Pennsylvania governor orders flags to be flown at half staff - agree or disagree

[declansdad]

He would have no knowledge of whether his supervisor's did anything else. He wouldn't be in that loop.

If the only thing he ever did with his life was teach people how to play football, I would agree with you.

I have no ties to Penn State.

And you don't think he would have figured out nothing was done when no one was arrested. Sorry that is a weak argument.

I still haven't found anything that he did that was so great besides coach a team that won two championships in 46 years and create some academic scholarships at Penn State.

 

[penn19]

Not really. Just the same few posters. Look at the poll. The proof is in the pudding but some are blind to the facts.

39 is not a few. But "facts" supporting a particular argument work both ways.

 

[Wall-E1]

I voted "no" on lowering the flags to half staff for this morally flawed individual. Yes, he did what was required by law by reporting it to his superior, but he should have reported it to the police... immediately.

I don't consider reporting the incident to Gary Schultz(if he actually did so) the same as reporting the incident to the police. Gary Schultz was a senior vice president, which gave him oversight of the police department. His position also gave him oversight over Human Resources, Physical Plant, Investment Management, Auxiliary and Business Services, Corporate Controller, Budget office, Controller College of Medicine/Hershey Medical Center Legal Services and Commonwealth Campus Business Operations. This man was not a police officer or sergeant. He oversaw management of these different university departments.

http://sportsbybrooks.com/transcript-joe-paterno-grand-jury-testimony-29933

From this link, I find several quotes from Paterno very telling...

After being told of the alleged abuse by his assistant...

I ordinarily would have called people right away, but it was a Saturday morning and I didn’t want to interfere with their weekends.
So I don’t know whether I did it Saturday or did it early the next week.
I’m not sure when, but I did it within the week.

After being told that something of a sexual nature was being done to a minor boy in the campus shower, he decides to wait a few days so he won't interfere with anyone's weekend!?!?

Mr. Paterno then told of his reporting of this to Tim Curley...

I believe I did it by phone. As I recall, I called him and I said, hey, we got a problem, and I explained the problem to him.
Why would he say, "we got a problem?" It sounds like he was more worried about the college and football program's image than anything else(jmho).

Also from Joe Paterno, when asked about if he reported the incident to anyone other than Tim Curley...

No, because I figured that Tim would handle it appropriately.
I have a tremendous amount of confidence in Mr. Curley and I thought he would look into it and handle it appropriately.

So, is it a fact or not that Joe Paterno also reported the incident to Gary Shultz?

 

[NYEmomma]

I have no personal opinion about JoePa's morality and whether he carried out his responsibilities as he should have... we don't know all the facts about the situation right now & honestly, probably never will. So I'm not placing any judgment on him yet.

But I disagree with lowering the flag for him only because I've always thought that it was solely for heads of state and the like.

I could be wrong on that assumption though.

 

[declansdad]

I completely agree with all you've posted, Sbell...and what I meant by things having changed is that if you look back during his lifetime there were times that something like the molestation of young boys was taken care of inside...honestly, there were times during his lifetime when the police would have felt that they had better things to do (not that I agree with that sentiment, but it was definitely there.) The molestation of boys did not come to the forefront nearly as quickly as the molestation of young girls because boys were seen as more able to protect themselves while girls were seen as innocent and helpless (yes, even during Paterno's lifetime.)

More spin...more spin....more spin

 

[JessicaR]

39 is not a few. But "facts" supporting a particular argument work both ways.

No sorry, facts are facts and when dealing with percentages - a few is appropriate.

 

[penn19]

No sorry, facts are facts and when dealing with percentages - a few is appropriate.

I would hardly consider almost 26% a few. Certainly not the majority, but more than a few.

 

[declansdad]

Well there's a lot of rug sweeping going on..

One thing that everyone on the anti Paterno side seems to ignore because it's inconvenient is that Joe reported the incident to the head of the Police Department that had jurisdiction in the case.
They are not "security guards" or "campus cops" they are a legitimate law enforcement agency and they had jurisdiction
At the time this occurred Gary Schultz was in charge of that department
We don't know exactly what Mike McQueary told Joe.
What's that leave us with?
Joe is told that something happened. He reports it to the person who is in charge of the police department. He knows there is an investigation. At some point nothing happens but he also knows it was looked in to by the head of the Police. At that point he could have pursued it farther but it's a far cry from what all of the folks wringing their hand "OMG he ignored it!" "He allowed it to happen" would have you believe.

Gary Schultz was a VP who had oversight over the university police. That is not the same as being a police official.

 

[JessicaR]

I would hardly consider almost 26% a few. Certainly not the majority, but more than a few.

The bottom line is 1/4 of people agree. 3/4 disagree.

 

[Hillbeans]

"I ordinarily would have called people right away, but it was a Saturday morning and I didn’t want to interfere with their weekends.
So I don’t know whether I did it Saturday or did it early the next week.
I’m not sure when, but I did it within the week."

A boy was being "fondled" in a sexual manner the night before and Joe didn't want to interrupt someone's freaking Saturday??? Wow, just wow.

Absolutely disgusting.

 

[WebmasterAlex]

Gary Schultz was a VP who had oversight over the university police. That is not the same as being a police official.

If the guy in charge of the department says he'll take care of it that's completely different than not reporting it at all or ignoring it.

I do believe this poll is inherently flawed
there should have been 2 no options
no- I don't believe Joe Paterno deserved it
no- I don't believe any football coach would deserve it

 

[sparklynails23]

Gary Schultz was a VP who had oversight over the university police. That is not the same as being a police official.

Paterno states in his Grand Jury testimony that he reported the incident to the athletic director, Curley. He said he was confident that Curley would handle it.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

So, even tho he reported it an knew nothing had been done about it, it's okay that he just let it get swept under the rug? Knowing other boys were going to be abused further down the line because this pig was still out there? AT THAT SCHOOL? Using the schools showers as his personal pimp pit?

How is he not accountable for letting these rapes continue? He may not have done the actual rapes, but he had a pretty good idea they were probably still ocurring and he couldn't be bothered.

Sorry, not in my book. No half flag for a man who'd let innocent children keep being molested..

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

Great man who did so much good for thousands of young men in his programs as well as the university.
Godspeed JoePA.

 

[Disney Doll]

If the guy in charge of the department says he'll take care of it that's completely different than not reporting it at all or ignoring it.

I do believe this poll is inherently flawed
there should have been 2 no options
no- I don't believe Joe Paterno deserved it
no- I don't believe any football coach would deserve it

So let me get this straight.

Your kid gets fondled.
You find out about it years later.
You also find out that several adults knew this was happening.
One of them, someone with a whole lot of "juice" reported it to "the guy in charge of the department".
However, nothing ever came of reporting it to "the guy in charge of the department"....at least not for YEARS afterward.
You'd be OK with none of the other adults who knew not saying anything at the time because someone had already reported it to "the guy in charge of the department", so that someone had done what he needed to do to protect your kid?

Sooo....You'd be OK with someone saying to you "Yes, I knew it was happening and I reported it to the guy in charge of the department. What else did you expect me to do?"

And you'd have no expectation that someone who stated to a grand jury that he knew this was happening, shouldn't have done something else, like call the police himself, call DCF himself, in order to protect YOUR child? The guy with probably the most power of anyone at Penn State and you seriously don't think he could make a call to someone and say "hey what's going on with that child molestation thing? I want something done and I want it done now or I go public".

Seriously???????

 

[Disney Doll]

First, it should be noted that he was the football coach. Also, it should be remembered that he found out a day or two after the fact that someone who is not affiliated with the football program had possibly abused a boy in the athletic facility. He reported this information to the two people who were legally be responsible (both for allowing Sandusky continued use of the facilities and for reporting to the authorities) the athletic director and the university president.

Next, lets remember that in 2002, the football team was just coming off two losing seasons. While it's true that people weren't clamoring for Coach Paterno's resignation, one can assume that he didn't have too much ability to threaten. Also, it's not really in his nature to make the kind of threats that you propose. He was more of a straight shooter, in your lane, kind of guy. He reported what he had heard to the people that were supposed to deal with it. I can't imagine that he would think that it would be necessary to threaten them at that time.

Finally, (this goes back to the 'times have changed' position) he didn't witness anything. He heard second hand after a day or two delay that someone outside of his sphere of responsibility might have abused a child who also had nothing to do with his sphere of responsibility. He might certainly have reasonably believed that he couldn't or shouldn't file a complaint about such actions. Instead, he took the reasonable (and legally appropriate) action of reporting what he had been told to those who were in positions of responsibility over the situation, the university president and the athletic director.

And when nothing happened, he should have gone further.
As should all involved have done.
I'm not giving them all a pass and blaming it solely on Coach Paterno. Unfortunately for him, he was the "face" of Penn State for most people.

A bunch of guys screwed up there to protect their preciouis football program and allowed boys to be molested.

Really, there's no gray here. Sorry.

 

[Disney Doll]

Coach Paterno didn't 'know or suspect' that a child had been raped because that is not what McQueary told him. As such, he had no expectation that Sandusky would be arrested for the rape of a child and wouldn't be surprised when Sandusky wasn't arrested for something that Coach Paterno knew nothing about.

Perhaps you might want to take a glance at the transcripts when Mr.Paterno spoke to the GJ. There, in his own words, he tells what he knew. That something of a sexual nature was happening to young boys.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

I mean, "molested", it DOES still mean the same thing now that it did since forever right? Because the molestation happened in the 60's or 70's doesn't mean it isn't as horrific to the victim as it does in the 80's, 90's, etc., right?

So, anyone knowing of a child being molested and/or raped should have been just as sickened, just as horrified, just as ready to save that kid as any sane human being now, right?

I'd just like to get some clarity on that, as some people seem to think that because this happened in some kind of dark age, loooooong ago and faaaar away, it's okay that a guy who knew kids were being raped in the shower just let it continue because he "let someone else know" and then forgot about it.

There is nothing, not one thing, alright with that and there is no excuse for his letting it continue. Just seeing Sandusky still on campus should have made his hackels rise and cause him to further investigate, that is if he'd been a real man...or let's even just say a real human being or a real father figure. Because a real father wouldn't let that slide, not for one stinkin' minute.

 

[LuvsDragonflies]

It's an "honor" to have the flags at half staff.

"Honorable" men don't let children continue to be sexually assaulted.

 

[WebmasterAlex]

So let me get this straight.

Your kid gets fondled.
You find out about it years later.
You also find out that several adults knew this was happening.
One of them reported it to "the guy in charge of the department".
However, nothing ever came of reporting it to "the guy in charge of the department"....at least not for YEARS afterward.
You'd be OK with none of the other adults who knew not saying anything at the time because someone had already reported it to "the guy in charge of the department", so that someone had done what he needed to do to protect your kid?

Sooo....You'd be OK with someone saying to you "Yes, I knew it was happening and I reported it to the guy in charge of the department. What else did you expect me to do?"

And you'd have no expectation that someone who stated to a grand jury thathe knew this was happening, shouldn't have done something else, like call the police himself, call DCF himself, in order to protect YOUR child?

Seriously???????

If he said "I reported it to the guy in charge of the Police Department and he said he would take care of it?

I would have enough perspective to put the bad people in order
Assuming the charges are proven:

Sandusky- a slow painful death is too good for this scumbag

McQueary- a 26 year old man who witnessed this and DID NOTHING? Complete scum

Curley and Schultz- the incident was reported to them, one of them was the athletic director so he was Sandusky's boss the other in charge of the Police
The real question here is what did McQueary tell them? If he told them what happened in detail OR if they did not ask the question then they can join the burn in hell crowd. What he told them though is NOT an established fact

Joe- he was told something, reported it to his boss and the head of the police department. Took the correct action but did not follow up enough. We do not know what he was told by Curley and Schultz in regard to the investigation.