Pet store dogs

[sunnyday123]

Financially supporting animal cruelty is not doing the right thing. I've made the mistake of buying a puppy from a pet store, not knowing what I know now. I don't feel guilty about it, since I was ignorant to the facts, but there is no way I could do it again.

So she should have left the puppy there? Until he was shipped to a local shelter, where he might not have been adopted or adopted by someone who would treat him well? Or worse just shipped back to the puppy mill to be put down?
Puppy mills need to be held to tighter restrictions and regulations. But then you have the backyard breeders who will churn out litter after litter. I really don't see how this can ever be stopped unless PET STORE OWNERS refuse to sell puppies. And then it will only slow down the practice, not stop it completely.

I still think Hockeymom did the right thing.

 

[Maggimus]

Petshops, backyard breeders and reputable breeders are all making profits from creating more dogs when shelters are filled with dogs. I'm not judging, as I bought my dog from a pet shop. Just wondering why people who are against petshops will not take their concern a step further and save a homeless dog.

AMEN to that! I admit, I got mine from a breeder (2 Dacshunds) but like a PP said, you live and learn from your mistakes. I love my 2 babies... but i'll never purchase a dog again. There are too many homeless dogs out there that we could all reach out to.

Breeding, period, should be outlawed for a while. The wild will have babies... but lets try and get these animals out of the wild before bringing more into the world...

 

[Dax]

I wanna chime in on this topic...I have not read all the responses, but I read through a lot of them..

I have 5 pugs. 2 of them, came from a pet store. 1 from a shelter. The other 2, were a result of an accidental breeding.

My first 2 pugs, came from 2 VERY different pet stores. My oldest, Zelda, came from Petland. When I bought her, I did not know a lot about the whole "pet store = possible puppymill dog". I just wanted that quick satisfaction of a dog. She is a good dog, never had any issues. When we wanted another, we went to a different pet store, and got a 2nd. Austin. Austin, we believe, was inbred, and from a puppymill. He is not really "breed standard" and has had health issues.

Before we could have Austin neutered, DH made the mistake of letting the 2 of them in the backyard together, when Zelda was in heat. I ended up with a litter of 5. I sold 3, kept 2. Austin was fixed shortly after. I never planned the breeding, but I did sell the puppies. I did take the effort though to warn the owners that the dogs were NOT papered, and may possibly have health issues. The 2 I kept were fine.

My last pug, Draco, was left at the pound after a family divorced. He never made it to the floor. Good timing on our part, he was only at the shelter for an hour before he was adopted out to us.

Today, I know better. I would NEVER buy from a petstore. I have learned so much, and personal experiences have taught me a lot as well. Sadly, as long as people continue to buy from petstores, puppymills will always be around.

 

[roliepolieoliefan]

Petshops, backyard breeders and reputable breeders are all making profits from creating more dogs when shelters are filled with dogs. I'm not judging, as I bought my dog from a pet shop. Just wondering why people who are against petshops will not take their concern a step further and save a homeless dog.

If a reputable breeder finds out through their health testing that a litter has health problems, a bad heart, deaf, whatever, what happens to the pups? Sold as is? Kept and raised by the breeder, sent to shelters, euthanized?

I bought mine from a breeder because I bought one of my collies to show. I understand shelter dogs believe me. I visited the local one here every week to search for surrendered collies because the manager of the shelter refused to call rescue people when she got them in.

My 2nd collie I got from the breeder. Didn't pay for her , she was placed with me. Why? The breeder couldn't show her because her teeth were crooked. Believe me I know.

She is with us now and happy. I don't condone what these breeders do, backyard or reputable. It makes me sick that they breed and breed. But some people do want specifics and if one does, search out a breeder, don't buy from a pet store.

The collie I have now, the one I bought to show, when the pups were only 2 weeks old, the dad died of bloat. It is said to be hereditary. The breeder gave me the choice to not take the pup. I took her anyhow and I'm real careful with her after meal times. She placed another pup from the same litter with my friend, but kept all the others. She hasn't bred from that line again. I'm not saying all breeders are like that, most probably are not, unfortunately.

 

[Aimeedyan]

So she should have left the puppy there? Until he was shipped to a local shelter, where he might not have been adopted or adopted by someone who would treat him well? Or worse just shipped back to the puppy mill to be put down?
Puppy mills need to be held to tighter restrictions and regulations. But then you have the backyard breeders who will churn out litter after litter. I really don't see how this can ever be stopped unless PET STORE OWNERS refuse to sell puppies. And then it will only slow down the practice, not stop it completely.

I still think Hockeymom did the right thing.

Because she bought the cute puppy in the window, that pet shop owner ordered another one. And when it sold, order another one. And over and over again. And somewhere there is a poor young momma who is pumping out puppies as fast as her body can who will never know the love of a home because people like Hockeymom convince themselves that they are saving a dog, which in reality they are condemning a dog to a life of misery and pain.

Of course the RIGHT thing to do is refuse to give that pet shop their business and contact a local rescue to find out where those puppies go when they are not sold. When the pet shop dumps those dogs of to some volunteer run organization, Hockeymom adopts that puppy and puts her money towards the solution, not the problem. But when you put less than 10 minutes thought into whether or not to bring a life into your home, you don't think through all the implications of your purchase. Which is why pet shops are successful and why they have the highest rate of shelter surrenders.

 

[justjudy]

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[sunnyday123]

this debate can go on for days and days. Pet shops are bad, backyard breeders are bad. Would I ever purchase a pet from a pet shop? I can't honestly say I wouldn't. There is only one ( that I know of) around me, but if I walked in there and saw a puppy in bad conditions ( they do at least give them the whole one side of the store to roam) or being teased, which I have never seen as they are very strict about stuff like that, yea, I would probably walk out with a puppy. I also know that I wouldn't have or couldn't save it's Mother, but I would've saved that one.

I lost my dog a little over 2 months ago. Eventually I probably will want another dog, and a large one. The breeds I'm interested in are prone to displaysia, which my dog had. Will I go to a rescue? I don't know. I have small children in and out all day and 3 cats. I cant's risk getting another dog that has that problem. There are breeders out there that will test for that and other issues, and that is probably the route I will take.
I had a rescue flat out lie to me about the temperment of my tortie and my heart breaks for her. She wasn't as accustomed to other cats or dogs, and we've had to work with her.
I AM NOT saying all rescues do that, but this particular one did. Things can still happen and no pet is guarranteed, but I would prefer getting a dog where I can see the parents, and know there has been testing for genetic problems. Most of the dogs -about 95% in our local shelters are pit mixes. That's not a breed I would feel comfortable getting from a local shelter.

I still believe puppy mills and pet stores need to be better regulated.

 

[teskak]

Just chipping in with the whole back yard breeder debate.

In my view a backyard breeder is somebody who is not prepared to put all of the time and effort into the dog, such as

"I want my girl dog to have a litter of puppies because they are cute / kids want to see them / biology lesson etc"
"My boy has 'jewellery' and I want him to have a chance to use it???"
Cashing in on the money chances.

In my experience from the dog show world, a good dog breeder only has a litter of puppies when they are trying to improve the breed. Yes, some dogs are held back for shows or placed in show homes. The rest might have minor minor faults such as crooked teeth which do not affect the dog (although I have seen some horrible mouths that on a human would mean lots of dental work).
Dogs placed as pets are on the condition they are sterilised at 6 months of age and "papers" are not handed over. Trust me, the breeders know the pedigree of the dog for the past 5 generations, but if you do not hand over the "papers" the dog has lost half of its value to any potential back yard breeders.

As for the dogs with faults, well if it is a major inheritable fault the first thing you do is sterilise the parents so that fault cannot be passed on. If a puppy is born with a fault which will cause long term suffering - such as some skin conditions in dobermans then the puppy is put to sleep immediately

 

[Nana Annie]

Petshops, backyard breeders and reputable breeders are all making profits from creating more dogs when shelters are filled with dogs. I'm not judging, as I bought my dog from a pet shop. Just wondering why people who are against petshops will not take their concern a step further and save a homeless dog.

If a reputable breeder finds out through their health testing that a litter has health problems, a bad heart, deaf, whatever, what happens to the pups? Sold as is? Kept and raised by the breeder, sent to shelters, euthanized?

First of all, a reputable breeder rarely makes any kind of profit off a litter. The health testing and pre-natal care take care of any profits. That is one of the difference with a backyard breeder, a puppy mill and a reputable breeder. You will never see a puppy mill and extremely rare to see a backyard breeder provide the prenatal care a reputable breeder does. They never do the ultrasounds, the blood work, etc that a reputable breeder does because the reputable breeder is not breeding for profit.

Usually a reputable breeder will only breed a litter when they want another dog, a better dog than what they have. Knowing they will have other pet quality puppies, a reputable breeder will hardly ever breed a litter until they have a waiting list for puppies. So, a litter is hardly ever brought into the world without homes waiting for the puppies.

Secondly, all the health testing is done before a breeding is ever done. There are no puppies to deal with. A reputable breeder will test for all genetic diseases. A dog will not be bred if they are found to be carrying something they can pass on. The testing is not done after a litter is already on its way. If some problem crops up that health testing missed, the parents are immediately spayed and neutered and health care is provided for all puppies.

A reputable breeder does not believe that just because a dog is male and they have a female, that they should breed it. They research the backgrounds of the dogs. They have very concrete reasons why they would breed dog A to dog B. Perhaps the ***** has a weak topline and a certain male would improve this.

They know temperaments and make sure the temperaments are compatible before they breed. To further this, a reputable breeder will temperament test their litter and carefully place each puppy with a family situation that is best for them. You may get annoyed at all the questions a breeder might ask you, you might get annoyed that you cannot pick out your puppy, but that is why they are reputable breeders. For instance, if you are a lenient person who loves to spoil their dog, a reputable breeder would never place an alpha temperament in your home. That is just asking for trouble.

They know recessive traits and make sure neither dog is carrying the gene, so no puppies are ever born that might have the disease.

Even champions are pulled from the breeding pool if they are not the best of the best. I have a male champion that will never be bred because there is one thing that I do not want to pass on to litters.

Backyard breeders and puppymills care nothing about this.

Rescue is always the best. But if you want a carefully studied dog that has had a ton of thought behind why it was created, a good, reputable breeder is the way to go. And 99% of the time, you will pay less than half of what a backyard breeder or pet shop charges and your chances of paying out the nose for medical bills are greatly decreased.

 

[Nana Annie]

I completely agree. I bet many (not all, many) of the shelter dogs we see/are fostered out started out from a good breeder, but they ended up with bad "parents". The bad parents put them in the shelter.

Nope - 100% incorrect.

As others have stated, a reputable breeder takes lifelong responsibility for any and all puppies they produce. That is what makes them reputable. If they do not have in the sales contract that they will take any puppy back at any time in their lifespan, they are not a "good" breeder, that would make them a backyard breeder or even worse, a puppy mill.

Reputable breeders do anything and everything they can to keep their puppies out of shelters and rescues, including chipping the puppies and keeping the registration in both the owner's and the breeder's name so that the breeder is always contacted if one of their puppies ends up in a shelter or rescue.

 

[Nana Annie]

But people lie/move/don't answer their phone. Then what?

Which is the reason for the application, the home study, and the vetting of the potential buyer. Reputable breeders don't release their puppies to just anybody. And for most reputable breeders, this is done before the litter is even on the ground.

If you are reputable and have good dogs, you have a waiting list. No need to sell a dog to just anybody.

 

[MushyMushy]

Nope - 100% incorrect.

As others have stated, a reputable breeder takes lifelong responsibility for any and all puppies they produce. That is what makes them reputable. If they do not have in the sales contract that they will take any puppy back at any time in their lifespan, they are not a "good" breeder, that would make them a backyard breeder or even worse, a puppy mill.

Reputable breeders do anything and everything they can to keep their puppies out of shelters and rescues, including chipping the puppies and keeping the registration in both the owner's and the breeder's name so that the breeder is always contacted if one of their puppies ends up in a shelter or rescue.

See the muttley in my avatar? I got her from a breeder. A local woman breeds shelties and poodles, and I got put on a waiting list for one of her shelties. Well, someone dumped that precious face on this woman's property, so she offered her to me knowing we were wanting a puppy. One of her conditions was that we would give her back to them if she didn't work out for us. She followed up on all the shots and worming for me, too.

She's got a pretty good local reputation, and it even extended to a mutt.

 

[sunnyday123]

Nope - 100% incorrect.

As others have stated, a reputable breeder takes lifelong responsibility for any and all puppies they produce. That is what makes them reputable. If they do not have in the sales contract that they will take any puppy back at any time in their lifespan, they are not a "good" breeder, that would make them a backyard breeder or even worse, a puppy mill.

Reputable breeders do anything and everything they can to keep their puppies out of shelters and rescues, including chipping the puppies and keeping the registration in both the owner's and the breeder's name so that the breeder is always contacted if one of their puppies ends up in a shelter or rescue.

Really? You know this to be a fact? You have checked every shelter, in every state and found NO dogs from a breeder? If an owner voluntarily brings a dog that happens to be a purebred into a shelter, they aren't going to see if they are microchipped.
Unfortunately, some will and do fall through the cracks.

 

[ThePetLady7]

Really? You know this to be a fact? You have checked every shelter, in every state and found NO dogs from a breeder? If an owner voluntarily brings a dog that happens to be a purebred into a shelter, they aren't going to see if they are microchipped.
Unfortunately, some will and do fall through the cracks.

I'm certainly not going to put this out there as something that happens everywhere, but I know for a fact that our local shelters will do just that. Many shelters now include microchips along with spay/neuter and shots as part of the adoption package. Before they will insert the chip, they will make sure that one isn't already present. The pom I adopted was an owner surrender, and I saw them scan him before they inserted his microchip. It's just procedure.

 

[Nana Annie]

Really? You know this to be a fact? You have checked every shelter, in every state and found NO dogs from a breeder? If an owner voluntarily brings a dog that happens to be a purebred into a shelter, they aren't going to see if they are microchipped.
Unfortunately, some will and do fall through the cracks.

Ummm yes, 99% of shelters and vets will and do scan every dog that is brought in, regardless if the dog is voluntarily surrendered or a stray. It is part of the protocol to make sure that the voluntary surrender isn't really a stolen dog. If a dog is surrendered with papers, the rescue groups will call the breeder first to see if they will take the dog back.

I don't deny that some fall through the cracks. But that is why I said that the reputable breeder will do anything and everything they can to make sure their dogs do not end up in rescue. That is why they are responsible breeders.

Reputable breeders are also involved with their breed's rescue groups, so they can make sure one of their puppies are not surrendered to rescue.

 

[#1hockeymom]

Because she bought the cute puppy in the window, that pet shop owner ordered another one. And when it sold, order another one. And over and over again. And somewhere there is a poor young momma who is pumping out puppies as fast as her body can who will never know the love of a home because people like Hockeymom convince themselves that they are saving a dog, which in reality they are condemning a dog to a life of misery and pain.

Of course the RIGHT thing to do is refuse to give that pet shop their business and contact a local rescue to find out where those puppies go when they are not sold. When the pet shop dumps those dogs of to some volunteer run organization, Hockeymom adopts that puppy and puts her money towards the solution, not the problem. But when you put less than 10 minutes thought into whether or not to bring a life into your home, you don't think through all the implications of your purchase. Which is why pet shops are successful and why they have the highest rate of shelter surrenders.

I did not buy my dog from a pet shop chain, but from a local SMALL village store. There was no reordering because I bought Max, there was just one less jackrat running around the pen in the middle of the store. This store doesn't always carry dogs. Sometimes they have them, sometimes they don't.

Like I've said earlier, we put over a year of thought into this purchase, and months of serious thought when we were looking. I found our dog when I went in to buy finch food.

He's loved and he loves us. End of story!

 

[sunnyday123]

I did not buy my dog from a pet shop chain, but from a local SMALL village store. There was no reordering because I bought Max, there was just one less jackrat running around the pen in the middle of the store. This store doesn't always carry dogs. Sometimes they have them, sometimes they don't.

Like I've said earlier, we put over a year of thought into this purchase, and months of serious thought when we were looking. I found our dog when I went in to buy finch food.

He's loved and he loves us. End of story!

And I think that is all that matters. You can't pick who OR what you fall in love with, and he is one less puppy that will end up in the shelter.

 

[Eeyores Butterfly]

I agree that when possible dogs should come from rescues- but there is no reason to insult somebody just because they bought a dog from an alternative source. Telling somebody they did the wrong thing or should have adopted a shelter dog instead is uncalled for. Hockeymom obviously put consideration into her purchase and it does not sound like this dog came from a puppy mill.

My family has owned four dogs during my lifetime. The first was bought before I was even born. At the time my parents had never even heard of a puppy mill, but that is what it was. They now know better. The second (my parents still have) was bought about three months after Pippin died. Our friends bred their champion miniature long haired dachshunds. Of the two pups, one was a boy which do not sell as well. They knew that I was wanting another dog because I had always had a dog, and sold him to us at a discounted rate. They used to dog sit him for us when we left.

The two who live with me are shelter dogs. One is a half dachshund/ half jack russell. The mom and pups were surrendered, I never did find out why. The other is a plain old American mutt. I have no clue what he is. Matthias (my doxie/jr) is a bundle of energy. Eragon, well, he was probably abused before I got him. He was a stray with no history. When I brought him home he cowered in terror and his ears were layed flat for a full month. He then became very clingy, wouldn't let others approach him, etc. Through some hard work he is getting better. He is such a loving dog, I can't imagine somebody abandoning him.

I lucked out with the dogs in my shelter, but not everybody does. I would be very wary adopting if I had kids. Our shelter is a Humane Society with nowhere near enough funding. They will hold onto a dog until there is no room, they try to avoid killing whenever possible. They do not have the resources to microchip or do a behavioral assessment on a dog. They do not do homestudies (again, no resources.) It's a rural area, so the majority of dogs are large dogs that are typically used for hunting. While they were able to give me some basics about the personalities, it was still a roll of the dice.

There are a million and one reasons why somebody may not be able to adopt from a shelter. Some shelters have incredibly unnecessary restrictions (must have a backyard, no small children, etc.) that keep people from adopting. Others make the process so long and drawn out that people give up (as a pp has mentioned).

So while I wish everybody would get their dogs through the shelters, that is just my opinion. I don't think I have a right to tell another person how to live their life.

 

[HOGFAN]

after scouring the local animal shelter for MONTHS and not finding what we were looking for, we purchased from a local privately owned store. we knew we wanted a small(less than 15 pounds) dog and IF the shelters got one that size it was gone before we could get there. Is our baby from a mill?, dont know, really dont care. I dont have any reason to think so. Well behaved, no health problems. as a pp said, he loves and is loved.

 

[Mahnahmahnah]

I did not buy my dog from a pet shop chain, but from a local SMALL village store. There was no reordering because I bought Max, there was just one less jackrat running around the pen in the middle of the store. This store doesn't always carry dogs. Sometimes they have them, sometimes they don't.

Like I've said earlier, we put over a year of thought into this purchase, and months of serious thought when we were looking. I found our dog when I went in to buy finch food.

He's loved and he loves us. End of story!:lovestruc

And I think that is all that matters. You can't pick who OR what you fall in love with, and he is one less puppy that will end up in the shelter.

Yes indeed

I am a HUGE animal lover. I have one adopted pug as well. I'm big on adoption, but the insults toward hockeymom are just wrong!

My third pug came from a pet store in a mall.

A FM told me she had noticed her sitting in there for 2 months. I went in and looked at her and noticed she was $500 off due to an umbilical (sp?) hernia. I guess people were put off by that and no one would buy her.

Well *I* did !!!!!

What else was going to happen to her if I didn't? Gee-I guess I saved her life.

Some people really need to get a grip and not be so quick to judge. Everyone has their reasons for the pet they have. And I agree that those puppy mills are sickening.
If that animal that is chosen is loved and well cared for, that's all that matters. As long as people keep breeding them, these animals still need loving homes, as well as shelter animals.