People certified in CPR..here's a scenerio for you. WWYD?

[Disney1fan2002]

A 60 year old man is walking down the street in front of you. He drops, not breathing. You are CPR certified so you start CPR. You open his shirt and discover he has DNR tatooed on his chest.

WWYD?

I have a friend who would not want to be resuscitated if he drops dead. He is 60 years old, but has had enough of this life. If he drops of a heart attack, he wants that to be it. He doesn't want someone bringing him back. He thinks if he has DNR tattooed on his chest, that will work. Would it? If not, are there medical bracelets that have DNR on them, for an otherwise healthy person?

 

[scottishduffy]

Being a medical person I would try to assess him. If he has a pulse but is not breathing, then I would continue the rescue breathing.

If the person has no pulse at all, then I would probably stop right then and there (if the person were alone). If the person had family near-by then I may continue with CPR until EMS arrives and let them make that call for me since I would not want to distress the family who may not be as at-ease with passing as our DNR'ed friend. If the family was OK with me stopping, I would stop immediately.

 

[xCourxCorex]

I would not continue CPR if I saw the tattoo, or a medical bracelet.

 

[AKL_Megs]

If he is not BREATHING but still has a pulse, then he is still alive. I would administer rescue breathing until an ambulance arrived.

Also... what does DNR mean? It could mean his daughter... Diane Nicole Russell ... it could mean anything. If it was on a medical alert necklace, well, that is another story.

I would never, ever let someone die just because they had DNR tattooed on them.

 

[AshleyW]

A 60 year old man is walking down the street in front of you. He drops, not breathing. You are CPR certified so you start CPR. You open his shirt and discover he has DNR tatooed on his chest.

WWYD?

I have a friend who would not want to be resuscitated if he drops dead. He is 60 years old, but has had enough of this life. If he drops of a heart attack, he wants that to be it. He doesn't want someone bringing him back. He thinks if he has DNR tattooed on his chest, that will work. Would it? If not, are there medical bracelets that have DNR on them, for an otherwise healthy person?

If he wants a DNR order, he needs to get one from his doctor. A DNR tattoo doesn't matter - emergency responders must help anyone, UNLESS they have a DNR bracelet. To get a DNR bracelet, you have to have a valid DNR order from your physician.

I'll add that I think this varies by state - but this is how it is in Iowa, as I understand it.

 

[minkydog]

If I saw someone drop unconcious to the sidewalk I probably would not unbutton his shirt or check his jewelry for indications of his resuscitation status. No, i would be busy checking his pulse, listening for breathing and starting chest compressions. And I would do it until I was exhausted or another medical person takes over. Considering that a person's chances of living through a "sudden death" experience is very low, and even lower if it occurs outside a hospital setting, I would not be one bit worried about not honoring this man's wishes. The last thing on my mind would be looking for "notes" from the afflicted.

 

[NikitaZee]

I agree with AKL_Megs. I would administer CPR until an ambulance arrived. A tattoo certainly wouldn't stop me.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

He would need a medical ID bracelet/necklace for me to DNR.

 

[Jennasis]

Hmmm...I wonder if there would be liability for the passer by if they rescusitate someone with a DNR bracelet (or tattoo) and the victim survived but with brain damage or in a vegetative state.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Hmmm...I wonder if there would be liability for the passer by if they rescusitate someone with a DNR bracelet (or tattoo) and the victim survived but with brain damage or in a vegetative state.

I think there is always liability when you resuscitate., esp. if your certification is expired.

 

[monkey68]

A tattoo is not a valid DNR order. Any Joe Shmoe can go to a tattoo shop and have DNR tattooed onto them.

 

[AKL_Megs]

Hmmm...I wonder if there would be liability for the passer by if they rescusitate someone with a DNR bracelet (or tattoo) and the victim survived but with brain damage or in a vegetative state.

I know for me, as a flight attendant, we are covered by some law as far as this is concerned. I don't know if the law applies to ALL who are CPR certified.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I know for me, as a flight attendant, we are covered by some law as far as this is concerned. I don't know if the law applies to ALL who are CPR certified.

Good Samaritan law (I think!)

I'm CPR certified (well was)--stripping off their shirt if I'm not using one of those d-fib machiney thingies (due for recert I guess ), isn't part of the procedure.

Also, I can't honor a tattoo--likely, I wouldn't even notice it as again--not part of the steps.

If they are in a vegitative state or coma and have a DNR (as my grandfather in law did), then they are not put on life support. They are permitted to die. He was going to have hospice at his house, but he passed at the hospital the day he was to go home. His DNR included no IV's and no nutrition.

So if someone has a legally viable DNR--they wouldn't be kept alive anyway once that is validated.

 

[disney1995disney]

I am an EMT for 18+ years.. Unless there is a valid DNR (current papers) he is getting life support..

Just get him to the E/R and let them figure it out from there.. But then, I am a professional so I have a duty to act with my certification..

 

[CajunDixie]

A 60 year old man is walking down the street in front of you. He drops, not breathing. You are CPR certified so you start CPR. You open his shirt and discover he has DNR tatooed on his chest.

WWYD?

I have a friend who would not want to be resuscitated if he drops dead. He is 60 years old, but has had enough of this life. If he drops of a heart attack, he wants that to be it. He doesn't want someone bringing him back. He thinks if he has DNR tattooed on his chest, that will work. Would it? If not, are there medical bracelets that have DNR on them, for an otherwise healthy person?

A tat is not a legal document and why am I opening his shirt? I don't have a defibulator in my purse, how about you?

Being a medical person I would try to assess him. If he has a pulse but is not breathing, then I would continue the rescue breathing.

If the person has no pulse at all, then I would probably stop right then and there (if the person were alone). If the person had family near-by then I may continue with CPR until EMS arrives and let them make that call for me since I would not want to distress the family who may not be as at-ease with passing as our DNR'ed friend. If the family was OK with me stopping, I would stop immediately.

Being a medical person you should know a tat is not a legally binding document.

Hmmm...I wonder if there would be liability for the passer by if they rescusitate someone with a DNR bracelet (or tattoo) and the victim survived but with brain damage or in a vegetative state.

Nope, anyone can sue but the Good Samaritan law will protect you.

I think there is always liability when you resuscitate., esp. if your certification is expired.

I am an EMT for 18+ years.. Unless there is a valid DNR (current papers) he is getting life support..

Just get him to the E/R and let them figure it out from there.. But then, I am a professional so I have a duty to act with my certification..

Winner Winner Chicken Dinner.

As an EMT-A I'm going to check him then start chest compressions and yell for someone to call 911, ask for others to help do chest compressions (with the shirt on). Now if someone digs out his wallet while we are doing the chest compressions and there is a valid DNR then yes I would stop. But here we wait for the police to pull ID. If he has family with him that insist he has a DNR then I'm still going to do CPR as it's a basic thing to do....upon the arrival of the medics they can call medical control for further directions. Some will provide just basic care and transport while sending the family to get the DNR or contacting the doctor that signed it. Basic CPR can be continued...they'd just hold off on tubing, shocking and medicating them.

 

[princess momma]

I would start CPR, regardless of a bracelet or tatoo.

If I've started CPR I won't stop until the person is revived, someone else takes over CPR, or I have a doctors order to stop.

 

[Jennasis]

I would start CPR, regardless of a bracelet or tatoo.

If I've started CPR I won't stop until the person is revived, someone else takes over CPR, or I have a doctors order to stop.

Is that SOP for cpr (what is taught in CPR courses)? I can think of a few scenarios (some very unlikely, but still) where using those criteria above, you'd be doing CPR for a long long time....perhaps indefinitely. There hasto be some point at which time, continuing the CPR is not advisable or pointless?

 

[CajunDixie]

Is that SOP for cpr (what is taught in CPR courses)? I can think of a few scenarios (some very unlikely, but still) where using those criteria above, you'd be doing CPR for a long long time....perhaps indefinitely. There hasto be some point at which time, continuing the CPR is not advisable or pointless?

Not really indefinitely as one person alone cannot do effect chest compressions for more than a few minutes. You should try it on a dummy. TV makes it look like you can do compressions for a long period of time but if you actually have a person hooked up to a monitor you can "see" if the compressions are "good" When a rescuer tires the compressions aren't as hard/deep. Adrenaline rushes only last so long. Not to mention you have to consider the health and physical condition of the person doing the compressions. It wasn't that long ago a bystander at a school revived a person only to die themselves....it's a very physically challenging action.

 

[AshleyW]

Is that SOP for cpr (what is taught in CPR courses)? I can think of a few scenarios (some very unlikely, but still) where using those criteria above, you'd be doing CPR for a long long time....perhaps indefinitely. There hasto be some point at which time, continuing the CPR is not advisable or pointless?

SOP is to continue until the PT is revived or until someone qualified is able to either take over or call it.

 

[monkey68]

Not really indefinitely as one person alone cannot do effect chest compressions for more than a few minutes. You should try it on a dummy. TV makes it look like you can do compressions for a long period of time but if you actually have a person hooked up to a monitor you can "see" if the compressions are "good" When a rescuer tires the compressions aren't as hard/deep. Adrenaline rushes only last so long. Not to mention you have to consider the health and physical condition of the person doing the compressions. It wasn't that long ago a bystander at a school revived a person only to die themselves....it's a very physically challenging action.

I got my certification on a dummy, but the first time I had to do it on a real person, I got tired much quicker. First off, you can't always be at an ideal height when it's a real person, I know in the hospital, there's a whole team of people, the bed is at the height of whatever it is, and since the person doing compressions is constantly getting switched out, you can't keep adjusting the height.

I think my CPR class had us going for a certain number of rounds, and then switch (if there are 2 providers). Honestly, maybe it's because I'm not very muscular, I get tired much sooner on a real person, the dummy was much easier. Especially if it' a big person, you're putting in all this energy, I agree that in the end, you're probably doing more harm than good to the responder.