Permitting process for remodels is a joke.

[kdonnel]

My in laws are moving into my basement so we are having it finished.

In Metro Atlanta in the past it was much more common to NOT permit a basement then to permit it. But more and more people are moving to our area from parts of the country where not permitting a basement remodel is unheard of and those people are reluctant to buy a home that has had non permitted work done. So we picked a general contractor who was pro permit.

It is just over 1200 sq ft that is being finished so not a trivial amount.

So far we have had a combined HVAC, rough electrical, and rough plumbing inspection. From the time the inspector opened his car door until he drove off was 3 minutes.

Today we got the rough framing inspection. Once again 3 minutes.

There is no way the inspector could have possible looked over the work being done well enough to actually say if it was done properly or not.

At least the permit only cost $329 and will give us as the seller some peace of mind later but this process has made me realize that just because something was permitted does not mean it was done right.

Buyer beware!

 

[usnuzuloose]

To me, they don't check things as good as they did so long ago. Who knows people may pass you and find out later it does not pass. Things are not even made well anymore. So it is hard to say about hiring people for permits. For me, I would try and get many opinions as long as they don't cost. Yeah I know. When we sold our home , short sale the inspector did not find many problems. Our biggest cost was to replace a pipe that was leaking for the pool. I went around fixing small stuff I knew how to do. So hard to trust reviews as well.

 

[Ellie008]

Well, when we had some electrical work done the inspector personally knew the electrician since he had inspected so much of his work in the past. He came before the guy was even finished working, gave it the stamp of approval and left. Now, if the guy doing the work was someone he had never worked with before I bet it would have gone down differently.
Since you picked a pro-permit contractor, I imagine the inspector had worked with them in the past and knew they generally do fine work.

 

[Diznotyzed]

We went through something nutty like this, too. We rebuilt our family beach house. It's not exactly a duplex because it has shared areas, but also has two separate living areas off of a main entry hall. When it was time for the final inspection, my side got dinged for some really petty stuff while they never even went into my sister's side.

 

[ronandannette]

My in laws are moving into my basement so we are having it finished.

In Metro Atlanta in the past it was much more common to NOT permit a basement then to permit it. But more and more people are moving to our area from parts of the country where not permitting a basement remodel is unheard of and those people are reluctant to buy a home that has had non permitted work done. So we picked a general contractor who was pro permit.

It is just over 1200 sq ft that is being finished so not a trivial amount.

So far we have had a combined HVAC, rough electrical, and rough plumbing inspection. From the time the inspector opened his car door until he drove off was 3 minutes.

Today we got the rough framing inspection. Once again 3 minutes.

There is no way the inspector could have possible looked over the work being done well enough to actually say if it was done properly or not.

At least the permit only cost $329 and will give us as the seller some peace of mind later but this process has made me realize that just because something was permitted does not mean it was done right.

Buyer beware!

Permit Inspections are not general quality control. They monitor very, very specific things to be sure they conform to safety code, which you can be relatively confident your project does if the inspections have been passed. You need to manage workmanship issues on your own, which if you are not familiar with doing so makes having a reputable contractor all the more important. (S)he taking out permits is one small indication that you have one.

As an industry professional, we ride the heat of a ton of negative opinions formed largely by the impact of shoddy work done by incompetent contractors - the kind that are willing to work without permits; the kind hired by people who want to save $329. I feel so strongly about this issue that not only would I never consider buying a home that was reno'd without permits (if the scope of the work required them), I'd also be inclined to rat that seller out to the municipal authorities.

 

[msmayor]

Having a remodel permitted is going to preserve your homeowner's insurance. Imagine if you allowed a contractor to finish your basement without a permit, and then there was an electrical fire due to bad wiring. Your homeowner's insurance could validly deny the claim and pay you nothing because you didn't take reasonable care to ensure the work was done by getting...a permit and inspections.

 

[longboard55]

Wow, compare this to California. 6 months to get a permit and they count every nail. We are very strict out here, but watch the next earthquake and see how good we do.

 

[MrsCobraBubbles]

wow, i never knew people needed permits to remodel. Here, you only need a permit if you are changing the footprint of your house (addition) or building a new structure that's closer than 10 feet from your property line or higher than one story or that someone will be living in. Sorry you have to deal with it, sounds like it is slowing everything down. But I guess it makes sense that they would be more strict in a beautiful, historic old city like Atlanta.

 

[kdonnel]

Sorry you have to deal with it, sounds like it is slowing everything down.

It is not slowing anything down. You get the permit the day you apply. They come out for inspections the day you ask for the inspection. They only spend 90 to 120 seconds inspecting the HVAC, plumbing, and electrical rough ins.

Other then getting the proper check marks on a piece of paper it does not seem to protect anyone since I don't see how anyone no matter how good at their job, could inspect three different mechanical systems in 2 minutes or less with any degree of thoroughness. In the 3 minutes he was here he had to walk from his car to the basement, complete three different inspections, walk back to the front, sign and date the posted permit in three places, and walk back to his car which was parked across the street.

They are installing insulation today. The insulation inspection tomorrow will be the last one before getting a final certificate of occupancy inspection at the very end.

 

[ronandannette]

It is not slowing anything down. You get the permit the day you apply. They come out for inspections the day you ask for the inspection. They only spend 90 to 120 seconds inspecting the HVAC, plumbing, and electrical rough ins.

Other then getting the proper check marks on a piece of paper it does not seem to protect anyone since I don't see how anyone no matter how good at their job, could inspect three different mechanical systems in 2 minutes or less with any degree of thoroughness. In the 3 minutes he was here he had to walk from his car to the basement, complete three different inspections, walk back to the front, sign and date the posted permit in three places, and walk back to his car which was parked across the street.

They are installing insulation today. The insulation inspection tomorrow will be the last one before getting a final certificate of occupancy inspection at the very end.

May I ask what line of work you’re in? The reason for the question is to determine whether or not you have any background or expertise in this area. There are many things of which I’m very poorly informed and would be unable to make accurate assessments of based solely on my assumptions and casual observances.

 

[JaxDad]

Well, when we had some electrical work done the inspector personally knew the electrician since he had inspected so much of his work in the past. He came before the guy was even finished working, gave it the stamp of approval and left. Now, if the guy doing the work was someone he had never worked with before I bet it would have gone down differently.
Since you picked a pro-permit contractor, I imagine the inspector had worked with them in the past and knew they generally do fine work.

I definitely second this. I am an engineer, and I know which contractors require considerable oversight and which ones get it right the first time every time. In addition to likely knowing the contractors, the permit inspector can also tell a lot from even a cursory glance at the work in progress, materials, site maintenance, etc. I agree three minutes may be too fast for even a cursory glance, but the inspector likely has specific red flags that would require closer inspection.

 

[kimblebee]

100% with @ronandannette on this. If I found out a house didn’t get a permit to do some work, I’d stop looking at that house.

I will say, we may see it differently because hiring cheap unskilled labour just isn’t a thing here.

 

[tvguy]

You even have to have a permit here to replace an electric water heater.
It is supposed to be for your protection.
I've had permits for a new roof (twice)
I've had permits for adding on
I've had permits for a remodel.
I've had permits for adding solar panels.
The last roof I put on, the inspector didn't even have a ladder. I had to lend him mine. He was more interested in if we had smoke detectors and a carbon monoxide detector
During the add on , one inspector said we needed a side walk around the addition to give the legal distance between wood and dirt......but the guy who did the final inspection had no issue with it not having a sidewalk.
During the remodel things were discovered going back to when the house was built 40 years ago that were not up to code. Our crawl space is not tall enough.

 

[ronandannette]

You even have to have a permit here to replace an electric water heater.
It is supposed to be for your protection.
I've had permits for a new roof (twice)
I've had permits for adding on
I've had permits for a remodel.
I've had permits for adding solar panels.
The last roof I put on, the inspector didn't even have a ladder. I had to lend him mine. He was more interested in if we had smoke detectors and a carbon monoxide detector
During the add on , one inspector said we needed a side walk around the addition to give the legal distance between wood and dirt......but the guy who did the final inspection had no issue with it not having a sidewalk.
During the remodel things were discovered going back to when the house was built 40 years ago that were not up to code. Our crawl space is not tall enough.

If you’re referring to things found during your most recent inspection that were not currently code-compliant, that’s extremely common. Building codes evolve and are certainly different than they were 40 years ago.

 

[tvguy]

If you’re referring to things found during your most recent inspection that were not currently code-compliant, that’s extremely common. Building codes evolve and are certainly different than they were 40 years ago.

Yes. But my contractor said the crawl space height issue was code for decades before my house was built

 

[kdonnel]

May I ask what line of work you’re in? The reason for the question is to determine whether or not you have any background or expertise in this area. There are many things of which I’m very poorly informed and would be unable to make accurate assessments of based solely on my assumptions and casual observances.

I am an engineer that works for the company that produces what many believe are the best electric multimeters. So I do have some background in the electric side.

I went back and got the exact times from my camera.

The inspector exited his car at 11:20:30 and entered his car at 11:23:11.

161 seconds.

It takes 15 seconds or so to stroll to my back yard so 30 seconds round trip.

It took him 18 seconds to sign the permit.

In 113 seconds how effectively could he have possible inspected the entire plumbing rough in, there is a laundry room, kitchen, and bathroom, the electrical rough in, 8 rooms and some exterior work as well, and the HVAC rough in, a heat pump system and the associated forced air duct work?

I am sure there is a relationship between the general contractor I chose and the inspector, but past performance does not always predict future performance. Just because the general contractor did the work correct before does not mean he will do it correct always.

My point is that as a buyer of a property that has only had permitted work done, do not count on that inspection process to actually have determined if the work was done to code.

 

[kdonnel]

You even have to have a permit here to replace an electric water heater.
It is supposed to be for your protection.

I really wish they included the word tax or revenue as part of the permit name. In my case that appears to be the primary purpose based on the less then through inspections.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

wow, i never knew people needed permits to remodel. Here, you only need a permit if you are changing the footprint of your house (addition) or building a new structure that's closer than 10 feet from your property line or higher than one story or that someone will be living in. Sorry you have to deal with it, sounds like it is slowing everything down. But I guess it makes sense that they would be more strict in a beautiful, historic old city like Atlanta.

So if you were finishing your basement you wouldn't need a permit when interacting with electrical, HVAC (or similar systsem), heck even the basement itself that could legally be finished?

Specifically for my city for a basement finishing a permit would be required if finishing or remodeling a basement that involves construction of walls or installation or extension of electrical circuits, plumbing drains or vents, or ductwork.

Here's what you'd have to do for that in my area:

• Submit a Residential Building Permit Application.
• Submit a plan drawing, showing the remodel room sizes and uses, doors and windows, and room uses of adjoining/existing rooms.
• Refer to Basement Finishing and Remodeling Code Guidelines (which is actually for the entire county) for specific plan requirements.
• Submit a Homeowner Installation Notarized Statement. This process applies if the homeowner is doing the work

Now they don't require a permit if you're just doing repair and maintenance work, such as, carpeting, painting, wall paper, receptacle replacement, fixture replacement (sinks, stools, lighting fixtures), vanities and cabinetry.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I really wish they included the word tax or revenue as part of the permit name. In my case that appears to be the primary purpose based on the less then through inspections.

Maybe it was an individual inspector issue though that's my opinion. I don't think the fact that a city or county requires a permit itself for certain type of work is an issue but yes I understand how it may appear if you get someone who you don't think was actually inspecting to the level you think they should.

 

[MrsCobraBubbles]

So if you were finishing your basement you wouldn't need a permit when interacting with electrical, HVAC (or similar systsem), heck even the basement itself that could legally be finished?

Specifically for my city for a basement finishing a permit would be required if finishing or remodeling a basement that involves construction of walls or installation or extension of electrical circuits, plumbing drains or vents, or ductwork.

Here's what you'd have to do for that in my area:

• Submit a Residential Building Permit Application.
• Submit a plan drawing, showing the remodel room sizes and uses, doors and windows, and room uses of adjoining/existing rooms.
• Refer to Basement Finishing and Remodeling Code Guidelines (which is actually for the entire county) for specific plan requirements.
• Submit a Homeowner Installation Notarized Statement. This process applies if the homeowner is doing the work

Now they don't require a permit if you're just doing repair and maintenance work, such as, carpeting, painting, wall paper, receptacle replacement, fixture replacement (sinks, stools, lighting fixtures), vanities and cabinetry.

Nope. No permits for remodeling. There are some rules but I live in a rural area, rules are more lax here. I am more familiar about the rules for plumbing because my ex-husband was a plumber and I helped him study through years of plumbing school. Work on gas lines was supposed to be supervised by a master plumber; he had to sign off on it or be onsite when the gas company showed up or they wouldn't turn the gas back on, but if it was something easy that didn't require turning off the gas at the street then most people didn't bother having a plumber look over their work and they would hire someone from the next county over to come and do the work under the table. I remember listening to the plumbers moan about it at every single get-together. The next county over is even more rural than the one I live in and doesn't require licensing for tradesmen. My ex had the tool for turning off the gas, a long metal rod (forget the actual name of it) with a special wrench type end that he would put in the ground to turn the valve to shut off the main and he regularly used it to do side jobs for people, bypassing the gas company altogether. There are perks to living in the country!