Part-Timing In Florida

[dekraut]

First of all, I am not sure this thread belongs here, so please adjust as needed. I just didn't see any folder that seemed a match.

I loved Disney a a kid, visited many times, and now have the chance to bring my kids. We've been twice since 2014 and are planning another trip for Jan 2017. Our kids are at the prime Disney age (what isn't the prime Disney age, right?) and we are planning for Disney to be our primary vacations for a while, as our whole family adores it.

Recently I was considering DVC, which I don't think is for us, by the numbers, and saw a comment someone made about it being a better financial option to simply buy a house in FL. After laughing it off at first, I spoke with my dad about it, who said he wouldn't mind having a place in Florida to get away from the winter weather a bit. An idea was spawned of a business agreement, which works really well in our family, to consider purchasing a house or condo in an area equidistant from Orlando and a coast. I expect they would rather be on the gulf side towards Tampa, but we hadn't gotten that far yet.

Without boring you with all the math, it might be doable for us for many different reasons including: mortgage interest deductions, significantly discounted FL resident annual passes (which from what I've found only require a utility bill for part-time residents), possible rentals periodically to family or close friends (not interested in strangers). In addition, my wife is a stay-at-home mom, and I am a teacher, so we would have all summer available to use the property as we wish, knowing the heat and crowds are worse during summer, but would also give us a chance to visit during long school breaks, when we've never visited before.

I am looking for advice from anyone else who has done/considered this regarding areas, costs, ideas, things to consider, etc. I know this isn't an original idea, so I know many of you may be able to offer thoughts.

Thanks for any help.

 

[hiroMYhero]

First of all, I am not sure this thread belongs here, so please adjust as needed. I just didn't see any folder that seemed a match.

I loved Disney a a kid, visited many times, and now have the chance to bring my kids. We've been twice since 2014 and are planning another trip for Jan 2017. Our kids are at the prime Disney age (what isn't the prime Disney age, right?) and we are planning for Disney to be our primary vacations for a while, as our whole family adores it.

Recently I was considering DVC, which I don't think is for us, by the numbers, and saw a comment someone made about it being a better financial option to simply buy a house in FL. After laughing it off at first, I spoke with my dad about it, who said he wouldn't mind having a place in Florida to get away from the winter weather a bit. An idea was spawned of a business agreement, which works really well in our family, to consider property/house/condo in an area equidistant from Orlando and a coast. I expect they would rather be on the gulf side towards Tampa, but we hadn't gotten that far yet.

Without boring you with all the math, it might be doable for us for many different reasons including: mortgage interest deductions, significantly discounted FL resident annual passes (which from what I've found only require a utility bill for part-time residents), possible rentals periodically to family or close friends (not interested in strangers). In addition, my wife is a stay-at-home mom, and I am a teacher, so we would have all summer available to use the property as we wish, knowing the heat and crowds are worse during summer, but would also give us a chance to visit during long school breaks, when we've never visited before.

I am looking for advice from anyone else who has done/considered this regarding areas, costs, ideas, things to consider, etc. I know this isn't an original idea, so I know many of you may be able to offer thoughts.

Thanks for any help.

Merging you to the Orlando Area board where others have done the same as you and can offer advice.

 

[NinaBella]

Your dad wants to be a Snow Bird! We have tons. First narrow down an area. I think Auburndale, Lakeland, or Plant City areas might fit what you are looking for. Tampa, Clearwater, St Petersburg just means traffic congestion and higher price homes and insurance.

Another option would be Ocala area. If it was just your dad, there is an extremely popular 55+ town called "The Villages" that is an easy drive to Orlando. South of Tampa is another area 55+ like but also has some younger families called "Sun City Center."

 

[NH-to-FL]

We've done it and I will be glad to pass along what I have learned. We bought a vacation home in Davenport. We saw the property values drop during the recession and when they started creeping up we decided that if we ever wanted to buy a potential retirement place in FL, that was the time to do it. We decided we wanted to be close to Disney. We also decided to buy where short term rentals were allowed so we could rent it out to help offset the costs. Of course we also made quite a few visits ourselves. We rented it out through a property management company for a few years until I retired last fall. Last winter was our first snowbird winter. We really enjoyed it!

Do not underestimate the carrying cost of keeping a second home. For us initially the costs were high as we had renters in and out. High utility bills and wear and tear costs added up. We were always fixing or replacing something. It sounds like you won't be renting so that will save you wear and tear and peace of mind. Don't forget to budget for standard equipment replacement if you buy an older property. Our place is now 12 years old and over the last few years we had to replace the washer, dryer, dishwasher, pool pump, and AC unit. The hot water heater and refrigerator are on watch. The pool heater failed at the end of the winter and will need to be replaced this fall.

And there are costs to keep a house going even when empty. Do you want a pool? Plan for monthly pool maintenance to keep it going while you are not there. Ours is $95 a month. A pool also bumps up the electric bill. Yard maintenance is another. In our case the HOA fee covers cutting the grass and keeping the shrubbery trimmed. Don't forget water to keep the sprinklers going during the dry months. Then there is the cable, phone, internet, and security system. We use a package from the cable company. They offer a seasonal turnoff for the cable but since we visit periodically we don't take advantage of it.

I can't help with possible areas between Disney and Tampa. I have heard that Winter Haven is a nice area but it is a bit closer to Disney than Tampa. Is your father looking for a 55+ type community? Or are you thinking about an area where the whole family might possibly live? Obviously there are a lot of retirement communities in FL for you to chose from. And there are plenty of nice residential developments. We noticed last year that the building of new developments has started up again and that prices continue to creep upwards. New homes in our area are being built with what I consider upgrades, granite counters, stainless appliances, etc., with higher prices.

When you start looking for a place make sure you carefully assess the amount of space you will need, especially with your extended family. We ended up choosing a 4 bedroom, three bath home. Since it was designed as a "vacation villa" it has two masters, each with an attached bath. We use the second master as our guest room and one of the small bedrooms as a storage room. Remember, typically no basements in Florida. Most folks use the garage. We wanted to have our car in the garage.

We did a lot of work with Zillow and Google Earth before contacting a real estate agent. We had a very good idea about the area we wanted to look at and the type of property we wanted. The agent showed us a number of homes but we ended up getting the property we had identified through Zillow. But the agent was able to help us get it for a very good price.

Finally, be careful about how much you plan to save with FL resident passes. The increased savings come with increased blackout dates. If you plan to visit during school vacations that might drive your choice of pass. Check the tiers of blackout dates carefully.

I hope this information has been helpful. We are really enjoying our Florida property. In fact we are headed down there next week for a short "vacation".

If you have any specific questions I would be happy to try and answer them.

 

[BeerMe]

We have looked at this in the past, but it doesn't work out for us for many different reasons. We go down every two years for two - three months and can find enough timeshares to cover that.

 

[mich1073]

Another options would to buy resale timeshare points in something like Wyndham as there are ALOT of timeshare options in Orlando. Alot cheaper than buying new, heck sometimes you can get them free here: http://tugbbs.com/forums/ Get enough for a few weeks a year and do the math and see it works for you. You do not have maintenance/Utility bills that way either.

And if you can not use all the points, then you can rent them out. Just a thought.

 

[Kat-n-Mouse]

We just did it! Same situation and we built our home this year and just closed over the 4th of July. I've been coming to Disney for 40 years, since I was kid. We're now up to 3 generations of Disney fanatics. We have stayed in on-site hotels, off-site hotels, condos and in big vacation rental villas. (There are benefits for all types of lodging and we have had great trips for all stays.) We just sent our youngest off to college and decided that now was the time. We won't be down there full time, but with my big family and our love of Disney we'll be there whenever we can. We are renting it out to offset the cost.

 

[dekraut]

Is your father looking for a 55+ type community?

I don't know if we have gotten that far yet. Since we have visited FL so much, he was thinking even about a condo, rather than a town/single family house. I don't believe that my M&D or our family would ever retire to Florida.

The increased savings come with increased blackout dates.

I looked through that - We would probably go with the platinum that has no blackout dates. Right now we are paying about $1600 for our tickets for 6 days, for annual passes it would be around $2700. More up front, but then we can go anytime, including those school breaks and all summer.

I hope this information has been helpful.

Super helpful! Thank you!

If you have any specific questions I would be happy to try and answer them.

I appreciate that. As we gather more info, I might take you up on that.

We just sent our youngest off to college

We are a ways away from that, with out DS11 and DD6. But their ages are precisely why we are thinking about it now. They have THOROUGHLY enjoyed their first two trips and we see ourselves making WDW our primary vacation spot for a while.

 

[HopperFan]

Okay I'll jump in. For over a decade we watched a beach area for us. I always wanted a house - space for us all to be there and a small garden. DH wanted to walk to the beach. DD & DSs wanted amenities. We looked for years, closely watching market and two years ago while renting a place on beach the family pressed me about condo vs house. Aside from my wants, I worried about that monthly COA fee. I crunched the numbers ........ well even with COA fee the cost was less for a condo than house. Many COAs include some great items. We finally bit the bullet because prices are on the rise ..... aside from great amenities on the beach, we got outdoor pool and hot tub, indoor pool and hot tub, fitness center, wet and dry saunas, tennis courts, racquetball courts, shuffleboard, playground, 24 hour manned security, cable, internet, phone, po box, water, trash, fully maintained outside, management company to watch over everything and more. We love having pools we don't have to maintain. We ended up with 3 bedroom (I got space) town home with screened porch and allowed to plant in front and back where we have small garden (I got garden), grass backing up to man made small pond with fountain and waterfall. I feel like it's a tropic resort. Our whole family plus some can go and there is much for everyone to do. When we are not there we know everything is taken care of and that is huge. If you are not going to rent or use rental company, I would highly suggest you look at condos so everything is taken care of for you and you have amenities you can use without taking care of or worrying about while you are gone. SECURITY. But be sure to find out the COA's financial status.

Shop areas, prices and taxes. It's most important you love the area you are in. It's all about location. We also found closing costs high compared to our home state due to the long list of fees they charge --- while no state income tax they get you every other way. Due to all that our COA covers we have a mortgage, taxes, insurance and electric bill. We set aside extra each month for repairs or replacements. Being a condo with units on both sides, we found that even when gone and A/C barely running the unit doesn't get too hot while gone and our A/C bills are not bad. Florida HOT July was $80 and we were there 10 days running it.

Our biggest shock ......... mortgage for a condo. We were pre-approved by our past mortgage company and ready to go. WELL ...... apparently by federal law certain condo complexes can not be approved for regular home mortgages if they are involved with any rental programs that provide "hotel" like amenities such as housekeeping or short term rentals. Those would be considered "condotels".... Florida and Nevada triggered this stipulation about three years ago. All rentals are considered investment properties and all kinds of issues come in play. We had to go through a local bank which gave us one of their portfolio mortgages. It was a bit crazy starting from square one at the point where we had a contract but it worked out. They told us more than half paid cash, but like you the tax benefits were better for us to mortgage for a few years. But I am still happy we have a condo.

At end of month we will go for 10 days but I will drive to Orlando (1.5 hours) for a few nights with DS to go to parks leaving DH at beach. Good luck. I said it was exciting and terrifying at the same time but happy we bit the bullet. And with you having summers off - YES!

http://time.com/money/2847882/buying-a-condo-mortgages-cost-more/

http://www.investopedia.com/university/condo-buyers-guide/condo-buyers-guide9.asp

 

[NinaBella]

Okay I'll jump in. For over a decade we watched a beach area for us. I always wanted a house - space for us all to be there and a small garden. DH wanted to walk to the beach. DD & DSs wanted amenities. We looked for years, closely watching market and two years ago while renting a place on beach the family pressed me about condo vs house. Aside from my wants, I worried about that monthly COA fee. I crunched the numbers ........ well even with COA fee the cost was less for a condo than house. Many COAs include some great items. We finally bit the bullet because prices are on the rise ..... aside from great amenities on the beach, we got outdoor pool and hot tub, indoor pool and hot tub, fitness center, wet and dry saunas, tennis courts, racquetball courts, shuffleboard, playground, 24 hour manned security, cable, internet, phone, po box, water, trash, fully maintained outside, management company to watch over everything and more. We love having pools we don't have to maintain. We ended up with 3 bedroom (I got space) town home with screened porch and allowed to plant in front and back where we have small garden (I got garden), grass backing up to man made small pond with fountain and waterfall. I feel like it's a tropic resort. Our whole family plus some can go and there is much for everyone to do. When we are not there we know everything is taken care of and that is huge. If you are not going to rent or use rental company, I would highly suggest you look at condos so everything is taken care of for you and you have amenities you can use without taking care of or worrying about while you are gone. SECURITY. But be sure to find out the COA's financial status.

Shop areas, prices and taxes. It's most important you love the area you are in. It's all about location. We also found closing costs high compared to our home state due to the long list of fees they charge --- while no state income tax they get you every other way. Due to all that our COA covers we have a mortgage, taxes, insurance and electric bill. We set aside extra each month for repairs or replacements. Being a condo with units on both sides, we found that even when gone and A/C barely running the unit doesn't get too hot while gone and our A/C bills are not bad. Florida HOT July was $80 and we were there 10 days running it.

Our biggest shock ......... mortgage for a condo. We were pre-approved by our past mortgage company and ready to go. WELL ...... apparently by federal law certain condo complexes can not be approved for regular home mortgages if they are involved with any rental programs that provide "hotel" like amenities such as housekeeping or short term rentals. Those would be considered "condotels".... Florida and Nevada triggered this stipulation about three years ago. All rentals are considered investment properties and all kinds of issues come in play. We had to go through a local bank which gave us one of their portfolio mortgages. It was a bit crazy starting from square one at the point where we had a contract but it worked out. They told us more than half paid cash, but like you the tax benefits were better for us to mortgage for a few years. But I am still happy we have a condo.

At end of month we will go for 10 days but I will drive to Orlando (1.5 hours) for a few nights with DS to go to parks leaving DH at beach. Good luck. I said it was exciting and terrifying at the same time but happy we bit the bullet. And with you having summers off - YES!

http://time.com/money/2847882/buying-a-condo-mortgages-cost-more/

http://www.investopedia.com/university/condo-buyers-guide/condo-buyers-guide9.asp

The only negative about a condo is the COA can assess fees normally up to $10,000 whenever they see fit such as to build, repair, rennovate, new roof, etc. I have heard of many having to take out a second mortgage just to pay the required assessment fees. Other fees that may increase each year are maintenance fees. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of condos, but there are fees to consider before purchasing. Home insurance on a condo is typically less because a HO-6 (condo contract) if for "drywall in" not the exterior of the building, so there can be some savings there. Of course always look at the master condo association insurance contract to verify who is responsible for windows, doors, patios, and other structures associated with the unit. Some master policies covers windows, some do not.

Personally, after my kids are all out the house, I am considering a condo for my DH and I since we want to downsize and eliminate yard work, etc. That or a 55+ gated mobile home community in Florida like in Zephyrhills. LOL. They have some really NICE mobile home gated communities where they maintain the property and yard of each home. Very clean and well maintained with strict HOA. If you haven't seen them them they are an affordable option. https://www.mhvillage.com/Communities/MobileHomeParks.php?City=Zephyrhills&State=FL
I have a few more years to go to decide what we want to do. I would love a condo near the beach, but the idea of tourist traffic is a real turn off. A condo in The Villages might be another possibility, but I would have to work from home or stop working completely to move to The Villages.

 

[dekraut]

You guys are awesome with the info.... so much to consider. Thank you very much for responding with your thoughts and concerns!

 

[HopperFan]

The only negative about a condo is the COA can assess fees normally up to $10,000 whenever they see fit such as to build, repair, rennovate, new roof, etc. I have heard of many having to take out a second mortgage just to pay the required assessment fees. Other fees that may increase each year are maintenance fees. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of condos, but there are fees to consider before purchasing. Home insurance on a condo is typically less because a HO-6 (condo contract) if for "drywall in" not the exterior of the building, so there can be some savings there. Of course always look at the master condo association insurance contract to verify who is responsible for windows, doors, patios, and other structures associated with the unit. Some master policies covers windows, some do not.

Personally, after my kids are all out the house, I am considering a condo for my DH and I since we want to downsize and eliminate yard work, etc. That or a 55+ gated mobile home community in Florida like in Zephyrhills. LOL. They have some really NICE mobile home gated communities where they maintain the property and yard of each home. Very clean and well maintained with strict HOA. If you haven't seen them them they are an affordable option. https://www.mhvillage.com/Communities/MobileHomeParks.php?City=Zephyrhills&State=FL
I have a few more years to go to decide what we want to do. I would love a condo near the beach, but the idea of tourist traffic is a real turn off. A condo in The Villages might be another possibility, but I would have to work from home or stop working completely to move to The Villages.

Yes, I totally agree with fees, which is why we did our homework on the complexes financials, past history of fees, past assessments and what current fees cost. There is no way we could have a 3 bedroom home in FL and maintain it for less than what we are paying. My DM lives in a high rise in Ft Lauderdale who pays double for less amenities but that is related to a high rise maintenance. They got hit with a hurricane, out for several years and were assessed a large fee. It was unavoidable but had they been in a house with the same damage it would have been more. It did result in many being unable to afford because this complex does not allow any rental. While less likely, always be aware of amenity and community property condition. Look closely at everything. A community next to us (all single homes) had a major breech to their pool and everyone was assessed a large amount of money to rebuild.

Given OP has no plans to rent it out, and it may sit empty fall and spring - we do the same - security and maintenance was a huge factor in our decision to go this route. There are even houses in our complex, so a community of mixed offerings would be good too as everyone is able to use amenities and take advantage of security/management but homes would have a lower POA fee and not be assessed should the need be for the condo buildings.

Our main goal was to be on the beach, WDW being 1.5 hours away was a plus. We are also located where the beach is not crowded, high rises are not allowed, we feel a real sense of community but not far is lots of things for us to do and explore. I hear you - I fought the condo thing for 8 years - I've always been anti condos period - but when I crunched numbers and added other issues, it made sense. NOW if we were to move there for retirement and making it our primary home - I would have liked to have a house.

We wanted to make sure we could rent ours down the road if circumstances changed, such as a huge assessment that was too much for us. We didn't want selling it be our only option. (some communities do not allow short term rental or sublet) In a well run and stable community huge assessments also come with POA votes (which you as an owner vote for) as the result of storm damage, gross failure (like pool wall) or willingly vote for like my folks had - after severe damage from hurricane the insurance would cover like windows (they are all glass) but the community voted to spend the extra for hurricane strength windows causing large assessment. But it is something to be aware of that is possible in all communities whether they are homes or condos, but mostly condos.

To OP - do your homework and read up on lots. LOCATION, types of communities, mortgages options, taxes, insurance requirements and once you narrow dig in to community specifics even including construction - we only wanted concrete block. The market in FL can be volatile and right around Orlando is the worse. There are areas where prices are increasing at a good rate and areas where they are not. You don't want to invest because it was a great price only to be stuck in a dead market area. (We had looked in to Orlando when DD was working at WDW since so much was for sale).

GOOD LUCK

 

[RabFlmom]

I am confused......How can a part timer get Florida resident tickets? Doesn't every adult have to have a Florida driver's license(and you have to give up the driver's license from where you move from to get one) and another proof that they actually live here? http://allears.net/pl/florid.htm

 

[HopperFan]

I am confused......How can a part timer get Florida resident tickets? Doesn't every adult have to have a Florida driver's license(and you have to give up the driver's license from where you move from to get one) and another proof that they actually live here? http://allears.net/pl/florid.htm

Disney has options
https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/florida-residents/validation-requirements/

Universal is more rigid
https://www.universalorlando.com/Theme-Park-Tickets/Florida-Resident-Tickets.aspx

 

[NH-to-FL]

I am confused......How can a part timer get Florida resident tickets?

As HopperFan notes, Disney is flexible, allowing us part timers to use other proof of Florida residence/ownership. Thankfully we had two utility bills, one in DW's name and one in mine. We actually took a number of the listed documents with us but the CM at the ticket counter smiled and said one would be enough. Now that we are living in Florida a good part of the year I do not feel bad about using Disney's flexibility.

 

[dekraut]

Yes. The utility bill would be how we would do it, if we choose to purchase something. I really don't feel that is cheating the system (and I am a unapologetic rule follower) because we are certainly paying money into the FL economy as a homeowner and therefore should qualify for the discounted tickets.

I would really love to do this, but there are so many factors to consider so that it isn't a stupid decision. Hopefully we might make it work with my folks so that we can all benefit from spending some time in FL and getting our kids to Disney a few more times per year.

 

[HopperFan]

As HopperFan notes, Disney is flexible, allowing us part timers to use other proof of Florida residence/ownership. Thankfully we had two utility bills, one in DW's name and one in mine. We actually took a number of the listed documents with us but the CM at the ticket counter smiled and said one would be enough. Now that we are living in Florida a good part of the year I do not feel bad about using Disney's flexibility.

Yes. The utility bill would be how we would do it, if we choose to purchase something. I really don't feel that is cheating the system (and I am a unapologetic rule follower) because we are certainly paying money into the FL economy as a homeowner and therefore should qualify for the discounted tickets.

I would really love to do this, but there are so many factors to consider so that it isn't a stupid decision. Hopefully we might make it work with my folks so that we can all benefit from spending some time in FL and getting our kids to Disney a few more times per year.

Def not cheating any system. If I buy a home getting a mortgage at a local FL bank, pay real estate taxes, purchase FL homeowner's insurance, pay Florida Power and Light, Pay AT&T, pay local contractors, shop locally, pay our POA for substantial maintenance which in turn employes many people both full time in the complex and all subcontracted work, spend more money in restaurants than we do at our primary home ... we are contributing to the local economy substantially. Note that my taxes are higher than everyone who lives there fulltime because I do not qualify for homestead exemptions, my children do not go to school there but I pay school taxes ...... Disney giving us a small break on tickets is good for them and me ... given I'm still booking hotels and everything else.

 

[NH-to-FL]

I would really love to do this, but there are so many factors to consider so that it isn't a stupid decision. Hopefully we might make it work with my folks so that we can all benefit from spending some time in FL and getting our kids to Disney a few more times per year.

Yes, it is an important decision. Take your time and make sure the numbers will work.

It sounds like you are being careful not to let your emotions and excitement of a life near Disney take over your thinking.

 

[osopecoso]

Few pointers.....

Stay away from the 55+ communities. Resale value is not good and you are typically restricted to children staying there for extended periods of time (ie. can't stay there all summer). Condo's also have a horrible resale value and typically you have to make a down payment of 25-30%. We live in south Florida but also have a small home in Celebration (parents purchased it when I was going to college in Orlando). We only let close friends stay there so upkeep is not bad. Our quarterly HOA takes care of everything outside, we don't have a pool but do have a community pool, internet is about $60 month and do not have cable (use Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime). Overall is costs us about 400 month to maintain. I would stick to a home for sure.

 

[aleksandr]

The past few years we've spent 5-6 weeks in the spring in Florida. We have some horrible Birch allergies in the family, and find that spending late April through May and into the first week of June in Florida is a perfect remedy! The first year we stayed in a small apartment in Daytona Beach. Honestly, it was quite depressing. Daytona is a dead community during that time frame, in-between the 500 in February and the actual Summer season.

The next 2 years we rented in Davenport. Davenport is a perfect location, in my opinion. You are 20 minutes away from Disney, yet far enough away that it feels like you are living your day to day life, not living as a tourist. This is really important to differentiate that we are not on an extended vacation. Yet, on the other hand you are close enough for when you want that Disney magic.

I'd like to think we will buy our own place in the next few years in or around Davenport. A couple things worry me though--first, real estate is creeping up steadily in price. Second, many of the existing houses and developments are getting on in their years. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, after 12 years they've had to replace nearly all of their major appliances. The houses we've rented were nice enough rentals, and I'd stay again, but as a home-owner, I'd worry they were getting long in the tooth. There's lots of new development going on as well, but I also have concerns about the techniques and speed in which they put up these houses.