PETE went too far re: PETA as Domestic Terrorists

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I'm just gonna leave this here...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-j-winograd/peta-kills-puppies-kittens_b_2979220.html

and this

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/feb/11/peta-virginia-shelter-killed-88-of-rescued-pets-l/

Now, if they used that money to lobby for Trap-Neuter-and-Release legislation (or TNR), that would make too much sense. But, wait, you don't need all of that money to persuade lawmakers to adopt this kind of program... behold:

http://alleycatadvocates.org/

PETA is an animal RIGHTS organisation and often those beliefs can clash with what most people would consider a happy life for an animal, for example the mass euthanasia of feral cats rather than catch and release programmes....in some situations sure but as a blanket wide policy I would certainly have a problem with it and would be interested to hear their arguments for it (I'm sure there is a quality of life argument in there somewhere). The issues highlighted in the articles are horrible and certainly animal cruelty arguments could be made and it just shows you how different the animal community can be. There is often a divergence between animal rights vs animal welfare vs animal conservation. Honestly it is a wonder that anything is ever achieved!

That being said:

Unfortunately the mass euthanasia of healthy, rehomeable animals is the reality of working in the animal welfare sector. No-kill shelters are few and far between but until pet owners take proper responsibility for their animals and get all of them neutered in a timely manner then it is likely to continue. I believe the stats here in the UK for the cat population is animal charities (including the big ones such as RSPCA) and responsible owners neuter about 7% of cats and to get a handle on the problem we need to be neutering 70%. Similarly the popularity of pedigree dogs/cats just exacerbates the problem and leads to even more animals ending up in shelters. There are just too many animals and not enough room/money and even at the small no-kill shelter I used to work at (where we rehomed roughly 300 cats a year) we used to get anything up to 20/30 calls a day about taking in animals. Now turn that up to a nationally known animal rescue such as RSPCA or PETA and the calls logs are even greater. This means larger shelters have to give the animals only a limited number of days to be rehomed or they have to put them down to allow new animals to come in. Do I wish it weren't the case...of course! As I'm sure people at PETA and local shelters also wish (ok maybe not everyone at PETA). Putting a healthy animal down, simply because there is not enough room is absolutely heartbreaking and I really hope non of you ever have to be in that position. It can be very traumatic for the people involved.

It also comes down to money. A huge organisation like PETA has a lot of draws on their funding including campaigns/lobbying on a variety of issues which means there is less money to be put into their animal shelters. It is one of the issues with large charities and you never know where the money you give them is actually going.

However I will say, organisations like PETA/RSPCA and many zoos/aquariums do have a lack of transparency when it comes to euthanasia rates and such which is why when articles such as the ones posted come out it causes a huge stink. Arguably they could use the information to campaign for greater neutering and things but it could be a very hit or miss campaign.

The reality of working in a shelter having to say no to someone wanting to bring an animal in is often followed with threat of "I'll just dump it then" or "if you don't take it I'm taking it to the vets to be put to sleep." This is on top of a waiting list of people who maybe waiting 4-6 months to get the animal in. Unfortunately it is the way the world is and I will say for every animal we could we squeezed them in somewhere, often having animals in all the offices (which was against the rules), in every pen and with as many fosterers as we could get but it still wasn't enough.
 
looks like someone wants a $50 disney gift card by getting a mention in 'top ten threads on Disboards for the month of March'
We don't do the Top Ten Trending Threads any longer. #JustSayin ;)

Now we do the Top Five Planning Threads for the month and I've been lucky enough to get to hand-pick my very favorites! :goodvibes
 

I'm hurting myself for coming back to this. I love animals, especially the tasty ones.

Pete rants about the NRA but I don't care because it's the same as PETA, a huge, well funded organization that lobbies and produces videos or movies that fit their agenda. I will still go out and shoot Bambi because he tastes good, and I will still go see animal shows because I like to learn. Without Sea World I would have no idea what an Orca looked like first hand (or many other animals). I can't fathom the hypocrisy that this will bring, but how many animals are only surviving because of zoos and human intervention?

Look to the manatee, they don't taste good but Sea World continues to rescue and treat their injuries (those tree hugging bastards). If PETA wanted to do something good they would go after those Inuits for eating whales and seals instead of just going to McDonald's. If cow's weren't tasty they would be extinct.

My point is animals are here for humans. God said so in the bible (I'm making that up, my hand burns whenever I touch a bible). If you want to believe differently, you are allowed to. The same goes for Pete and his belief that PETA are terrorists. If anyone doesn't like it I will gladly refund the price they paid to watch the podcast.
:thanks:
 
"May or may not?" You don't know where you stand? Don't be afraid to state your opinion.
I'm kind of in the middle. I don't like PETA but I don't know if I would call them terrorists. With that said I think Pete is entitled to his opinion.
 
My point is animals are here for humans. God said so in the bible (I'm making that up, my hand burns whenever I touch a bible).

Ok I am going out on a limb here but this is the best quote I have seen in a while. Made me laugh . Thanks :)
 
I agree with Pete on this. PETA's intent was to do harm to Sea World and they accomplished their mission. Blackfish was the weapon of choice used to intimidate and bully Sea World and it worked. Intimidation, BTW, is a form of terrorism. As a retired military member and having deployed to Afghanistan & Iraq I do know that not all terrorism comes in the forms of extremism that ISIS expresses. There are many other ways that someone can terrorize you.
 
I agree with Pete on this. PETA's intent was to do harm to Sea World and they accomplished their mission. Blackfish was the weapon of choice used to intimidate and bully Sea World and it worked. Intimidation, BTW, is a form of terrorism. As a retired military member and having deployed to Afghanistan & Iraq I do know that not all terrorism comes in the forms of extremism that ISIS expresses. There are many other ways that someone can terrorize you.
Thanks for your input, and your service.
I find it refreshing for someone who has actually served in the fight against terrorism to be honest about this and I find it odd that people on this thread are offended on your behalf, yet, you're not offended by the use of the word 'terrorism' in this situation at all.
Once again, though I'm not American (I'm making an assumption that you are? Please forgive me if I'm wrong), thank you for your service to your country.
 
Thanks for your input, and your service.
I find it refreshing for someone who has actually served in the fight against terrorism to be honest about this and I find it odd that people on this thread are offended on your behalf, yet, you're not offended by the use of the word 'terrorism' in this situation at all.
Once again, though I'm not American (I'm making an assumption that you are? Please forgive me if I'm wrong), thank you for your service to your country.

Very little offends me :) I figure this is America and we are all free to have our own opinions and beliefs. If I don't like something on TV I am free to change the channel. If I don't agree with someone, I can agree to disagree and move on.
 
I didn’t hear the podcast, and I’m not a huge fan of PETA, but I am a strong supporter of other animal welfare groups, and an animal lover.

I also happened to go to college in Florida, studied marine biology, and worked with Sea World’s animal rescue group while doing so. I met many fantastic, knowledgeable people who cared for those animals like their own children. They were doing wonderful, admirable and very humane rescue work and cared deeply, authentically and completely about the animals in their care.

But, I also think that whales, particularly Orcas, are far too large to ever be successfully kept in captivity. It shouldn’t happen. Period.

Both things can be true: the SeaWorld trainers are wonderful, caring people who treat the animals with the utmost respect and do significant good work AND that Orcas are simply too large and too free-roaming to have a decent quality of life in captivity.

What’s different between them and another zoos, I see asked over and over? Well, for one thing, we have strong, factual evidence, which SeaWorld has provably distorted and lied about, that Orcas in captivity have well less than half the lifespan of wild whales. The infant mortality is also immensely higher than in the wild, despite the lack of predators in a captive situation. (SeaWorld’s infant mortality has improved greatly over the past two decades, but if you look at earlier statistics, they were losing 3-5x the number of calves that survived for most of their breeding history.) Based on just these facts alone, though there are many others, these animals are provably NOT thriving, no matter how lovingly they’re cared for.

I didn’t hear this podcast, but I’ve heard Pete speak of this before and while he has every right to his opinion, the part that bothers me is that he has continually stated things about the Blackfish film and SeaWorld’s rebuttal that are factually untrue. (SeaWorld itself has had to admit that many of the things they initially offered as counterpoints — even in those commercials aired just last year — were outright falsehoods, or greatly distorted.)

Did the Blackfish film have an agenda? Yes. Undoubtably. Does SeaWorld have an agenda? Yes, also indisputable.

The difference is the Blackfish agenda is that it’s to halt the captivity of animals that are too large, and arguably too intelligent, to be successfully contained by humans. SeaWorld’s, as a corporation, is to make money.

Are some of the film’s tactics and messages one-sided? Absolutely. One-sided does not equal false.

SeaWorld has admitted, and been fined for, over and over, lying about whales whereabouts, illegally breeding them, illegally selling their whales (which is against international zoological standards), buying wild whales that they hide, and breed, in parks in less regulated parts of the world (funding the buying in other park's names and then assuming ownership), and then claiming, publicly, that “SeaWorld doesn’t buy wild whales.” (In short, buying them from parks that do is the same thing.) They rescue female whales that they then keep intentionally penned with males in order for them to become pregnant, then add the calves born in captivity to SeaWorld’s owned whale roster.

These are not opinions, but proven facts, which have happened time and again — and continue to happen, there is a female wild rescue that was supposed to be returned to the wild that is suddenly showing up in corporate records as “owned” by SeaWorld and pregnant right now after being kept with males, despite regulations that said she was supposed to be isolated, being kept in a park in, I believe, Spain (SeaWorld is claiming her “ownership” is a technical error, but hasn’t commented on the pregnancy) — and involve fairly significant malfeasance that perhaps happens in most multi-national companies, but in this case deal with living, feeling, highly intelligent creatures.

SeaWorld has now admitted placing “spies” in animal welfare organizations, etc. and distorting their statistics to hide life spans, illnesses, etc. of their whales. These are not the tactics of a pure organization … Which makes sense, because SeaWorld is not a non-profit zoo, it’s a for-profit entertainment facility.

As for ‘Why are animal rights organizations only worried about whales'? They’re not. There are issues with keeping just about every top-level, wide-ranging mammal species successfully in captivity. Whales are just (literally) the biggest fish. Zoos can do very good work, both in education and preservation. (And, I should add, so can SeaWorld with other animals.) Zoos have saved species from extinction (e.g. black rhino), but there are some animals, humans can not, and should not, successfully keep in captivity … None more so than Orcas. You can’t recreate an ocean, in even the world’s biggest tank. Wild whales migrate thousands of miles annually — often swimming hundreds of miles in a single day -- to breed and feed. They live and hunt in large, family pods, that can number up to 30 whales, not singly or in unrelated pairs as SeaWorld keeps them. In the wild, fights resulting in injuries among pod members are almost unheard of. (Perhaps because when fights break out, there is an entire ocean to escape in.) In captivity, whales regularly harm one another, or themselves (banging head against tank sides, breaking teeth off on bars, etc.), regularly. Wild family groups stay together for their entire 30-50 year (wild) life span, and wild whales as old as 80 have been documented. The average life span for SeaWorld’s captive Orcas is 13-15 years, and mother-child whales are routinely separated as young as three years old. These are gentle, well-studied, easy-to-track creatures that have never killed or harmed a human in the wild, intentionally or accidentally. (Like the slumped dorsal fin, that also only happens in captivity.)

Think what you want about Blackfish. It’s a movie and, honestly, one I’ve never seen, because I already knew the message and thought it would just bum me out. Having spent time “backstage” in Orlando, amongst its people, I left thinking just about everyone I met there was awesome and truly cared for these animals. But I also hated so much of what I saw that I changed my major and decided that wasn’t what I wanted to do with my life, because the conditions, no matter how hard people tried, were just so obviously not suitable for these giant animals to have any real quality of life. (And, for the record, amongst all the parks worldwide that keep Orcas, the U.S. SeaWorld locales are undeniably the best facilities so if they’re that depressing ... Imagine the others.)

Taking all emotion out of it, and simply looking at the survival and health statistics between wild and captive Orcas shows pretty convincingly that captivity is not suitable for whales.
 
I watched blackfish, and do not agree with everything in it but do agree they should not be in captivity. I support sea world for the work they do in rescuing animals but will not walk through the front gate of the park until changes are made. That is how I make my voice heard by my use of wallet. I also do not support PETA as the tactics they use are inappropriate and out of line. I like to think that I take an educated approach to this and look to understand both sides and not to make a judgment based just off emotion.
Sea World has already made significant changes. What more do you expect them to do right now? Sea World has stated that the orcas they have are unable to be released into the wild as they've been born and raised in captivity. Are they supposed to release them into the wild to die?
 
We don't do the Top Ten Trending Threads any longer. #JustSayin ;)

Now we do the Top Five Planning Threads for the month and I've been lucky enough to get to hand-pick my very favorites! :goodvibes

A much better method! Needless to say, I hope this won't be one of them.
 
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