runner up would be a Canon G9.

 

[SharonLowe]

Sharon, I just purchased the G7 (it was the demo model at small brick& mortar). I have not thought of getting the lens etc. trying to figure out how to set it up for bracketing? Any thoughts. I think they are the same in all respects except for the lack of RAW on mine.
I picked up a lowepro bag ( edit 100) and I think it will work fine. Would hold camera, extra battery and cards, and probably lens and is pretty compact.
Any pointers you can share about the camera would be appreciated!
Nancy:

My G9 has an auto-bracket setting, which I have even used handheld and had it work pretty well; takes 3 shots +1, 0, and -1. I have not checked to see whether I can change the bracket amount.

Go to www.lensmate.com for some good accessories for it and you'll see the adapter that goes on the front allowing you to use filters and add on lenses. They have nice comparisons of the various add on lenses too.

 

[tinkergrumpybuns]

My G9 has an auto-bracket setting, which I have even used handheld and had it work pretty well; takes 3 shots +1, 0, and -1. I have not checked to see whether I can change the bracket amount.

Sharon, thanks for the lensmate link,I'll go drool for a bit later.
Hmm, I still can't find how to set it to bracket in the menu, or the booklet.
Can you tell me where it is on G9... doubt they would change in in one model to next?
Nancy

 

[Groucho]

To whom it was targeted, it's already a huge success. Those who know it, don't want zoom (IQ tradeoff). The prime lens is SHARP(!). It'll never be mainstream popular, but then again, neither is most pro gear.

No doubt it's a decent lens - but let's be realistic, it's outputting less than five megapixels. Most lenses designed for an APC-size sensor can easily produce very sharp pictures at such a resolution.

Yeah, I know, it's capturing 4.whatever mp three times, but at the end of the day, you're left with a 4.whatever mp image.

I am a big fan of the concept of the Foveon sensor but I am not convinced by the execution. They'll need to get it outputting at least 10 mp (by standard measurements, not by Sigma's marketing measurements) and have lower levels of noise - at least as good as Olympus is getting from the 4:3 sensors. If they can do that, the sensor design may have a chance at breaking into the mainstream.

I'd love to see them do it - like 3-strip Technicolor for the digital era! - but I suspect there are serious technological limitations that are keeping it at the level where it is now. (The fact that it was delayed like it was is a pretty good testament to the technological issues!)

 

[webshark3]

Groucho,

All I have to say, is get to a photo show where Sigma is (PMA passed). A0 size prints. Easily match any 8-10mp DSLR on the market, and easily used for pro work. Even gives a 5D a run for it's money. ,

Yes, you can take the 4mp (resolution) and output it to A0 without losing anything. You still can't say that about most DSLRS.

And the DP1 is getting much lower noise than the SD14. So much that the next DSLR release will be based of the DP1's processing.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1027&message=27247980