~Philadelphia Marathon 11/23/08~

[Optimator]

Busy posting day,

Chester - I'm glad you've got a nice list of lessons learned. I've got a few of those myself. I figure that if I train for 20 or 30 more races I MAY have half and idea what I'm doing (probably not though).

I'm very jealous about you running RFTT. DW and I were supposed to go down for the weekend for our anniversary. Got a great rate at Poly and everything but it didn't work out.

Jodi - Pretty cool about meeting a fellow MCMer. Good job with your run. I hope you didn't hurt anyone.

Colleen - At the risk of getting beat to a bloody pulp by Jodi, I have to admit I don't have enough experience/knowledge with Canadian Chiro-accu-riverflowing-ologists to really know what to think. Let's just say I'm a little cynical by nature. It'll be interesting to hear what ortho #3 has to say.

How did your friends running in Chicago make out? How about your sister?

Dave - I'm glad your dad is back in. Hopefully he knows that it means a lot to you for him to be there.

Sara - Wow, your DH is one considerate guy (or you really let him have it about keeping you awake ). No worries about the heat. I have it on good authority that it will be a lovely morning for running. Actually, I have no clue what I'm talking about and it very well may be hot enough to make a grilled cheese sandwich on the sidewalk.

Are your kids in the age range to do the kid's fun run on Saturday (6-13 yo)?
2 bucks to enter and they get a T-shirt, medal, goodie bag, and snacks.


I got in a nice 6+ miles Monday morning. I was scheduled for 5 but felt O.K. so ran a little more interesting loop. I didn't start until around 9:30 but got lucky with fog/overcast. I cleared just as I finished and really started to heat up.

I'm going to try to take a little different approach to tapering this time. I felt a little stale after a 3 week taper in May so I think I'll just cut back on the 2 weekend LRs (12 miles?) and keep the weekday runs the same for the next 2 weeks. Then just coast with a few short runs the week before just to keep loose. Of course, that would all change if I feel any little nagging aches or pains or excessive fatigue.

Any thoughts?

 

[princessmomma]

Colleen - At the risk of getting beat to a bloody pulp by Jodi, I have to admit I don't have enough experience/knowledge with Canadian Chiro-accu-riverflowing-ologists to really know what to think. Let's just say I'm a little cynical by nature. It'll be interesting to hear what ortho #3 has to say.

How did your friends running in Chicago make out? How about your sister?

Mike, yes, I know what you mean. That is why I said that was my opinion as of yesterday. I may change my mind yet again today after the 3rd ortho.

The people I from my hometown that ran Chicago were very slow. One was about 30 minutes slower than hoped and the othere was 90 minutes slower! They both have finish times, so that is good. There were tons that didn't finish.

My sister and her husband ran Portland marathon. She is 40 and was hoping to BQ, she needed 3:50. This was her 4th attempt and ran 3:55:20, so close, I know she must be disappointed. She lives in Calgary, Canada and they just decided to take a week and sight see in the area so I haven't spoken to her yet. Her first marathon was 3:52, 4:02 and 4:09 (I think). He husband BQ's every time he sets foot on a marathon course. I think he ran 3:28 this time and this was his slowest marathon out of 6 attempts.

 

[msblrobs]

Excellent scenery.

Great job on TOT and thanks for the report!! Having been a victim of blood donation hindering performance myself, I am so very sorry. It's not a pretty thing. At least you know now before future events. I hope the blisters heal quickly .

Jodi - Maybe the expo would be good just for an informal meet. The logistics are just kind of overwhelming so the expo could work if we're all going to be in the vicinity on Friday afternoon. Glad you kept all of the hooligans in line at the corn maze . Such a small world for sure!!
You're running 10/28 no matter what the weather brings , who are you kidding ? I do agree with you about the 6 am start time. 4 am would be nice also Nice job on the steamy run .

Mike - My girls are doing the kids runs on Saturday. They are 10 & 6. Although the 6-yo has already told me she doesn't want to do it because it is "too long." I told her she can walk/run but she will be at least trying. Will we see you over there? We are in Crystal City so we'll take the metro over to the kids race. Your taper plan looks good and I agree that normally a 3 week taper is a bit long. Have you run MCM before? Bite your tongue about the heat !!

Dave - So glad your Dad is going with you. When do you plan on hitting the expo on Friday afternoon/evening? Did you commit to the pole dance at the finish line?

Colleen - Please let us know how you make out today. I agree with Jodi that we can all learn by you being the guinea pig here.

WISH MEET - If everyone is going to be at the Armory late Friday afternoon/early evening, perhaps just an informal meet could work at the expo site. My main concern is making sure we all hook up before Sunday so if anyone needs/wants company pre-race to kill time or calm jitters they can find someone they "know." Just let me know what you guys think.

 

[Jodi]

Hello MCMrs

It's going to be freezing on the 28th, Earl & I had a pow-wow last night & it's all good .

Sara - I think that the expo thing sounds like I good idea, this way my anxiety-ridden husband can disappear in the bathroom or something . Whatever ya'll wanna do is cool w/ me, casual is good, as long as we're all together on Sun. a.m. in the beginning so I can voice my negativity , misery loves company, ya know!

Mike - I know, I know, ChiRunning what? Believe me, there is no one more cynical than myself, but I picked up the book & it worked...for me. I stress that 'cause when I try & get my husband to try it (he's one of those guys who ran in high school, broke a 4 min. mile, blah,blah, & won't try anything new when it comes to running, but is plauged w/ injuries, knee probs etc) he says, well yeh, it worked for YOU, but that kinda stuff is not for me . 'Cause it really has eliminated most of my problems, most, not all , he can't argue w/ the results. Basically what he's saying is "sure it's good for someone like you who can be brainwashed, but for me... ahhh, my hubby. OK, I'm never saying anything about my Chi-riverflowing-lovetheearth poop anymore . And no, I don't mediate in my front yard as the sun comes up!!!

Sara - Like I've said b4, I'm just leary of anyone who wants to cut me open & scrape stuff away, but I'm not in your shoes & if they said it would help, I'd prolly consider it. I really, really trust my Accupuncture/massage therapist guy, he hasn't steered me wrong yet. He's helped tremendously & when he can't help he's referred people I know to either MDs or Chiros. Anyway, my bro was having chronic back pain, I mean can't get out of bed pain, about 6 years ago when he met this accu-guy, he was sched. for surgery for 3 bulging discs 6 days out. He put off the surgery @ this guys suggestion, went for treatments 5 times in about the course of 10 days, & was fine. I mean, that's crazy...You really have to think of medicine as a business sometimes & if you have good insurance they'll want to perform things on you (guinea pig). Seriously, though, I've seen it first hand, don't let anyone tell you it doesn't exist. Not that every Dr. is like that, but my ignorant bliss feels that most things can be taken care of with alternative medicine & no I'm not a granola hemp chick!... Eager to see what this next DR says today, report ASAP, woman!

Dave - Did you even know you were doing a pole dance ? Start practicing now.

 

[princessmomma]

OK folks here is orthopedist #3 report:

I am wearing down my knee, patella not tracking properly, arthritis in knee, you need to stop running.

He said he was 95% sure that is my problem. He said there may be a meniscus tear, but he doesn't think so. I knew he could tell I was devasted so he offered an MRI. Thank the Lord. I really need to know for sure. I will be OK if the MRI comes back as he predicted, I just need a little time to mourn.

MRI on Thursday, results next Tuesday.

Jodi, I picked ChiRunning today!

 

[Jodi]

Colleen - Thank you, thank you, thank you, for picking up the ChiRunning, stick with it, make believe you believe in it & I know you'll get something from it. DO NOT take what this orthopod says to heart, what the heck kind of diagnosis is that?? You can't run anymore? That's unacceptable. My husband was told this as well & it's just ignorance on the part of these Drs. He had a vericose vein that was heinous & sticking out & his PC Dr. said "oh, you're just getting old". He got a different PC Dr. & had it removed. What I'm saying is, how can you have 1 guy say surger/bone spurs, one say you can't run & one say work the leg muscle? It's all crazy, I can't believe it, please don't , please. You'll be fine, you won't have to give up running. Remind me to tell you more about my husband's shoulder when they said he had to have surgery, I have to go now so my kid can play Halo? But don't fret!!

 

[Mouse Skywalker]

Uuugh, Colleen- That is just horrible news from the doctor, and I hope it is not true at all. I'm sure you would be absolutely devastated to hear that. Don't give up hope yet. I have to say that my wife was diagnosed this year with arthritis in her knees, and she had it show up on an x-ray. She comes from a long family history of arthritis too. But I also have to say that what you've been describing doesn't sound at all like what my DW has. I have to agree with Jodi on this one. You've been getting bounced around on so many different pieces of advice, I woudn't know what to believe.

So everyone, guess where I am? OK, no, I'm not at Disney - I WISH. I'm in DC. I'm here for a meeting this week. I'm sitting on a grant review panel for the National Science Foundation, and I'm in Arlington, VA right now. They have banners on the light posts for the Marine Corps Marathon, and there's signs in the Metro, etc. This is what I needed. I'm psyched for the race now.

So as far as the WISH meet goes. Why don't we just continue with our plan like we had it? I'd be happy to make the reservation in my name on my credit card for the same place, same time. Seems like we had all agreed to that place, and I'm fine with sticking where we had it. Of course, it won't be as much fun without Colleen and her family, but we can call her on our cell phone. How 'bout it?

BTW: It's hillier than I thought it would be here. Oh, and it's hot too. 92 degrees when my plane landed.

Finally, what is up with this pole dance thing anyway? I must have missed something with that one. Believe me, I'm the last person you want to see pole dancing...

 

[Jodi]

Dave - You must be in the wrong DC, 'cause the DC I'm running doesn't have heat or hills . No really, it doesn't. How's the whole work nightmare going, keep us updated & vent when necessary you pole-dancing fool, you!

 

[Optimator]

Colleen - I'm not sure what to say. I am quite sure that no matter what's going on with your knee "you need to stop running" isn't going to sit well with you. Did he mean for a little while, for a few months, forever? What did he say about the bone spur diagnosis from doc#2? Maybe the MRI will provide one more piece of the puzzle.

OK, I'm never saying anything about my Chi-riverflowing-lovetheearth poop anymore . And no, I don't mediate in my front yard as the sun comes up!!!

Jodi - Chi until your little heart's content. I am in no way raining on anyone's parade. It's crazy how something as "simple" as running is so different for each of us. Do what works for you (and feel free to try to enlighten us uninformed)!!

Dave - Pretty cool that you are in DC. I'm glad you're getting pumped up. There are some hilly sections of town but I'm sure that if we just stick with Jodi she will find the flattest way to the finish.

Sara - DD11 and DD7 are participating (I won't say running because DD11 left no doubt that she intends to walk quickly, but not run) on Sat. I hope it's fun for them. Hopefully, we'll see you there. Did you run Tues? How are you feeling?

WISH meet wise, I will be fine with whatever works out best for everyone.

I got my malfunctioning Garmin back from the repair shop Monday. They actually just replaced it with a new one. I didn't have time to re-figure out how to program it to do 1 mile splits but took it for a 5+ mile test drive Tues eve and everything seemed fine. I'm shooting for 8 miles in the AM after work.

Take care everyone.

 

[princessmomma]

Colleen - I'm not sure what to say. I am quite sure that no matter what's going on with your knee "you need to stop running" isn't going to sit well with you. Did he mean for a little while, for a few months, forever? What did he say about the bone spur diagnosis from doc#2? Maybe the MRI will provide one more piece of the puzzle.

Mike, he said I needed to stop running as a recreational activity, "Find another hobby..try cycling, elliptical and swimming to get your cardio in..."
I took the photocopy of the X-rays doc #2 gave me and he said, yes you have bone spurs because you have osteoarthritis in your knee that is causing the spurs to grow because the patella is out of alignment and rubbing against the tendon. His main concern was that there was not "enough room" between the patella and the other bones and with continued running I will just wear down to bone and bone. "You don't want a knee replacement when you are 60 do you?"

What is so funny is that ortho #2 didn't mention anything about lack of space and encouraged me that I could still run the marathon. So strange.

I guess I will wait for the MRI. I am not giving up yet. In fact, another dad from my daughter's swim team told me about a great phsyiotherapist in Danville, Virgina (about a 3 hour drive). He said a lot of triathletes from here go and see him. Gosh, I wonder why? Because all these orthos should be wearing big red noses?

 

[msblrobs]

Dave - Honestly, if you're fine with the WISH meet remaining the same, I'd say that would work. You'd have to get the total number from Colleen. Glad you're having lots of fun in DC but please take the heat with you when you leave. There are no hills in DC are there? Compared to VT that is. Jodi is doing a robot dance at the finish line, I will be belly dancing and you've been nominated to pole dance (I didn't nominate you I swear).

Colleen - I am speechless. Just keep in mind it's all a process that you have to go through and don't give up hope yet . It is good that you will get the definitive MRI. Please keep us updated and do all of the XT you can for now. No running is a hard pill to swallow.

Mike - I ran yesterday but I'm sore today so I am resting. Glad you got a new Garmin that seems to be functioning properly. I hope to see you on Saturday also.

Jodi - Thanks for speaking with Earl on our behalf. I will be going out to get throwaway clothes for the start

I don't have a taper plan anymore since I am just going to give my body what it needs at this point. No sense fighting it. I will go to the Ortho on the 19th just to get the okay for the distance on the 28th. I will continue to run as much as I feel is prudent.

 

[rKyDeX]

Dave
Keeping the time and place that Colleen set up originally works for me. Thanks for stepping up with the offer. I glad your Dad reconsidered and will be joining you.

Mike
My Garmin 305 died a little more than a year ago - just before the DL Half. They did the same thing and sent me a new unit that I had to reprogram and set up to my liking.

I think that Runner's World just had an article about shortening the taper. It seems that the current trend is to decrease the taper. Try it and see if it works for you.

Sara
Last year before the WDW Full, I was dealing with runners knee and I only put in 70 miles of training between 11/19 and the race. With your fitness base, you should be able to complete MCM as long as you are healed. Do what you have to to get well.

Colleen
Take the time and effort to find the best care and treatment available, even if it means having to travel. Hopefully you will soon find the correct diagnosis and can continue your activities.

Jodi
I'm glad that DC doesn't have hills, heat I can deal with, but if the incline is more than an overpass, I'm going to need a push. Hopefully someone will tape the finish line dances so I can get a chance to see them.


Well, I've lost about 15 pounds since I've started training for MCM. A couple more and I'll be 10 less than when I ran the WDW Full. Happy training to all.

Chester
W.I.S.H. Half-Fast Marathon Team

 

[msblrobs]

Dave - That works for me too.

 

[klh-or]

I have a t-shirt that I love to workout in. It's from the Marines and says "PAIN IS WEAKNESS LEAVING THE BODY." Ha...I sure hope so!!

 

[Jodi]

Dave -Same place same time is good, thanks for taking the task. Hey, I heard them read your e-mail on the podcast today very cool. Here's hoping you get a prize . How's that pole-dancing coming?

Mike - RE: your taper, did you say you felt a little sluggish last time b/c you thought you tapered too much? If that's the case, I think you could do 12 this weekend & maybe 8 the Sat. b4. Am i making any sense or contributing positively to any question that you originally asked? . I read in Running Times that they're re-thinking tapering & that it might be too much of a good thing, but they're not refering to slugs like me - perhaps they meant you??

Colleen - Chi-on sister! Oops, I said I wouldn't do that anymore, my bad. How's your brain today?

Chester - Good for you on the weight loss! That's impressive, you'll have sprouted wings by the time the 28th rolls around, good for you Don't worry about the hills, there will be none .


Sara - Good plan for the tapering, I'm thinking of doing what you are & I'm not even injured, just a sloth . Have you found it hard backing off all your activity? I find that I grumble about getting out there a lot of times, but if I'm unable to do it it's extremely more frustrating than choosing not to do it...poor Colleen & you . But here's to the two of you for keeping your spirits up & maintaining a relative amount of sanity during this training .

Hey, my hubby has that shirt, Oregon.

I have a 20 min. tempo run on tap this afternoon, that is, after I take my DS to the orthodontist to have his wires tightened! OUCH, looks like pastina for dinner for him. It's nice today, though, cloudy 60 & misting. They're going to have a great day for the Hartford Marathon Sat., luck ducks. I was considering running the 1/2 instead of my 10 miler on Sat., but can't really afford the entry fee (well, not for a cheesy cotton t-shirt & a medal that has United Technologies all over it), however, their food tents afterwards are to die for!! It's sponsored by a Natural foods place & they make grilled cheese & apple pie & of course the usual fare of water, fruit (blech) & stuff. Hmmm...maybe I'll run my 10, maintain my sweaty-ness & drive up there quickly & wander onto the green...Something to think about.

 

[Jodi]

Tempo run yesterday was silly, I really just can't run fast &that's all there is too it .

OK, I need help, am I the only buttmunch on the planet who can't figure out how to keep ipod earbuds in my ears? What gives? While on the topic of gadgets, what kind of queer gear do ya'll run with? What can I expect you to be saddled with on the starting line? OK, I'll start.

I run in a sparky shirt, black, CWX 3/4 length pants with Race Ready Long DIstance shorts over them. These have pockets all around them in which I jam the following:

5 or 6 packs of eGel
1 or 2 salt packets
a phone
toilet paper (as we all know , however, I'll leave this behind @MCM)
2 water bottles (actually, they're the small containers you'd find in the arts&crafts dept. of WalMart, they look like ketchup or mustard containers with the pointy tops).

I look like a dork, but I like to fill one w/ water & 1 w/ watered-down Powerade. Typically I take a sip every 10 mins. & this seems to keep my hydrated w/o having to pee constantly. When I go for LRs of 18 or more, I carry a bottle of water, too. Drink that first, discard it (litter ) & then the two thingies jammed in my pockets keep me 'til the end.

I don't even know where I'd put an ipod? Perhaps an armband, but I don't suppose the marathon is any time to start experimenting, I just really thought music would be nice those last 6 miles or so. Oh well.

 

[msblrobs]

Jodi - Speed is all relative you know !! I also cannot keep earbuds in my ears because my ears are the size of a childs. I have to find ones that work well ASAP so I can't help in that dept. I like to be a minimalist when it comes to gear for the marathon. It is a delicate balance. If at all possible - no belt!! Too bulky and it makes me mean I will try to get a few gels on me somehow and some liquid. A pic of my kids. I ordered the Chi Running book last night . I may only be able to read it when I travel to MCO on business 10/23-10/24 but at least I am intrigued.

Chester - THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR POSTING THIS !!! I really needed to hear that it is doable even though I am so darn stubborn that there's no talking sense to me anyway . Congrats on the weight loss .

Colleen - I got my foam roller last night and it is my new best friend . Being a stick user also, you are right that it is so much better in many ways. I am hoping it works wonders for me in a short period of time. How are you doing today? Do you have an appt. for the MRI yet?


I ran/walked for an hour today after taking yesterday off. I am still taking it day-by-day with the goal being healed and refreshed by 10/28. Jodi's post will probably make me have to buy a pack that'll work to carry more crap in . With the taper madness setting in and all...

 

[Jodi]

Sara - Are you going to sneak over to the World when in MCO? So glad you bought the book, let me know what you think!
What are these foam rollers ya'll are talking about? I'm very interested...just another way to torture myself . How'd you feel after your walk/run yesterday?

Colleen - How's it goin?

I went on the DC metro website today & it all looks pretty straightforward getting around. We'll have a rental car 'cause we're flying into Baltimore, but now I'm wondering if that was the right thing to do. Apparently you can take a shuttle to the metro & get to DC pretty easily Mike, maybe you can help out in this decision? Is anyone going to go sightseeing on Sat? I think we'll be hitting the Smithsonian & Native American Museum. Oh wait, Mike & Sara are running with the kiddies on Sat., almost forgot.

 

[princessmomma]

Hi guys,

Sara, yes, MRI is today at 12:45. Results back on Tuesday. So glad you like your foam roller. It is awesome on my quads. I have been working on the insertion points on my outside quad muscle, the vastus lateralis and strengthening the vastus medialis (listen to me, I sound so brainy!).

Jodi, I am doing fine today. You know, I have come to believe that everything happens for a reason. I knew I wasn't stretching enough and I was pounding the pavement too hard. I need to get in touch with my inner self and let my core energy take control. (reading much chirunning, eh?) But seriously, I do want to make changes and maybe this was the nudge I needed. I even purchased a yoga mat yesterday and I am going to my first class tomorrow at 6 a.m.

As for the WISH meet, I still have the reservation at the restaurant for Friday night, in fact, I still have my hotel reservation, just in case Dh decides he wants to take a drive up to DC that weekend to do some sight-seeing. Afterall, the kids to have Monday off school. This idea is still in its infancy stage, so I will have to decide how to package it to DH.

Chester, good job on losing those 15 pounds. I always gain when I am in a program. In fact, since I bailed on the training plan 2 weeks ago, I have lost 5 pounds, all muscle mass, I am sure, but it motivates me to pretend it is fat lost.


Dave, how miles are you up for this weekend.

Mike, hope the new Garmin works out for you.

 

[msblrobs]

Jodi - I do have to put in some face time at a sales meeting but then I am doing a solo side trip to the World to put my AP to good use !! I just hope none of our sales guys question my whereabouts . The foam rollers are being used for muscle rolling like the stick is. It is for prevention and recovery. You can take the MARC from BWI into DC but it only operates M-F. There are other options for public transportation also on the weekends. We have the kids in tow or we would do the MARC for sure.

Colleen - Good luck at the MRI. Thanks for letting us know you may be in DC. We can still hope !! How far of a drive is it for you anyway? Not that I am getting my hopes up or anything but we'd REALLY to see you there.