Paula Deen racist?

[TeresaNJ]

For the millionth time, this is not about words. I am pretty sure I will never find myself in a position where I own a restaurant that makes its Black employees use a different entrance.

Proof? Or money-grubbing employee and lawyer?

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Proof? Or money-grubbing employee and lawyer?

I read the deposition. Her own words.

 

[Klismania]

Or money-grubbing employee and lawyer?

This.

I'm suspecting the employee knew she couldn't get much out of the brother as she could out of Paula so she went after both. All of her allegations appear to be toward the brother with Paula as the handy checkbook.

I've never seen PDs cooking show and only vaguely know who she is. I just came into this story today. I've also read the deposition (I don't need the media telling me what to think). From what I can see from an objective standpoint, this has less to do with racism or a hostile work environment and EVERYTHING to do with money.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

This.

I'm suspecting the employee knew she couldn't get much out of the brother as she could out of Paula so she went after both. All of her allegations appear to be toward the brother with Paula as the handy checkbook.

I've never seen PDs cooking show and only vaguely know who she is. I just came into this story today. I've also read the deposition (I don't need the media telling me what to think). From what I can see from an objective standpoint, this has less to do with racism or a hostile work environment and EVERYTHING to do with money.

Um, Paula is the owner of the restaurant.

 

[Wendy31]

I read the deposition. Her own words.

I think the claim that African Americans had to use separate bathrooms & entrances is in the claim, not Paula Deen's deposition. I could be wrong... I started skimming the deposition. But I know it's in Lisa Jackon's official claim.

Again, I absolutely think Bubba Hiers is a racist & probably often harassed Uncle Bubba's employees.

Paula Deen turned a blind eye, continually made excuses for her "baby brother," & was "too busy" to oversee operations. She was content to let "boys be boys" & expected Lisa Jackson to do the same.

Whether or not everything Lisa Jackson claims is true or not remains to be seen.

 

[pigletgirl]

I think the claim that African Americans had to use separate bathrooms & entrances is in the claim, not Paula Deen's deposition. I could be wrong... I started skimming the deposition. But I know it's in Lisa Jackon's official claim.

Again, I absolutely think Bubba Hiers is a racist & probably often harassed Uncle Bubba's employees.

Paula Deen turned a blind eye, continually made excuses for her "baby brother," & was "too busy" to oversee operations. She was content to let "boys be boys" & expected Lisa Jackson to do the same.

Whether or not everything Lisa Jackson claims is true or not remains to be seen.

Yes, Bubba sounds like the real problem. Paula is responsible but Bubba is in the wrong as well.

I am surprised this Lisa Jackson hasn't come forward publicly.

 

[Wendy31]

Um, Paula is the owner of the restaurant.

According to the deposition, both Paula Deen & her brother have controlling interest in Uncle Bubba's.

According to Paula Deen, one of the reasons Kyle Schumaker is "turning on them" is because, at the time the restaurant opened, also giving Kyle Schumaker a controlling percentage was discussed but ultimately decided against. She claims now, in looking back, Kyle Schumaker is jealous.

Apparently, according to the deposition, Kyle Schumaker is very "religious," & Paula Deen called him "judgemental" & the "moral police" at least a few times.

In the claim, Lisa Jackson was supposed to be given a raise at one point but, when she divorced her husband, Kyle Schumaker decided she no longer needed the raise & made some comment about divorced women.

 

[Klismania]

According to the deposition, both Paula Deen & her brother have controlling interest in Uncle Bubba's.

According to Paula Deen, one of the reasons Kyle Schumaker is "turning on them" is because, at the time the restaurant opened, also giving Kyle Schumaker a controlling percentage was discussed but ultimately decided against. She claims now, in looking back, Kyle Schumaker is jealous.

Apparently, according to the deposition, Kyle Schumaker is very "religious," & Paula Deen called him "judgemental" & the "moral police" at least a few times.

In the claim, Lisa Jackson was supposed to be given a raise at one point but, when she divorced her husband, Kyle Schumaker decided she no longer needed the raise & made some comment about divorced women.

Agreed. Also according to the deposition, at one time Lisa made more money in salary than Bubba, so she wasn't badly paid.

Here's the deposition in case anyone wants to take the time to read it.

http://cjo-cdn.com/sites/default/files/Deposition_filed_May2013_0.pdf

 

[DisneyLvr55]

Coming in on this really late, but in reading the article, and part of her interview (posted below), she kinda reminds me of that football coach that molested all those little boys. Like him, her total ignorance and disbelieve in what she did/said was wrong....

"Deen stumbled when she was asked if she thought uses of a racial slur were offensive if they were being said in a joke.

"That's kind of hard," Deen said. "Most jokes are about Jewish people, rednecks, black folks ... They usually target, though, a group. Gays or straights, black, redneck, you know, I just don't know - I just don't know what to say. I can't, myself, determine what offends another person.""


Having said that, I've been watching Foodnetwork for many years now. I watched her shows all the time, though in receint years, I have not watched her as much because, well, shes kinda annoying to listen to. Plus, unlike her, I don't have a deep frier right in my kitchen!

 

[Buckalew11]

It looks like not only did Food Network cancel Paula's contract, they also are pulling her shows. They have been playing Pioneer Woman in place of.

At least she cooks the same style (unhealthy) and she even has a contract with Land O'Lakes Butter!

I read Paula Deen's deposition & the official complaint filed by Lisa Jackson.

Although I'm southern & fond of southern cooking & traditions, I've never really held all that much love for Paula Deen.

From things I've read & heard, Paula Deen is not exactly like her TV persona.

There was a Woman's Expo in our city, & Paula Deen was one of the scheduled speakers/presenters. l didn't go, but my mom & sister did. The event was extremely crowded because everyone had come to see Paula, & Paula's "vibe" was just different. She was not as "friendly" or as "down-home chatty" as she makes herself appear on TV. She cancelled her book-signing, & there was some other "stuff" of which I can't remember all the details - I was pregnant w/ our younger DS at the time. LOL! Anyway, if I remember correctly, there were a lot of upset & disillusioned women in our city; a couple of angry letters to the editor were even written.

I know someone who sang at a benefit auction that was held at Uncle Bubba's restaurant. The benefit auction also happened to be on Paula & her husband's anniversary. So the person sang some kind of song in honor of & celebrating their anniversary while Paula & her husband danced together. After the song was over, Paula brusquely thanked the singer & quickly moved on.

Just little things like that...

Anyway, after having read the deposition & the complaint, I'm not so sure Paula Deen is a racist. Instead, I think she is turning a blind eye to her brother & has been for many years. I absolutely think her brother is a racist & is guilty of harassing his employees.

Paula is 7 years older than her brother & still calls him her "baby brother." In the deposition, she continually makes excuses for him. Apparently, at one point some years ago, he was in rehab for alcohol & cocaine addiction. She blamed that on his wife (who he divorced). She didn't know he was also addicted to cocaine until he went to rehab. He still drinks a lot, & she said something to the effect of "all the men in my life drink socially." In regards to the pornography on the computer, pics passed around at meetings, & the sexual jokes told, her replies basically say, "boys will be boys."

And I really think that's what it comes down to. She, as the official head of Paula Deen Enterprises & the two restaurants, didn't pay close attention to what was going on &, many times, turned a blind eye.

When Kyle Schumaker, her accountant or business manager (I'm not really sure what/who he is), came to her & said, "You need to do something about Bubba," she chalked it up to Kyle being "judgmental" & said he was the "moral police."

In her traditional Southern world, "boys will be boys," & she learned to play the game w/ the boys & expected Lisa Jackson to do the same. She turned a blind eye to the pornography & racial/sexual jokes & couldn't understand why Lisa Jackson wouldn't do the same.

Lisa Jackson was the first woman to have any kind of authority in any of Paula Deen's businesses. According to the complaint, the other men resented her & all had salaries higher than hers. At one point, there was talk of having Lisa Jackson manage or oversee both restaurants, & the comment was made that the manager of Lady & Sons & Paula Deen's sons would NEVER cooperate w/ a woman in a position of authority over them. The manager at Lady & Sons, who is reportedly a best friend of Jamie Deen (her son), is also apparently not a very nice man.

Just like when she came to our town & she was too busy & rushed to really meet w/ the women, she was "too busy" to read the report that the human resources consulting firm left for her & she was "too busy" to oversee the operations of Uncle Bubba's & Lady & Sons.

In fact, at the beginning of her deposition, she says something like, "It's all my fault. If I had worked more closely w/ Bubba & helped him more, this wouldn't have happened." She goes on to say that "running a restaurant is hard work" & she didn't help Bubba enough. It's almost like she realizes she wasn't there to "cover" for Bubba & blames herself. Again, she thinks of him as her "baby brother" & continually makes excuses for him & defends him.

The thing that is most disturbing to me, if it's true, is that African Americans were not allowed to use the front door at Uncle Bubba's & were not allowed to use the regular restrooms & had their own restroom facilities.

Regarding the N-word, she admitted she said it years ago - when a black robber held a gun to her face.

The "Southern Plantation" wedding was for Bubba's wedding in 2005, I think. After she spoke her "idea" out loud, she admitted it wouldn't go over very well. Was it a stupid idea? Yes! Was it a racist idea? Yes! But, in my mind, it's no different than a party at the Playboy mansion where the servers are in bikinis & bunny ears. Exploitation is exploitation regardless of skin color or gender. And is wrong.

Growing up in the south, have I heard the n-word? Yes.

A Brazil nut has another really bad nickname using the n-word. I remember, at Christmas time, my mom would have a bowl of mixed nuts setting out w/ a nut-cracker. My daddy told me what the Brazil nuts used to be called.

My daddy is from Georgia, & my mom is from Alabama, & I've never heard them refer to or call anybody the n-word. I also never heard my grandparents (the ones from Alabama & the ones from Georgia) refer to or call anybody the n-word. I'm sure, at some point, in their lives, they may have used the n-word - not in a derogatory way, but more in a story-telling or reference way, if that makes sense, especially my grandparents because of the time period. However, by the time I was born (1973), they all had realized it wasn't a nice word & had stopped using it in any connotation. I think it took a while for people (especially older people) to realize how inflammatory the word is & to stop using it, even in reference.

On the other hand, my FIL is racist,& I have heard him use the n-word. I once had to leave the room. After our kids were born, I told DH that I would NOT let our children be around him if he continued to use the n-word. My MIL must have said something to him, because, to my knowledge, he has never said the n-word in front of our kids.

I guess I said all that to say - just because someone is from the south doesn't make him/her a racist. Also, just because someone is older & from the south doesn't mean they haven't learned that the N-word is not a nice word.

So, despite Paula Deen's age & southern heritage, she should not still be referring to anyone as the N-word, & she should know & be aware that someone w/ her celebrity status is going to be scrutinized far more than your typical 66-year-old southerner. Age or heritage doesn't excuse racism.

That said, I do applaud her for being honest. I do not think she should be persecuted for something she said many years ago. I'm actually surprised that the Food Network was so to quick to dismiss her.

I'm not sure that there are many people her age that could say that they've never used the N-word in their lifetime.

Anyway, I think her downfall is going to be her lack of oversee of her businesses & her blind defense of her brother.

I do not know about the appearance thing but I agree with your thoughts. I think she "enables" her baby brother Bubba and overlooks things. I have a client who I overlook things with. He's about that age and has used the N word in my chair. In fact, he uses a lot of language I do know approve of. Truly, I never know what is going to come out of his mouth. He has that same type of Paula Deen silly, quirky, no filter personality. Most things are said out of "humor" than nastiness/hate. I can hear him saying those things about the the black man standing by the black board etc.

He's from Iowa. But has lived here for years. I could kick him out of my shop for saying the n word and things like it but I do not. I do not chatge him for his haircuts so it is not the money. For me, I know he is not saying it in hate, but from habit. I know he is not filled with hate because a black lady used to work in his office (a doctor!) and he treated her great and helped her get on and stay on her feet when her dh left her and her children. I know what is in his heart and it is not hate. Doesn't make him saying that word any easier to swallow though. And, when he says it, I do call him on it. I call him on several things during a haircut, lol. Scold, shame him, and tell him those are not acceptable words. Sometimes I think it makes him say more, lol, but hey, *I'm* the one with the sharp scissors and the hot curling iron nearby!

But, we often do overlook things about people we like/love. Paula has learned a valuable, costly lesson for sure. Hindsight is 20/20.

This.

I'm suspecting the employee knew she couldn't get much out of the brother as she could out of Paula so she went after both. All of her allegations appear to be toward the brother with Paula as the handy checkbook.

I've never seen PDs cooking show and only vaguely know who she is. I just came into this story today. I've also read the deposition (I don't need the media telling me what to think). From what I can see from an objective standpoint, this has less to do with racism or a hostile work environment and EVERYTHING to do with money.

I think the claim that African Americans had to use separate bathrooms & entrances is in the claim, not Paula Deen's deposition. I could be wrong... I started skimming the deposition. But I know it's in Lisa Jackon's official claim.

Again, I absolutely think Bubba Hiers is a racist & probably often harassed Uncle Bubba's employees.

Paula Deen turned a blind eye, continually made excuses for her "baby brother," & was "too busy" to oversee operations. She was content to let "boys be boys" & expected Lisa Jackson to do the same.

Whether or not everything Lisa Jackson claims is true or not remains to be seen.

I just said the other day in another thread, that ol' thought(boys will be boys) is just not a good mindset.

If the separate bathrooms at Uncle Bubba's is true, well, that just makes me sick. And angry. I cannot believe she let that go on in a restaurant she co-owned.

 

[Klismania]

If the separate bathrooms at Uncle Bubba's is true, well, that just makes me sick. And angry. I cannot believe she let that go on in a restaurant she co-owned.

If she even KNEW about it. She's said time and again that after the first six weeks of opening the restaurant years ago she hasn't had time to oversee it. I haven't read the allegations yet but this one makes me want to find the actual filing (rather than reading it second-hand from news reports).

 

[Wendy31]

You know, in thinking about it, I think Paula Deen has been surrounded by some not-very-nice men her whole life & has been a part of the "good ole boys" culture for a lot of years.

Her 1st husband was not a good man by all accounts; her brother is not a great guy either.

And, yet, she survived &, even thrived, & made quite a success for herself & her 2 sons - selling that cute, down-homey Southern lifestyle.

Because she grew up in the culture & learned how to make it work to her advantage (admittedly, the way many southern women do), she expected Lisa Jackson to do the same & really doesn't understand the problems Lisa Jackson was having. She couldn't understand why Lisa Jackson couldn't do the same thing that Paula Deen herself had done for so many years.

She turned a blind eye to what was going on, continually made excuses for & defended her "baby brother," & learned how to "massage" any problems away.

In both her deposition & in the claim, Paula's "massaging" problems away was referenced.

I've seen her on her show w/ both African American men & women, & she's never struck me as racist in her attitudes to African Americans. But I don't think she ever got past the mentality of the old South - whether she wants to admit it or not.

 

[Klismania]

According to the depo there is truth to the separate bathroom issue:

Q: Okay. Now, when you were actively involved in the restaurants, was there a rule about one group of employees using one entrance and another group of employees using the back entrance?

A: No.

Q: Okay.

A: I always came through the kitchen door.

Q: Okay. What about the restrooms, were they --

A:We -- I used the restroom that was off of our little gift shop and cash register. We had an employee's bathroom. We had two bathrooms back there for the employees and that's the ones that we all used.

Q: At Uncle Bubba's, do you know whether the front of the house employees were allowed to use the customer restroom?

A: I don't know. I don't know why they would when it -- when our bathrooms were right there. But I'll tell you, there's nothing more distasteful than being in a restroom and seeing a cook come out covered in flour and buttermilk and all of that. I mean, you just -- that -- those bathrooms are reserved for your paying guest, not for us working in the kitchen.

I happen to agree with her that it IS distasteful when kitchen staff are using the guest bathrooms. It sounds like that's why she had two extra bathrooms put in for the staff to use.

 

[Wendy31]

If she even KNEW about it. She's said time and again that after the first six weeks of opening the restaurant years ago she hasn't had time to oversee it. I haven't read the allegations yet but this one makes me want to find the actual filing (rather than reading it second-hand from news reports).

Right.

From reading both the deposition & the official claim, I'm not sure Paula Deen knew everything that was going on. After 6 weeks, she was very rarely at Uncle Bubba's & probably never saw any of the day-to-day operations.

And she strikes me as the type of person that only hears what she wants to hear & is "too busy" for the details. In her deposition, she said she didn't even know how to send or receive any emails.

Whenever Kyle Schumaker said anything to her, she just assumed he was being the "moral police" & made excuses.

 

[Wendy31]

According to the depo there is truth to the separate bathroom issue:


I happen to agree with her that it IS distasteful when kitchen staff are using the guest bathrooms. It sounds like that's why she had two extra bathrooms put in for the staff to use.

I agree. There's nothing wrong w/ a "front stage" area & a "back stage" area. Walt Disney would approve. LOL!

And, if that's true, I don't think there's anything wrong w/ requiring the staff (ALL the staff) to use the employee restrooms - and even a separate entrance.

Now, did Bubba Hiers let white employees sometimes use the guests' restrooms & main entrances & not allow African Americans to do the same? Who knows...

Or maybe when a white employee used the guests' restrooms or main entrance, he said nothing, but, when an African American did so, he/she was "reminded" of the policy.

 

[Klismania]

I'm halfway through the complaint now: http://www.atlawblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Jackson-v.-Deen-et-al.-Complaint.pdf

Bubba Hiers sounds like the worst kind of pig and, if true, he should rightfully lose his shirt.

I also can fully appreciate the family dynamic described: some people will NEVER be let go because they're family and if the employee doesn't like it then employee can find another place to work. Maddening and unfair, but this happens in ANY family-run business.

But if she did equal work and didn't get vacation time, bonuses or other forms of compensation that were offered to other male employees who WEREN'T family members, then I think she has a solid case (if the allegations are true).

 

[Buckalew11]

I'm witnessing a situation here now where a woman has been given authority over all men in her workplace. Every one of these men are super nice people and have always been kind and friendly etc., etc., etc. BUT when this woman (super nice woman) was put as their boss, they are having trouble with that. It has been hard to watch and has certainly changed my feelings about a few of these men. As a woman, one of three girls, with a strong independent mother, this is something I am very unfamiliar with. That said, I can believe this Ms. Jackson had trouble suddenly being over the men.

I think the dynamics of this case is very, very complicated. The right and wrongs are probably cut and dry but all the other stuff thrown in sure makes it rough--sort of like a dysfunctional family.

 

[robinb]

I read the complaint and Paula Deen's deposition. I have never been a big Paula Deen fan because her type of "Southern Charm" rubs me the wrong way. It has always seemed more false than folksy to me.

First of all, Bubba Hiers is (as someone says upthread) a pig. He is the primary player in Lisa Jackson's complaint. It seems that Deen, as a co-owner of the restaurant and owner of deep pockets, had a very peripheral role. I believe the story of Bubba's wedding and the servers was a way to bring her more actively into the complaint but really does not address the day-to-day harassment that Jackson alleges. Did Deen use the N-Word at that wedding meeting back in 2010? I think she probably did while relating the "old south" idea that she and Bubba came up with. It seems from the complaint that is that way that Bubba spoke and maybe she was relating his idea along with his horrible term "little N-words". Even is she used the term recently, I'm not sure if that alone makes her a racist. Maybe she is and maybe she isn't. None of us know her heart.

I do agree with much of Wendy31's assessment. Racist comments aside, Deen brought this all down on herself by empowering her brother to be a pig while running the restaurant they co-owned. In addition, she seems to have surrounded herself with men with very old-fashioned attitudes ... from the blatant racism and sexism shown by Bubba, to the moralistic sexist values of Shumacher, to the "Good Old Boys Club" atmosphere at many of the Deen restaurants including her flagship restaurant. According to the complaint, Ms Jackson threw up red flags left and right and no one, including Deen's corporate counsel James Gerard, did anything about them. Apparently Deen was not as successful at dealing with the men in her life as she thought she was.

 

[AustinTink]

I wonder how much Paula will love her "baby brother" now that he has essentially ruined her career?

 

[Nancyg56]

I wonder how much Paula will love her "baby brother" now that he has essentially ruined her career?

He did not ruin her career. She did. She was and is in charge of her own life. If she chose to excuse his behavior, if she chose to abdicate her responsibility in her corporation, if she chose to allow bad behavior...well that is on her.

If she had made a conscientious effort to oversee her own business and had disassociated herself from his business, she would not be in the pickle that she is in now.