People need to stop complaining!

[southerngirl528]

Please don't flame me - I am just trying to understand. Really. I am not an owner.

If you buy resale, you probably paid significantly less than a direct purchase? So shouldn't you have less perks? You got the ultimate perk - you saved a whole lot of money?

Very valid point from an objective view, DisCatGirl! But sadly, most refuse to see it from that perspective.

One can't blame people for wanting it all, and btw, they want it "all" at a vastly discounted price, but when DVC finally starts to make some distinction between those buying direct at considerably higher prices and those that buy at bargain basement prices, well it's not pretty. I earnestly do feel for those that are already caught up in a purchase but didn't make the deadline but perks/benefits should have never, ever been an ongoing consideration in purchase of a Disney TS or any other TS for that matter.

 

[lovin'fl]

Please don't flame me - I am just trying to understand. Really. I am not an owner.

If you buy resale, you probably paid significantly less than a direct purchase? So shouldn't you have less perks? You got the ultimate perk - you saved a whole lot of money?

Kinda but prices have gone up so much in such a little time frame thanks to direct prices skyrocketing. Folks aren't buying the newly selling Poly because A- prices are too high and B- all studios. So Disney is taking this tactic to try and force folks to buy. I also suspect that they want to lower resale prices so they can grab more in ROFR for all the folks who want to buy direct but not the $170+ pp newly selling Poly and ask about what DVC is selling for cheaper (HHI, VB, SSR and OKW). Anyway...we bought AKV points in 2013 for $66pp resale and then sold them in 2015 for $80pp...now folks are paying in the $92-100 via resale. Yes, still cheaper than buying AKV direct with Disney, but more than we got them for and some folks are even buying them via resale for more than folks paid direct when DVC was selling them new (my SIL bought AKV direct for around $100pp, I do believe). So I can see why they'd be irked to lose some perks...those waiting to close that were sucker punched by this. Folks who make offers from 6/4 on...not so much as I don't have an issue since we know DVC can change what they want with regard to perks and deals. Though I do think this will hurt resale prices (for those wanting to sell).

 

[pmaurer74]

Please don't flame me - I am just trying to understand. Really. I am not an owner.

If you buy resale, you probably paid significantly less than a direct purchase? So shouldn't you have less perks? You got the ultimate perk - you saved a whole lot of money?

Yes and I agree with you however, I think people (including me) see DVC as an emotional investment as well as a monetary one. We love Disney and I think this makes us feel like we have no value to them. Like a friend shunning you for new friends. I know it makes no sense but the Disney brand is very different in how it affects people emotionally.

 

[Sophie_inBflo]

Kinda but prices have gone up so much in such a little time frame thanks to direct prices skyrocketing. Folks aren't buying the newly selling Poly because A- prices are too high and B- all studios. So Disney is taking this tactic to try and force folks to buy.

This is an interesting point about Poly... we went to the DVC presentation a few months ago, and ended up buying Poly points. We were staying at Poly on rented points at the time, but our stay ended up being SO MISERABLE (so many problems, it's not worth recounting!), that we cancelled our contract withing the 10-day cancellation period. At the time we signed on the dotted line, we already were pretty certain that we wouldn't want to stay at Poly... ever, so we asked the salesperson several times if we could get other contracts- and she was evasive, non-committal, etc. So when we cancelled, we pretty much decided that we *had* to buy resale... we had read enough to know that we needed to buy where we wanted to stay, and we knew without doubt that we wanted to stay almost anyplace but Poly!

All of this is just to say that Disney can force all it wants, but sometimes there needs to be more options. It's backing people into a corner which many do not want to be in.

 

[southerngirl528]

Yes and I agree with you however, I think people (including me) see DVC as an emotional investment as well as a monetary one. We love Disney and I think this makes us feel like we have no value to them. Like a friend shunning you for new friends. I know it makes no sense but the Disney brand is very different in how it affects people emotionally.

I think you just eloquently explained what a few others have alluded to. Good points.

Even if I had not bought direct so many years ago, even if I had never received a single discount, I would still feel warm & fuzzy every time I drive into OKW. So many happy memories there from the past, and so many to look forward to. Being a DVC member and having access to such wonderful accommodations, especially since I have a large brood and we need large accommodations, has been a blessing. One I would not have been able to afford without my DVC membership.

 

[disneynutz]

This is an interesting point about Poly... we went to the DVC presentation a few months ago, and ended up buying Poly points. We were staying at Poly on rented points at the time, but our stay ended up being SO MISERABLE (so many problems, it's not worth recounting!), that we cancelled our contract withing the 10-day cancellation period. At the time we signed on the dotted line, we already were pretty certain that we wouldn't want to stay at Poly... ever, so we asked the salesperson several times if we could get other contracts- and she was evasive, non-committal, etc. So when we cancelled, we pretty much decided that we *had* to buy resale... we had read enough to know that we needed to buy where we wanted to stay, and we knew without doubt that we wanted to stay almost anyplace but Poly!

All of this is just to say that Disney can force all it wants, but sometimes there needs to be more options. It's backing people into a corner which many do not want to be in.

There are many posts where direct buyers never knew about resale or that they could buy resorts other than what was being pushed by the guide.

Bill

 

[_auroraborealis_]

So, here's the thing about "resale owners not getting the same perks because they didn't pay Disney."

Points are a net zero at resorts. New points aren't being created at BCV, or AKV, that Disney can sell direct. There is a defined, finite number of points. At old resorts, these points were fully sold, save for small pools kept by DVD. All of those points, initially, were purchased directly from Disney.

So the difference in cashflow, to Disney, of providing benefits to someone who bought direct 10 years ago at some resort, and the person who buys that person's contract on the resale market is actually zero. There is very limited marginal cost created through resale to Disney, and those marginal costs could be rolled into estoppel and closing easily enough (they are: creating a member account, and a one-time issuance of the new member card; after that, the regular reissuance is just the same for a resale buyer as it was for the original contract holder).

This really is all about pushing the current, live and direct resorts, with a side of potentially upping the ROFR game and reselling old resorts at the book direct prices currently listed (which ae in the $140-160/point range, even for 2042 resorts).

It's also a statement about the value of those who own, versus people who represent current income.

 

[southerngirl528]

This really is all about pushing the current, live and direct resorts, with a side of potentially upping the ROFR game and reselling old resorts at the book direct prices currently listed (which ae in the $140-160/point range, even for 2042 resorts)

Agreed.

 

[Sophie_inBflo]

This really is all about pushing the current, live and direct resorts, with a side of potentially upping the ROFR game and reselling old resorts at the book direct prices currently listed (which ae in the $140-160/point range, even for 2042 resorts).

No my non-business brain wonders why Disney doesn't just buy back *most* of the ROFR contracts that are more than 20% under their (Disney's) price- they could then be sold at that $140-$160 range, which would force resale prices up.. eventually, Disney could get resale just close enough to direct that some people would still go that route, but most people wouldn't.
I would be one of those people happy to buy other contracts direct from Disney- not least because you get the points immediately! As everyone knows, with resale it can take months. With direct, it can be within 24 hours.

 

[DisDadDVC]

Yes and I agree with you however, I think people (including me) see DVC as an emotional investment as well as a monetary one. We love Disney and I think this makes us feel like we have no value to them. Like a friend shunning you for new friends. I know it makes no sense but the Disney brand is very different in how it affects people emotionally.

If it's any consolation, we were of no value to them before this move. This is just more obvious.

 

[lovin'fl]

Disney DVC does sell all resorts. They just have wait lists until they ROFR or foreclose on a contract. I think they are greedy and want to ROFR at lower prices and are hoping this new restriction will lowere resale prices a bit. I think it will and I bet you see a lot more resales getting ROFR'd.

 

[ColinBlair]

Please don't flame me - I am just trying to understand. Really. I am not an owner.

If you buy resale, you probably paid significantly less than a direct purchase? So shouldn't you have less perks? You got the ultimate perk - you saved a whole lot of money?

Depends on the DVC resort. Anyone buying a DVC resort that has opened after 2004 (SSR and newer) resale is paying significantly less than the original direct purchase. Anyone buying a pre-2004 WDW area DVC resort is probably paying significantly more per point than the original purchase. I think that BCV owners wanting to sell have more right to complain than anyone else as they had the most to lose.

I just looked at some of the resale sites and the prices do seem to be dropping, it will be interesting to see what happens with ROFR.

 

[southerngirl528]

I think it will and I bet you see a lot more resales getting ROFR'd.

I actually hope this happens. As a very longtime member I have not liked seeing how the disparity of resale vs. direct pricing has gotten larger and larger. For many years the price difference was a very small percentage, thus resales just weren't a big thing. Which is likely one of the reasons DVC did not place any sort of restriction on resales memberships for so many years. All that changed under leadership changes over the years, by allowing/encouraging rapid price increases for direct purchase and not exercising ROFR more often. I hope the playing field evens out a bit. I think it keeps the value of all the points I own stronger.

 

[Sophie_inBflo]

Disney DVC does sell all resorts. They just have wait lists until they ROFR or foreclose on a contract. I think they are greedy and want to ROFR at lower prices and are hoping this new restriction will lowere resale prices a bit. I think it will and I bet you see a lot more resales getting ROFR'd.

LOL-- this is my 18th post at disboards, and all have been since the DVC thing has come down. I think it's time for me to go find a happier forum. Which are the best ones more along the lines of: "DISNEY IS THE HAPPIEST PLACE EVER!!!"
(I'm only joking of course, but I think you are exactly right, lovin'fl, about them trying to get resale prices lower- which is a lowering thought!)

 

[DisDadDVC]

I actually hope this happens. As a very longtime member I have not liked seeing how the disparity of resale vs. direct pricing has gotten larger and larger. For many years the price difference was a very small percentage, thus resales just weren't a big thing. Which is likely one of the reasons DVC did not place any sort of restriction on resales memberships for so many years. All that changed under leadership changes over the years, by allowing/encouraging rapid price increases for direct purchase and not exercising ROFR more often. I hope the playing field evens out a bit. I think it keeps the value of all the points I own stronger.

The thing is, Disney has an advantage now. The points are more valuable to them because they have the ability to waive their magic wand and turn these into retail points and we don't. So they drive down the value on the resale market, without driving down the value of the points to themselves. It's actually quite clever.

 

[pmaurer74]

LOL-- this is my 18th post at disboards, and all have been since the DVC thing has come down. I think it's time for me to go find a happier forum. Which are the best ones more along the lines of: "DISNEY IS THE HAPPIEST PLACE EVER!!!"
(I'm only joking of course, but I think you are exactly right, lovin'fl, about them trying to get resale prices lower- which is a lowering thought!)

Not this forum! I created some happy posts on the theme park and strategies board a few weeks ago. It has been tough because of all the rapid changes Disney has been making lately. People are unhappy. Keep in mind, if we did not love Disney, we would not all be here in the first place.

 

[Sammie]

Very valid point from an objective view, DisCatGirl! But sadly, most refuse to see it from that perspective.

One can't blame people for wanting it all, and btw, they want it "all" at a vastly discounted price, but when DVC finally starts to make some distinction between those buying direct at considerably higher prices and those that buy at bargain basement prices, well it's not pretty. I earnestly do feel for those that are already caught up in a purchase but didn't make the deadline but perks/benefits should have never, ever been an ongoing consideration in purchase of a Disney TS or any other TS for that matter.

Based on comments I have seen on Facebook, I think the recent new direct buyers have been hitting DVC hard with complaints about why resale buyers get the same perks as someone probably paying at least double or more. It is a valid question.

 

[Sammie]

No my non-business brain wonders why Disney doesn't just buy back *most* of the ROFR contracts that are more than 20% under their (Disney's) price- they could then be sold at that $140-$160 range, which would force resale prices up.. eventually, Disney could get resale just close enough to direct that some people would still go that route, but most people wouldn't.
I would be one of those people happy to buy other contracts direct from Disney- not least because you get the points immediately! As everyone knows, with resale it can take months. With direct, it can be within 24 hours.

Cash flow. DVC really doesn't have unlimited cash to do this. Where would they get the money to buy back most of the ROFR contracts?

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I think the recent new direct buyers have been hitting DVC hard with complaints about why resale buyers get the same perks as someone probably paying at least double or more. It is a valid question.

By that logic, why does someone who bought OKW when it was sold direct get the same perks as someone buying Poly direct? They paid a lot less.

 

[DisDadDVC]

Here is a good rule of thumb for WDW:

If it is good for you, it is bad for Disney. Look for it to be taken away soon....