Peoplemover Truly Inaccessible?

[Evita_W]

I honestly don't remember where, I just remember seeing them and thought it was cool even though it isn't something DH or I need.......I will have to see what I can find.

 

[fabfemmeboy]

It really is a shame they won't make any kind of modifications to enable people with mobility concerns to get up there. It's not like Disneyland, where there's no room to work with. But given the persistent rumour that the reason DL Peoplemover wasn't put back into service after the Rocket Rods debacle is that they would need to upgrade it to improve accessibility so instead it literally just sits dormant (and gets in the way of everything in Tomorrowland!)...I'm sadly not surprised they haven't added alternate access. Sigh.

 

[winterwhite]

True roller coasters that let you stay in a wheelchair or ECV?

I cannot imagine how this could be executed safely given the variety of sizes/weights/restraint mechanisms available in wheelchairs and ECVs.

certainly nothing that travels at a significant speed or upside down.

 

[Absimilliard]

I cannot imagine how this could be executed safely given the variety of sizes/weights/restraint mechanisms available in wheelchairs and ECVs.

certainly nothing that travels at a significant speed or upside down.

It can't, unless the park provides a very specific and narrow wheelchair that guests would need to transfer in. Then, unless the roller coaster has a separate loading dock for ADA guests like Space Mountain at DL, if it takes over a minute to unstrap a rider, roll him or her out, get the next one in and so on, the ride capacity will be completely trashed.

Why would I not let people bring their own chair on a roller coaster? Picture your average wheelchair, what is its max load rating? Next, even a tame roller coaster like Barnstormer exert over 2 times gravity forces on its riders, so now, your 100 lbs powerchair is now 200 lbs plus the weight of the riders, probably taking it above it maximum specs. The average roller coaster has a track gauge of 3 to 4 feet depending on how wide the cars are, so your chair has to safely fit in there along with all the necessary restraint systems.

Then, you have the issue with the rider's envelope: it is what someone could reach out of a ride by stretching their arms out. Someone in some kinds of wheelchairs would sit high, changing that completely. It's why Nav'i River Journey has no wheelchair accessible ride vehicle.

 

[Lilsia]

The turnstiles remain to count guests to determine if an attraction is still viable. But there are ways they could adjust and use touch free versions and really should in my opinion everywhere.

As for the speed ramps, I am ok with keeping them, but they should install an elevator. It might mean they need to move Lunching Pad elsewhere, but there is tons of land to do that with. And you really wouldn't want a ramp that goes all the way to the rocket jets or whatever they are called, it would have to be so steep you couldn't get up it and the length would like exceed that allowed by ADA, which means they would have to keep an elevator to that level as well.

Since Disney has added inclusiveness as a new key, all of these items and more should be addressed ASAP, otherwise adding the key is just more talk to make people feel good without doing anything. Everyone keeps talking about race, gender, orientation, some even remember religion and those are all good and should be included, but when talking inclusiveness, people forget those with disabilities need to be included as well and that they are often excluded. This not only includes disabilities, but us more Pooh shaped people. Look at Flights of Passage, there should be a way to accommodate both, perhaps with an alternative type of seat. Not it wouldn't be perfect, but it would be doable and inclusive and that is a newer attraction that ignored inclusiveness. The issues with People Mover can be fixed with relatively little cost and if they added an elevator, they could even create a vehicle where you wouldn't need to transfer, as they can slow down the moving walkway. Will Tron, Guardians or any upcoming roller coaster have a ride vehicle where people don't have to transfer from their wheelchair? There are some parks that have created such roller coasters, so it can be done and I call on Disney to do better at inclusiveness that includes ALL people, not just the groups that are being focussed on the be politically correct.

Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now, but it annoys me to see a claim that inclusiveness is a new key and they don't do what they say.

You are acting as if adding an elevator is no big deal. There is a reason why they put in elevator shafts into a building at the beginning of the build. I have been on that ride countless times and can't even picture where they would put it. There is very little room up on the decking, not to mention that below it is the Lunching Pad restaurant. I am sure that if it was a viable option that they would have done so. It's not a personal slight against those with disabilities so why take it so personally? Unless you are an engineer, I don't know how you can say that it is "doable" to put one in.

 

[Evita_W]

It really is a shame they won't make any kind of modifications to enable people with mobility concerns to get up there. It's not like Disneyland, where there's no room to work with. But given the persistent rumour that the reason DL Peoplemover wasn't put back into service after the Rocket Rods debacle is that they would need to upgrade it to improve accessibility so instead it literally just sits dormant (and gets in the way of everything in Tomorrowland!)...I'm sadly not surprised they haven't added alternate access. Sigh.

Umm, actually, after Rocket Rods, there would be no need to do anything to improve accessibility at Disneyland's people mover. There is already an elevator there now and as you said with a relative lack of room. Meaning all they would need to do is reopen access to the elevator and make sure at least one ride vehicle could accommodate a person in a wheelchair with a companion seat. None of this would be hard to do when building new ride vehicles.

 

[Evita_W]

You are acting as if adding an elevator is no big deal. There is a reason why they put in elevator shafts into a building at the beginning of the build. I have been on that ride countless times and can't even picture where they would put it. There is very little room up on the decking, not to mention that below it is the Lunching Pad restaurant. I am sure that if it was a viable option that they would have done so. It's not a personal slight against those with disabilities so why take it so personally? Unless you are an engineer, I don't know how you can say that it is "doable" to put one in.

Well, while I'm not an engineer, DH works for engineers and yes, it is indeed possible. It really isn't that hard. And in fact Disneyland proved it can be done when they put in Rocket Rods and they had an even smaller space to work with.

But I did say it would be easiest if they relocated the Lunching Pad to another location. Although that wouldn't be absolutely required, they could do a similar elevator setup to what they have for the Rocket Jets.

So, given that Disneyland has proven it is not only possible, but feasible to do it and WDW has continued to not do so, I do take issue with it and the newer rides that have chosen not to provide proper accessible options are even more of an issue.

 

[Lilsia]

Well, while I'm not an engineer, DH works for engineers and yes, it is indeed possible. It really isn't that hard. And in fact Disneyland proved it can be done when they put in Rocket Rods and they had an even smaller space to work with.

But I did say it would be easiest if they relocated the Lunching Pad to another location. Although that wouldn't be absolutely required, they could do a similar elevator setup to what they have for the Rocket Jets.

So, given that Disneyland has proven it is not only possible, but feasible to do it and WDW has continued to not do so, I do take issue with it and the newer rides that have chosen not to provide proper accessible options are even more of an issue.

Just because the set up at DL made it possible, does not mean that it would be possible at MK. They are not set up exactly the same way. If it was possible, I imagine that they would have done so, just as they did at DL. Building codes have changed, there could be countless reasons why they have not done so other then just to snub disabled people, like you suggest. I am sorry that there are rides that you can not go on. You are not alone in that. People have all kinds of issues that they have to deal with, if not being able to go on a few amusement park rides is your biggest complaint, then you are doing pretty good.

 

[Evita_W]

Just because the set up at DL made it possible, does not mean that it would be possible at MK. They are not set up exactly the same way. If it was possible, I imagine that they would have done so, just as they did at DL. Building codes have changed, there could be countless reasons why they have not done so other then just to snub disabled people, like you suggest. I am sorry that there are rides that you can not go on. You are not alone in that. People have all kinds of issues that they have to deal with, if not being able to go on a few amusement park rides is your biggest complaint, then you are doing pretty good.

My overall point is there are indeed ways it could be done at people mover, considering that Disney World pretty much sets its own building codes, that isn't much of a factor and things like Flights of Passage could have been designed to be far more inclusive and considering inclusiveness is a new key, they need to address these issues if they are serious and not just giving talk to make people feel like they are doing something about being inclusive.

It's not about me or even DH, but the point is that inclusiveness needs to include ALL people, we shouldn't keep making excuses saying for places not being inclusive, things like "If they could have done it, they would have done it years ago." Is indeed just making an excuse, anything is doable if they put their minds to it. And we shouldn't accept less than what is possible. Flights of Passage should never have opened without an alternative seat for those that can't transfer and one for those larger in stature at bare minimum. And we shouldn't just keep making excuses, we won't accept people making excuses for excluding based on other factors, why do we accept it for disabilities, those that are larger in stature, etc.? Just because it might be difficult? That doesn't excuse the behavior, change isn't easy, but it is necessary and it is time we step up and start holding companies accountable for excluding people with certain types of disabilities, especially when said companies are promoting that they now have inclusiveness as a core value.

 

[Selket]

Interesting discussion about adding elevators, etc to rides to make them accessible. I wonder if it would be possible in WDW to add an accessible area to the People Mover in a totally different location and the car(s) pull over to a different track then rejoin - like they did the skyliner kind of. I personally can ride the People Mover but I have a lot of trouble not falling on that escalator ramp thing going down (I'm fine going up). I'd rather take one stair at a time than ride that thing.

Are there any roller coasters (outside of Disney) that allow for the entire wheelchair to be loaded and locked into place? This is way OT but thinking about it is interesting. I have sometimes wondered why they haven't put in better WC access or a WC car for Buzz Lightyear. I would also be nice to be able to take the ECV into Space Mountain and walk a short distance to transfer. Of course I can barely get in and out of the ride vehicle - that's a whole other issue!

 

[Lilsia]

My overall point is there are indeed ways it could be done at people mover, considering that Disney World pretty much sets its own building codes, that isn't much of a factor and things like Flights of Passage could have been designed to be far more inclusive and considering inclusiveness is a new key, they need to address these issues if they are serious and not just giving talk to make people feel like they are doing something about being inclusive.

What? They don't set their own building code, that is ridiculous. Could they have made an area in FOP for those in wheelchairs? Probably but it would have been a whole separate section the was configured just for those in a wheelchair, which is a very tiny percentage of guests. So that means it would have been for only those in a chair and not their family with them. The way things move, it would not have been safe to put them in with the other riders. Then people would have complained that they were separated from their families. I don't think that there was a good solution for that ride for wheelchairs and have the ride be what it is. I am sure that if they were able to do so, and keep the ride integrity, then they would have. Disney is a business that needs to cater to the majority. They are also not a necessity in life that would cause undo hardship to those in wheelchairs if some of their rides are not accessible or safe to go on in a wheelchair. I can see you having a cause to complain if this was a grocery store or a bank, where you needed access. But some things just can not be made wheelchair accessible. Sorry.

 

[lanejudy]

While in theory retrofits are always possible, the expense, design and impacts to existing areas can rending an idea not feasible. I'm not familiar with the DLR but I do know that park is built at ground level whereas the MK at WDW has all the utilidors beneath, which presumably would impact some building options. I don't know what is beneath the PeopleMover and Lunching Pad at WDW, but it may be something that can't accommodate an elevator shaft at that specific that location without significant other changes as well. And WDW does not "set [their] own building codes."

I agree it's disappointing that some of the newer attractions are not more accessible. But I do recognize making an older attraction accessible may not be as easy as it sounds to the average person.

 

[Evita_W]

While in theory retrofits are always possible, the expense, design and impacts to existing areas can rending an idea not feasible. I'm not familiar with the DLR but I do know that park is built at ground level whereas the MK at WDW has all the utilidors beneath, which presumably would impact some building options. I don't know what is beneath the PeopleMover and Lunching Pad at WDW, but it may be something that can't accommodate an elevator shaft at that specific that location without significant other changes as well. And WDW does not "set [their] own building codes."

I agree it's disappointing that some of the newer attractions are not more accessible. But I do recognize making an older attraction accessible may not be as easy as it sounds to the average person.

As I said, I don't really care if it is easy anymore.....we don't see excuses being made for companies discriminating against someone because of race, gender, etc. because it is hard to change, why do we roll over and accept it for those with disabilities? And with DLR, people mover is one of the very few locations that had tunnels underneath it, which actually made it a lot harder for them, but they still did it. So, no, I don't accept utilidoors as being a reason it can't be done. Additionally, if they would prevent an elevator, they could use a wheelchair lift, the height is similar to Autopia at DLR and all it really would require is power and being able to connect to the load platform, which wouldn't be hard to place a lift to the side with slight modification to the platform. Now generally lifts must be operated by a CM, not the guest, but they would be workable as well.

 

[Evita_W]

What? They don't set their own building code, that is ridiculous. Could they have made an area in FOP for those in wheelchairs? Probably but it would have been a whole separate section the was configured just for those in a wheelchair, which is a very tiny percentage of guests. So that means it would have been for only those in a chair and not their family with them. The way things move, it would not have been safe to put them in with the other riders. Then people would have complained that they were separated from their families. I don't think that there was a good solution for that ride for wheelchairs and have the ride be what it is. I am sure that if they were able to do so, and keep the ride integrity, then they would have. Disney is a business that needs to cater to the majority. They are also not a necessity in life that would cause undo hardship to those in wheelchairs if some of their rides are not accessible or safe to go on in a wheelchair. I can see you having a cause to complain if this was a grocery store or a bank, where you needed access. But some things just can not be made wheelchair accessible. Sorry.

Actually, they do set their own building codes As far as local building codes (as long as they comply with state building codes, which also must comply with federal as well), it is why Reedy Creek exists.

And there are many ways FOP could be made accessible, even now.l and no, they wouldn't need to make it separate, especially when originally built.

My overall point that you seem to ignore is Disney says they are being inclusive of all people, but aren't walking the walk, they are only doing what is convenient and politically correct to be inclusive. Yes, it might be costly, but if they are serious about inclusiveness being a new key, then they need to make these changes, otherwise it is talking the talk and not walking the walk.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

Actually, they do set their own building codes As far as local building codes (as long as they comply with state building codes, which also must comply with federal as well), it is why Reedy Creek exists.

And there are many ways FOP could be made accessible, even now.l and no, they wouldn't need to make it separate, especially when originally built.

My overall point that you seem to ignore is Disney says they are being inclusive of all people, but aren't walking the walk, they are only doing what is convenient and politically correct to be inclusive. Yes, it might be costly, but if they are serious about inclusiveness being a new key, then they need to make these changes, otherwise it is talking the talk and not walking the walk.

if I am right the one problem with access People Mover for wheelchairs at World could be not on ground level. not easy to build elevator to stop on second floor not go down to ground level

 

[Evita_W]

if I am right the one problem with access People Mover for wheelchairs at World could be not on ground level. not easy to build elevator to stop on second floor not go down to ground level

Umm, not hard to build an elevator or lift to stop on a second floor at all.......they do it at hotels all the time. As I said Autopia at DL uses a lift for wheelchairs. Generally lifts are prebuilt and simply placed in place, sometimes surrounding elements will need additional elements like handrails, fences, what have you. Again, you just need power, usually 240 volt, same as a dryer outlet in your home.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

Umm, not hard to build an elevator or lift to stop on a second floor at all.......they do it at hotels all the time. As I said Autopia at DL uses a lift for wheelchairs. Generally lifts are prebuilt and simply placed in place, sometimes surrounding elements will need additional elements like handrails, fences, what have you. Again, you just need power, usually 240 volt, same as a dryer outlet in your home.

build it to stop but the footing of elevator needs to anchored in ground. the lift at Autopia is anchored in ground or is a lift from ground into ride car not to the second floor as I have not seen

 

[Lilsia]

if I am right the one problem with access People Mover for wheelchairs at World could be not on ground level. not easy to build elevator to stop on second floor not go down to ground level

What you are proposing calls for the elevator/lift to be on the outside of the ride. It is not possible to get into the cars from that way. There is not enough room for one to come up under the ride to the loading side. Not to mention that the build of that ride makes it difficult to just stop and start easily to load a WC. It sounds like you are not happy with how WDW treats disabled. It's a wonder you go there and support such a horrible company. And this has nothing to do with inclusion. This is more logistics then anything else.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

What you are proposing calls for the elevator/lift to be on the outside of the ride. It is not possible to get into the cars from that way. There is not enough room for one to come up under the ride to the loading side. Not to mention that the build of that ride makes it difficult to just stop and start easily to load a WC. It sounds like you are not happy with how WDW treats disabled. It's a wonder you go there and support such a horrible company. And this has nothing to do with inclusion. This is more logistics then anything else.

think you are responding to poster I was responding to who feels it should be easy to make something work if they wanted I am just not sure how to do what poster wants and I agree it is more logistics

 

[Lilsia]

think you are responding to poster I was responding to who feels it should be easy to make something work if they wanted I am just not sure how to do what poster wants and I agree it is more logistics

Oh, yep. Sorry Betty.