Parking fee for renting points?

[Rjw615]

If you are a non DVC owner renting points for a stay, will you be charged parking?

Sorry if this has been asked and answered elsewhere. Thank you.

 

[disneynutz]

No.

Bill

 

[Dean Marino]

No.

Bill

True - but just me? I wish they would.

All personal opinion - I'm not necessarily right, no one else is necessarily wrong.

 

[Sharene0724]

True - but just me? I wish they would.

Well, since the room is paid for by points which someone paid maintenance on, which then subsequently funds parking lot maintenance based those points, should they be charged? I don't think they should be charged, and I am not sure that Disney can per some of the other threads around dues and what they fund.

 

[Dean Marino]

Well, since the room is paid for by points which someone paid maintenance on, which then subsequently funds parking lot maintenance based those points, should they be charged? I don't think they should be charged, and I am not sure that Disney can per some of the other threads around dues and what they fund.

Let me explain. Today? If you rent points from a third party DVC OWNER? No parking fee.

Now - let's see what WDW, who owns Points, is doing with THEIR Point Rentals. These would be the DVC properties that you see offered on the main Web Site . Just Points that happen to be owned by Disney .

BANG - Parking fee.

Just askin.... INDEPENDENT DVC Renter? No fee. WDW? Fee.

Has someone put themselves at a competitive disadvantage? Does someone have a death wish? .

 

[Sharene0724]

Let me explain. Today? If you rent points from a third party DVC OWNER? No parking fee.

Now - let's see what WDW, who owns Points, is doing with THEIR Point Rentals. These would be the DVC properties that you see offered on the main Web Site . Just Points that happen to be owned by Disney .

BANG - Parking fee.

Just askin.... INDEPENDENT DVC Renter? No fee. WDW? Fee.

Has someone put themselves at a competitive disadvantage? Does someone have a death wish? .

Ha! Good point! I will be interested to see if Disney deals with this or not.

 

[drusba]

It is an interesting point raised by Dean Marino that has not been answered yet and it is actually a complex issue. "Disney," the one that is the WDW resort company that has adopted the parking fees, actually does not own any DVC points. The actual owner is DVD, the timeshare company, which along with DVCMC (the managing company for the Association), and BVTC (the company that controls trade-outs, either by DVC members at 7 months out to another DVC resort or trading out to a Disney hotel or some other timeshare, and trade-ins by owners of other timeshares trading into DVC), are specifically declared to be separate companies from any of the other Disney companies operating at WDW.

"Disney," the resort company, also does not own the DVC parking lots except to the possible extent that it might have retained an ownership interest solely for servicing Disney hotel (non-DVC) operations. The DVC members and DVD (for its share of ownership) are the owners of the DVC parking lots to the extent such ownership relates to the DVC resorts. I have not checked all the plans but for SSR and OKW, that includes all parking lots, likewise for BWV, but limited to the one near the DVC resort at VGF. It would appear that the only legal basis upon which Disney, the resort company, can charge a parking fee for any of those lots is that it is including the charge within the room rental price it charges for guests of the hotels (not DVC resorts).

It is DVD, not Disney, which gets to rent DVC rooms within its percentage of ownership. It is DVCMC that has the only right to rent DVC rooms during the 60 day breakage period, as provided in its contract with the member Association. It is BVTC that does all the the steps involved for DVC members to trade out to non-DVC resorts and for owners of other resorts to trade-in to DVC, as provided in its contract with the Association.

A DVC owner, if he felt like it, could probably include a parking fee charge for the applicable DVC parking lot in any rental. Thus, possibly DVD could do so for the rentals it does and it would be entitled to any such sums charged for parking because it is one of the owners of the parking lots. DVCMC could possibly do so for any breakage period rentals under the theory that it gets all of the owners rights, including in the parking lots, when doing such rentals, but any such fees would be bundled with all other rental proceeds to be distributed as required by the DVCMC and BVTC agreements: first as a 2.5% set off against the members' dues at the applicable resort, then to pay all of BVTC's costs plus 5% of those costs, and then everything left goes to DVCMC.

But the large hole in the above is that Disney, the resort company, appears to have no right to charge a parking fee in relation to any reservation at a DVC resort for the simple reason that it is not an entity that has a right to even rent such rooms, except to the extent that DVD or DVCMC gives it that right, with the proceeds for such parking lot charges to go to DVD or DVCMC, not to Disney, the resort company (although obviously in the end all profits flow up to the main Disney company that owns all the Disney companies). Likewise, Disney, the resort company, would appear to have no right to charge parking fees to those who trade-in from other timeshares to DVC resorts unless BVTC gives it that right.

What I do not know is what DVD, DVCMC, or BVTC have done in relation to Disney's desire to charge parking fees (and I doubt BVTC could even do so for exchanges), i.e., I am not aware of any agreement between them and the Disney resort company to charge such fees for their rentals. I also do not know if Disney's lawyers thought through all the issues involved before approving Disney's legal positions in charging parking fees, including the advantage members who rent could gain if DVD or DVCMC did agree to charge such fees for their rentals.

 

[ziravan]

It is an interesting point raised by Dean Marino that has not been answered yet and it is actually a complex issue. "Disney," the one that is the WDW resort company that has adopted the parking fees, actually does not own any DVC points. The actual owner is DVD, the timeshare company, which along with DVCMC (the managing company for the Association), and BVTC (the company that controls trade-outs, either by DVC members at 7 months out to another DVC resort or trading out to a Disney hotel or some other timeshare, and trade-ins by owners of other timeshares trading into DVC), are specifically declared to be separate companies from any of the other Disney companies operating at WDW.

"Disney," the resort company, also does not own the DVC parking lots except to the possible extent that it might have retained an ownership interest solely for servicing Disney hotel (non-DVC) operations. The DVC members and DVD (for its share of ownership) are the owners of the DVC parking lots to the extent such ownership relates to the DVC resorts. I have not checked all the plans but for SSR and OKW, that includes all parking lots, likewise for BWV, but limited to the one near the DVC resort at VGF. It would appear that the only legal basis upon which Disney, the resort company, can charge a parking fee for any of those lots is that it is including the charge within the room rental price it charges for guests of the hotels (not DVC resorts).

It is DVD, not Disney, which gets to rent DVC rooms within its percentage of ownership. It is DVCMC that has the only right to rent DVC rooms during the 60 day breakage period, as provided in its contract with the member Association. It is BVTC that does all the the steps involved for DVC members to trade out to non-DVC resorts and for owners of other resorts to trade-in to DVC, as provided in its contract with the Association.

A DVC owner, if he felt like it, could probably include a parking fee charge for the applicable DVC parking lot in any rental. Thus, possibly DVD could do so for the rentals it does and it would be entitled to any such sums charged for parking because it is one of the owners of the parking lots. DVCMC could possibly do so for any breakage period rentals under the theory that it gets all of the owners rights, including in the parking lots, when doing such rentals, but any such fees would be bundled with all other rental proceeds to be distributed as required by the DVCMC and BVTC agreements: first as a 2.5% set off against the members' dues at the applicable resort, then to pay all of BVTC's costs plus 5% of those costs, and then everything left goes to DVCMC.

But the large hole in the above is that Disney, the resort company, appears to have no right to charge a parking fee in relation to any reservation at a DVC resort for the simple reason that it is not an entity that has a right to even rent such rooms, except to the extent that DVD or DVCMC gives it that right, with the proceeds for such parking lot charges to go to DVD or DVCMC, not to Disney, the resort company (although obviously in the end all profits flow up to the main Disney company that owns all the Disney companies). Likewise, Disney, the resort company, would appear to have no right to charge parking fees to those who trade-in from other timeshares to DVC resorts unless BVTC gives it that right.

What I do not know is what DVD, DVCMC, or BVTC have done in relation to Disney's desire to charge parking fees (and I doubt BVTC could even do so for exchanges), i.e., I am not aware of any agreement between them and the Disney resort company to charge such fees for their rentals. I also do not know if Disney's lawyers thought through all the issues involved before approving Disney's legal positions in charging parking fees, including the advantage members who rent could gain if DVD or DVCMC did agree to charge such fees for their rentals.

I looked over the Poly Master Declaration. Both the DVC and the main parking lots fall within the declaration and so both parking lots at Poly are common elements owned by DVC members.

 

[Dean Marino]

I looked over the Poly Master Declaration. Both the DVC and the main parking lots fall within the declaration and so both parking lots at Poly are common elements owned by DVC members.

Ehhhhhh - I THINK you meant just "common areas". If DVC Members OWNED them? We could kick everyone else out .
Now - "common areas"? Yup we are already paying for our share of upkeep. If it's in the CONTRACT, we can't be billed twice for the same element .

 

[ziravan]

Ehhhhhh - I THINK you meant just "common areas". If DVC Members OWNED them? We could kick everyone else out .
Now - "common areas"? Yup we are already paying for our share of upkeep. If it's in the CONTRACT, we can't be billed twice for the same element .

Drusba is a lawyer, but I’m pretty sure the parking lots are common elements that DVC members own in direct proportion to their ownership of the resort. (You might only own three grains of asphalt “dirt”, but you’re an undivided interested owner with a sea of other owners.)

This is expressed in the POS as a non-exclusive easement for DVC owners, their guests and leasees.

You have a permanent and non-revocable easement to the parking areas. DVC carved out two exceptions in the Poly POS, 1. The right to designate/assign parking areas, and 2. The right to charge, by direct fee or by dues as a group, for valet parking.

And. Because your easement is non-exclusive, you have to share. Because you have to share, there’s no guarantee that you’ll have a spot.

But. WDW has to maintain enough parking for customary use and I believe that’s defined in several state and local laws. So, it’s not like they can make all but 2 spots valet or anything like that. The law is designed from experience to prevent cheating. Florida Condo laws intend that owners can’t be nickel and dimed out of using their real property.

 

[Dean Marino]

Now, I have no idea if what I'm about to suggest is doable... Again, DVC owners, we never take a car anyway - not affected....

So - contract gives OWNERS an interest in the common area Parking lots....
Anything in the CONTRACT (as written when executed) that forbids OWNERS from renting out their Common Area interests? Which would include PARKING?

Just askin - as we seem to have more knowledgeable legal folks around .

 

[ziravan]

Now, I have no idea if what I'm about to suggest is doable... Again, DVC owners, we never take a car anyway - not affected....

So - contract gives OWNERS an interest in the common area Parking lots....
Anything in the CONTRACT (as written when executed) that forbids OWNERS from renting out their Common Area interests? Which would include PARKING?

Just askin - as we seem to have more knowledgeable legal folks around .

I’ve cited it a few times, but the Florida Condo Law specifically grants owners the right to sublet their interests in the use of the real property (including its common elements) to guests and leasees.

The law explains that the owner would have right of access as a landlord, but to the extent a leasee has use of the common elements, it’s in the stead of owners. In other words, you aren’t granted the right to use Storm a Long Bay just because you have a renter at BCV; only the renter would have that right, in the owner’s stead. Same with parking.

Now, can owners rent their parking space? Certainly not without being booked into a room; common elements are tied to the ownership use. I would think that being able to “rent” the parking space would be tied as well. You could. But only to the extent your leasee is also on the reservation. I’m not sure I’d give a stranger access to my room in order to make 10 bucks a night while I’m there.