Petition to Remove Dumbo

[Starport Seven-Five]

If you want you can find something that offends about every President, movie, book, etc. As a nation we are placing today's standards on people of the past who lived at a different time. Without these leaders the United States would not have become the country we are today. I know that many people say we suck - I read it multiple times on Twitter and facebook but we have become the country that many look up to and want to be. That did not happen by accident. Yes there are many issues in our past that contributed to our success, but we can not simply erase our past and hope the future will look better. Our nation is very divided and the angry is truly frightening. We need to raise up together in order to move on.

No one is looking to erase our past but I think it's worth reassessing who we honor as heros and the message it sends to others by honoring people who were deeply flawed.

Why are the vast majority of statues generals or politicians instead of scientists, inventors, or others who have done so much for society? What does that say about our priorities as a nation?

 

[Orion Nebula]

Is it due to promoting the circus? I keep thinking a lot of Disney movies end with the main character overcoming adversity. Which in itself is a positive inspiratitional / message. The ride shows how it all ends for him, he is flying around in a circle with his clones... I see no problem with it.

 

[Planogirl]

Trying to force older art to be wiped out is a form of censorship imo. Yes I know that only the government can truly censor but taking things away that people can easily avoid is a mob telling others what they may watch or read or whatever. I think that people need to decide for themselves what they wish to see.

I don't include monuments in that category because they are public. Much of this isn't. A flying elephant really doesn't represent anything itself besides a flying elephant.

 

[WEDWDW]

When is Hall of Presidents next?

Plus Liberty Square in its entirety,American Adventure,etc.etc.

 

[Planogirl]

Just think of all of the states and cities they'll have to rename. It doesn't stop with just statues.

 

[Brett Wyman]

Is it due to promoting the circus? I keep thinking a lot of Disney movies end with the main character overcoming adversity. Which in itself is a positive inspiratitional / message. The ride shows how it all ends for him, he is flying around in a circle with his clones... I see no problem with it.

No Dumbo is infamous for a couple of scenes and the way it portrays people of color.

To me though I 100% understand the Splash Mountain change. You are literally riding thorough the story. But Dumbo is a ride based on the character, not the movie.

 

[RamblingMad]

No Dumbo is infamous for a couple of scenes and the way it portrays people of color.

To me though I 100% understand the Splash Mountain change. You are literally riding thorough the story. But Dumbo is a ride based on the character, not the movie.

Dumbo the ride is about as racist as Splash Mountain. The same argument for Splash Mountain holds up for Dumbo. They’re changing Splash Mountain because of what it’s based on, not because there are racist elements in the actual ride.

The question becomes: where do you draw the line?

 

[Orion Nebula]

I haven't seen the movie in probably 20+ years so I don't remember the racial issues. So that makes more sense, although your right where is the line?

 

[JimMIA]

Petition live for 2 weeks and only 32 votes. I think Dumbo is safe for now at least.

This tells me all I need to know. 32 votes...on change.org, LOL!

 

[bcla]

No Dumbo is infamous for a couple of scenes and the way it portrays people of color.

To me though I 100% understand the Splash Mountain change. You are literally riding thorough the story. But Dumbo is a ride based on the character, not the movie.

The biggest controversy over Dumbo is with the crows, and the lead crow being name "Jim Crow". It was a bit more nuanced than that. They see Dumbo as a kindred spirit marginalized for something beyond his own control.

I know there's those who claim that the Roustabouts were black, but I don't really see it. That seemed more like a styilistic representation of low-skilled workers.

 

[gotomu212]

There are so many ways to acknowledge history, remember history, educate on our history, and even respect our history as a moment in time that do not revolve around continuing to honor people and ideas with statues and stereotypes that were harmful or hateful.

No one forgets about Benedict Arnold, but we don’t have a statue honoring him in the city square. No one forgets slavery or the civil war if we remove confederate memorials. No one erases the Holocaust if we don‘t watch children’s movies from the 30s that paint Jewish people in ugly hateful stereotypes and all have a laugh.

In each of those, history is still painfully remembered without confusing the message that we find their actions admirable or funny or acceptable today.

 

[Kaleidodad]

The Dumbo crows are not racist: quite the opposite, in fact.

https://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/the-ears-have-it/

 

[JimMIA]

What about Disney's depiction of mice?

 

[Lumpy1106]

Circuses have eliminated animals now, so the whole story is historical. Frankly I don't know if the animals would have been removed if not for stories like Dumbo, maybe Dumbo in particular, bringing light to the not-so-nice parts of circuses. Even Cirque du Soleil just declared bankruptcy, so it's possible kids will soon have no idea what a circus is without the ride. It's not that cruelty to animals, elephants in particular has gone away though. It's always worth bringing attention to that.

Oh, wait...the ride is somehow racist?!?

Yeah, not seeing that.

 

[PollyannaMom]

The Dumbo crows are not racist: quite the opposite, in fact.

https://www.the-tls.co.uk/articles/the-ears-have-it/

I never thought about it that way. Very interesting, and thanks for sharing it.

 

[Minnesota!]

There are so many ways to acknowledge history, remember history, educate on our history, and even respect our history as a moment in time that do not revolve around continuing to honor people and ideas with statues and stereotypes that were harmful or hateful.

No one forgets about Benedict Arnold, but we don’t have a statue honoring him in the city square. No one forgets slavery or the civil war if we remove confederate memorials. No one erases the Holocaust if we don‘t watch children’s movies from the 30s that paint Jewish people in ugly hateful stereotypes and all have a laugh.

In each of those, history is still painfully remembered without confusing the message that we find their actions admirable or funny or acceptable today.

Exactly what I was trying to say.

 

[bcla]

Circuses have eliminated animals now, so the whole story is historical. Frankly I don't know if the animals would have been removed if not for stories like Dumbo, maybe Dumbo in particular, bringing light to the not-so-nice parts of circuses. Even Cirque du Soleil just declared bankruptcy, so it's possible kids will soon have no idea what a circus is without the ride. It's not that cruelty to animals, elephants in particular has gone away though. It's always worth bringing attention to that.

Oh, wait...the ride is somehow racist?!?

Yeah, not seeing that.

There are still operating circuses with animals in the US. The USDA took their full APHIS inspection report database offline, but I suppose they could be requested by FOIA request. They do have a list of licensees, but even that can't be searched because it's flattened as images.

https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/animalwelfare/awa/awa-inspection-and-annual-reports

 

[Tallis]

OMG is there no end? Let's just burn the entire park to the ground since Mickey & Minnie are rodents and their pals are animals. I'm sure that's offensive in some way that I can't think of yet.

 

[BrianL]

There are so many ways to acknowledge history, remember history, educate on our history, and even respect our history as a moment in time that do not revolve around continuing to honor people and ideas with statues and stereotypes that were harmful or hateful.

No one forgets about Benedict Arnold, but we don’t have a statue honoring him in the city square. No one forgets slavery or the civil war if we remove confederate memorials. No one erases the Holocaust if we don‘t watch children’s movies from the 30s that paint Jewish people in ugly hateful stereotypes and all have a laugh.

In each of those, history is still painfully remembered without confusing the message that we find their actions admirable or funny or acceptable today.

This is true but there is a difference in statues in places of honor and movies and theme park rides. The context is different. I am all for the removal of statues that honor Confederates, etc. but I am not for their destruction. They should rather be placed somewhere where context can be added to further the conversation. It doesn't do any good to simply destroy them and pretend that they never existed. What many propose is no better than burning books that have content that you don't agree with.

 

[RamblingMad]

Is it due to promoting the circus? I keep thinking a lot of Disney movies end with the main character overcoming adversity. Which in itself is a positive inspiratitional / message. The ride shows how it all ends for him, he is flying around in a circle with his clones... I see no problem with it.

I thought the purpose of Disney movies was to cope with dead parents.