Pentax K20D: 20 fps DSLR! Also K200D

[Groucho]

Tomorrow is the official announcement of the new Pentax K200D and K20D, but some foreign press releases are coming out now... Pentax Japan and Germany have brochures on line, so we finally have details.

The K200D looks to be much closer to the K10D than the K100D - with the 10mp sensor but also stuff like shooting in DNG, 22-bit processing, a 2.7" LCD, dedicated raw button, etc. The K100D's small buffer seems to be somewhat bettered - my German is pretty rusty so I can't tell for sure, but it looks like it has a hi/lo mode, where lo mode will be continuous JPGs while the hi mode is only 4. I believe that the K200D will also have weathersealing!

The K20D is what I've been really anticipating, and it sounds like it exceeds expectations! Yes, it can do 20 FPS! But to be fair, that's a "burst" mode. Normal is 3 fps, which is kind of surprising (I expected 5+.) But then, the files are big - this is brand new, Pentax-designed, 14.6 mp CMOS sensor. A few photos taken with the camera have been released over the past few days - the detail is astonishing (you could easily get away with 1:1 crops) and the noise levels are extremely low, on par with the D300, while retaining a ton of detail. (Several have compared it to the Canon Mk3 in IQ.) Shake reduction is improved (claimed up to 4 stops), faster AF, quiet shutter, PC sync connection, 2.7" LCD, live view (pretty standard nowadays) that works with shake reduction, bracketing for all sorts of things like WB, color settings, etc, etc... more details will no doubt come out over the next day or two as English press releases come out and the first reviews appear. Oh, and some dynamic range controls, as well. Price will probably be somewhere around $1,200.

Some new lenses too:
200mm F2.8, 300mm F4.0, 35mm F2.8 1:1 macro, 55-300mm, and an updated 18-55mm kit lens. No mention of the 60-250mm F4, but hopefully that'll be along shortly.

Availability should be mid-February for the K200D and early March for the K20D - in time for my WDW trip in April. I can't wait! So much for Pentax rolling over and dying after being bought by Hoya!

For those who can read German, you can take a look at the brochures here:
K20D and K200D.

 

[Shifletjl]

I know you have been waiting for this release, Groucho. I'm not ready for an upgrade myself, but I am happy to learn that the Pentax line is continuing to evolve. Thanks for sharing the news!

 

[Groucho]

Shifletjl: yes I have. For probably a year or so, I've been anticipating what the K10D's next gen would look like with the intention of upgrading.

It's official now! Finally!

There's an interesting little essay here from a tester, who points out the good and bad things and also why. Pentax had to choose between upgrading the AF or the imaging in order to keep the camera profitable, and chose imaging - so the AF is about at the same level as the K10D, probably slightly better but not significantly so. This is also why the drive speed is not advanced. They really focused on the sensor - it's got the same pixel density as 12mp sensors of the same size (read: D300) thanks to reducing the circuitry between them, and has comparable ISO performance (including ISO 6400 - expect my version of Gdad's 6400 thread in a few months ). Pentax has a patent on the design of the pixels, so for the moment, this is probably the most advanced sensor around. It's also self-healing - it can detect dead pixels and map them out automatically, instead of you sending it back to the factory. Cool!

Not only that, it's probably got the most advanced dust-avoidance technology - sensor shake, special coating on the sensor, and it can even map out exactly where dust is on the sensor and display that when you're in sensor cleaning mode, so you know exactly where you need to clean!

Other cool things include the ability to colormatch your LCD (no other DSLR offers this), it can shoot infrared right out of the box, it also has all sorts of black/white features to replicate using film with various filters, a 200% more dynamic range mode (instant HDR), and an advanced intervalometer - it'll take up to 99 pictures at an interval you choose, perfect for life-lapse. Naturally it has the usual Live View functionality as well - zooming, etc.

The negatives seem to be the old-fashioned autofocus, average-speed continuous shooting (except for the 20fps at 1.6mp, of course!), "only" 2.7" screen vs 3" (conflicting reports on whether it's 230k or 630k pixels), and no HDMI output. I'm a little bummed about the AF, but the K10D was by all reports quite good, so it's not like it'll be bad, but not as cutting-edge as the competition. (I'll see how it works on Peter Pan!) On the other hand, it costs a lot less than a D300 ($1,300 body or $1,400 w/lens - no doubt street price will be a bit less.) Still a little more than I'm really comfy spending, but not out of line for what you're getting.

All in all - I'm pretty impressed with what I've seen so far, hopefully reviewers will be similarly impressed!

 

[mabas9395]

20 fps, that's close to movie quality. Add a mic and you can get rid of your video camera.

Trouble with that idea though is after about an hour and a half you would be up to 108k shutter clicks, and most dSLRs don't last much beyond that.

But its exciting to hear about the advances in technology. I've only had my Rebel XT for two years and they have already come a long way.

 

[ukcatfan]

 

[ukcatfan]

DPReview is now posting it.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08012311pentaxk20d.asp

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08012310pentaxtk200d.asp

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08012312pentaxk20dhandson.asp

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0801/08012309pentaxlenses.asp

I have not even read all of this yet, but wanted to share.

Kevin

 

[gokenin]

I have been dreading this day now I have to decide do I keep my k100d and feed my LBA of do I take my existing lens selection and upgrade? Should I uprgade to the K10 which will come down in price i am sure or go for the k200 ? It all looked so clean before today when all i wanted was the 12-24 and I would be happy. decisions decisions oh well no one ever said owning an SLR would be cheap

 

[ukcatfan]

I will not likely upgrade from my K100D until the next generation. If the K10D comes down to the ~$400 range I might reconsider, but stock will likely be gone before it goes that low. All the new features are really interesting, but the only one that really gets me excited is the nice high ISO performance of the K20D. That could migrate down to the entry level in the next generation and I am still very happy with my camera.

Kevin

 

[Code]

Trouble with that idea though is after about an hour and a half you would be up to 108k shutter clicks, and most dSLRs don't last much beyond that.

I would assume since the full quality continuous speed is 3 fps that the 20 fps mode just leaves the shutter open ala live view?

 

[ukcatfan]

I would assume since the full quality continuous speed is 3 fps that the 20 fps mode just leaves the shutter open ala live view?

I have to agree here. Since they did not upgrade the mechanics of the focus, shutter, etc. I just do not think it could possibly move that fast with the shutter closing.

Kevin

 

[Groucho]

20 fps, that's close to movie quality. Add a mic and you can get rid of your video camera.

One of the big rumors that surfaced in the last week or two was that the camera was actually going to be called the K20HD and sport a 1.3 crop 16:9 sensor (same pixel density as the usual APS 12 mp sensor, just more on the sides), and be capable of shooting 1920x1080 60fps video. Needless to say, that rumor was not true.

I would assume since the full quality continuous speed is 3 fps that the 20 fps mode just leaves the shutter open ala live view?

I would assume that that is correct. I'm not sure how much focusing or exposure change'll happen in such a situation - it sounds like there's still a little question about whether or not it does contrast detection AF (which you'd need for focusing in Live View, without dropping the shutter) in addition to the usual AF. I doubt the 20 fps will be all that useful in most situations (especially if it's not AFing), but there are times... I'm anticipating putting my fisheye on manual focus and shooting at 20 fps while going down Splash Mountain.

I will not likely upgrade from my K100D until the next generation. If the K10D comes down to the ~$400 range I might reconsider, but stock will likely be gone before it goes that low. All the new features are really interesting, but the only one that really gets me excited is the nice high ISO performance of the K20D. That could migrate down to the entry level in the next generation and I am still very happy with my camera.

Well, a lot of the things I am anxious for are things that the K10D has - Hyperprogram, TAv mode, more external buttons, etc.

Then again, there are a lot of cool new features - the intervalometer could be fun, I'm anxious to try infrared, the HDR mode looks great in the demo shots... and definitely the increased resolution and especially high ISO quality has got me all jazzed up. It sounds like this sensor will really separate the good lenses from the great ones!

Regardless, the K10D is already $509 after rebate... that's a huge amount of camera for the price, compared to what that much money gets you from the competition. And less than half what you'll pay for a K20D!

 

[Golf4food]

Groucho,

I want to hear your side of things for my internal debate - I am contemplating moving up in the world from our Pentax ist*DL and was leaning towars a Canon Xsi / 30D / 40D, but the new Pentax's announced sound good. How would you rate the lot of them against each other?

We only have one Sigma 18-125 lense at the moment, so I wouldn't be losing much if I switched to Canon on the lense front, but if we got a Pentax I could keep the lense and spend the money I would spend on a new base lense and get something nicer and have two lenses in the end, etc.

What say thee?

 

[Groucho]

Well, the new entry-level Canon finally got spot metering... but seriously. It's probably too early to say for sure about K200D vs XSi, the XSi has more mp but the K200D will probably beat it in most other respects. It's hard to tell about IQ yet as the XSi has a brand-new sensor while the K200D has, I believe, basically the same sensor as the K10D. Very nice but not brand-new. The K200D will give you IS with every lens unlike the Canon, which is still pretty nice IMHO. It sounds like we don't get to make fun of Canon's kit lens as much any more as their new IS one is supposed to be much better optically - but I wouldn't worry about comparisons, the Pentax one was always quite nice and the new one is supposed to be even better.

As for 40D vs K20D - I think the only thing the 40D has is higher fps, from what I can see, the K20D beats it in every other respect. To be fair, I haven't spent the time to compare them spec-to-spec, but the K20D is definitely aiming above the 40D, closer to the D300.

But again, it's still a little early to say for sure until reviews of the K200D/K20D/XSi come out. (And I dread what bash-'em Phil at DPReview is going to say, after the unfair hatchet job he did on the K10D.) But I would say that Pentax's future is looking quite good! Hoya is very serious about continuing to improve the line.

 

[ukcatfan]

I replied over on the XSi thread before coming over here. I agree with Groucho's take on it. I would add that by saving on not having to buy a new lens, you could pick up the very popular 50mm f/1.4 for $200 or less. I do not know if you do much low light shooting, but if so it is a great lens for the price. I believe they also announced a new 55-300mm lens if you are looking towards the tele end.

I am impressed that Canon is starting to respond to consumer demands, but we still have not seen what Nikon has up their sleeve next week. It is supposed to be the D40x replacement and there is rumor that there will be a new 50mm f/1.8 with a motor so that line can be more user friendly to low light shooters. Also, there is supposed to be an updated kit lens with IS just like Canon.

This is a very exciting time to be a DSLR user! I am sticking to Pentax for now, but am only a couple hundred dollars invested in the system, so could easily switch in the future.

Kevin

 

[Golf4food]

Thanks Groucho and ukcatfan -

It will be likely May or June before our tax rebates get to everyone so I have some time to wait until all these new cameras are actually released, but I like the sounds of the K20D - and keeping my current lens (which I like) and adding a telephoto in the 250-300 range (we visit the zoo a lot).